First 9mm for me and my wife

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whalerman said:
I gotta ask. Folks are expressing concern about safety and Glocks. A couple facts. Firstly, no firearm has even approached Glock in numbers issued to police forces. More cops carry Glocks than anything else. This has been the case since the revolver days. This is a fact. Secondly, no one cares about liability more than police departments. Along these same lines is the fact that police administrators care more about liability than any other people. Citys and countys and states and agencies, who issue these Glocks, care more about liability than anyone else. If these guns were not safe, if they weren't defensible in courtrooms, if training programs were not consistant with recruits of ALL KINDS OF FIREARMS BACKGROUNDS, they would not be issued in the numbers they are.

Please don't dwell on the safety issue as it applies to Glock pistols. It is a non issue.

If they don't fit or you don't like them, fine. But let's not make up stuff.
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Making up what?.....That Glocks or their operators seem to have a higher inherent risk of accidentally or negligently discharging their sidearm? There's nothing made up about that!

Many of LEO's have Glock leg also.....Sure you can say, because Glocks are very reliable they were awarded the majority of police contracts but many other sidearms are also very reliable and safer. The Glock is used in most police departments based on low bid contracts. Like most other large business contracts, politics are also involved.

It's also getting old hearing about the very difficult task of disengaging a manual safety :rolleyes:......Please, if this is such a difficult task for some individuals, maybe they would be best to stick with revolvers or pepper spray. If one can't be trained to swipe a manual safety on the draw, are they the type of individual who should be trusted to the life and death decisions that are required of LEO's?
 
I started with Glocks and after picking up an M&P 9fs , my wife said she liked shooting it better. I think the ability to change the backstraps makes it easier to "custom fit" between my hand and hers , making it more comfortable for her to shoot. She even enjoys shooting the 45 FS .
 
Im a fan of the 1911 but I picked up a Glock 17 LEO refurb for a good price as a spare pistol.My wife carries a Kahr cw9 and her range gun is a 1911 which she loves,that said she has been shooting the Glock 17 a lot lately and has now claimed it for herself.
last night she walked out on the deck,I have a 6x11 hanging steel at 25 yds.and she hit it 17 for 17. I complain about the grip angle,Shes 5'2" and a buck 15 and thinks its perfect.
 
I'm copying this reply from another forum just to get your opinions:

"I would suggest considering either a Sig P6 or a Sig P229. They are DA/SA with Decocker (making them very safe for new shooters), of medium size and weight, very reliable, accurate and fun soft shooting pistols."

David E- Can you weigh in on this? It seems like it's the opposite of what you're saying about DA/SA.

Can I get a safe AND easy gun? Or does it have to be one or the other?
 
shooter_shooter said:
David E- Can you weigh in on this? It seems like it's the opposite of what you're saying about DA/SA.

Can I get a safe AND easy gun? Or does it have to be one or the other?
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DA/SA......Is not that hard to learn. My wife mastered (in no time at all) her Beretta FS84 that is DA/SA and has every safety mechanism known to mankind.

The 84 is one of the safest pistols ever made. She is efficient & deadly with the darn thing. She shot the best of any at her CCW course and made some of the men look like the little ladies. The instructor was very impressed with the handling and accuracy she displayed. Most of the men just :rolleyes: when they saw her target. LOL

Herself and I feel comfortable with the additional safety features when she's carrying, with the kids. The likely hood that this type of action is going to have an accidental discharge is slim to none, until she wants it to. :)

I know you're not planning on using this as CCW but my point is just that, some people can't chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. I'd suspect these are same people who will forget to swipe their safety when needed and most likely the type that shoots their self in the foot and/or leg.
 
a DA/SA gun with decocker is safe when it is decocked, but once the gun has been fired the action of the slide cycling will cock the firing mechanism, and the operator must engage the decocking lever to return the gun to a safe state.

glocks and other guns have what's called a "DAO-like" trigger, where the trigger pull is much longer and slightly heavier than a single action trigger, but the gun "automatically" returns to this "dao type" trigger as soon as you release the trigger forward, no decocking operation necessary.

the "DAO-like" trigger is not as safe as a true DA triggerstroke, because the DA trigger is heavier and longer, but a true DAO gun is hard to use in "combat shooting" because the trigger makes fast accurate shooting more difficult. the "DAO-like" trigger is a compromise which hopes to be 'safe enough' and 'shootable enough', without the need of a user operation to render the gun safe again after firing.

I'm of two minds, I think the DAO-like trigger is a good choice of trigger, but it is my preferance that there be some additional accomodation for safe handling (I like the HK LEM hammer, the XD grip safety, and even a thumb safety would be ok by me)
 
Nice explanation of the DAO trigger but with that said, flipping the thumb safety back to safe after shooting a DA/SA, should be as common as hitting "end" on ones cell/cordless phone after their conversation. :scrutiny:
 
shooter_shooter said:
I've read here that Browning Hi-Power, Sig226, Glock17/19, Beretta92, PX4, S.A. XD9, CZ75, CZPO1, H&K USP seem to be among the most popular but not sure what would be right for us.
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At this point you and the Mrs. are going to have to wrap your mitts around a few different models and see which one fits the two of you best (which will likely require a bit of tradeoff since I doubt you both wear the same size gloves).

Of the guns you listed there, you really can't go wrong with any of them so it'll all come down to which ones you like best.

You have a good list going there but theoretical discussion time is over (now the fun begins :D).
 
It's time to back up a bit here?

"I would suggest considering either a Sig P6 or a Sig P229. They are DA/SA with Decocker (making them very safe for new shooters), of medium size and weight, very reliable, accurate and fun soft shooting pistols."
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Ouch-since this is your first semi-auto, I'm sure a lot of folks in here were trying to save you some money, since we know your wants/needs/tastes are going to change-a P229 is getting into some serious money for a first gun for "the wife and me"! At's why I recommended the SIG SP2022 @ $495 (but it may not fit your wife's hand)-I have a P229R, and got a deal on mine for $650 new-I wouldn't pay what some folks do for new ones!
As previously stated, there's a LOT good to be said 'bout a gun you can easily practice dry firing (requires no slide manipulation for each trigger pull, etc).

I think it's time to back up a bit-you said you were thinking 'bout competition, so if you're going to try to get this one gun to fit the parameters you listed, you're first going to have to determine what type of competition you're interested in, see which guns are approved, and work you way back from that.
You next limiting parameter is going to be the wife-will the grip fit, can she operate the trigger/slide, etc?

It seems like it's the opposite of what you're saying about DA/SA.
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As others have stated, how "complex" a gun is all depends on the person. Heck, I haven't run across any firearm I couldn't operate, but don't ask me to run a sewing machine (bet your wife can).
Now which one is more complicated to operate-a gun or a sewing machine?
How many of you highly trained "operators" in here do your own sewing? :D

It all depends on how serious the little lady is 'bout learning to shoot-if she's serious 'bout it, she probably won't have any problems with DA/SA, manual safeties, etc.

BTW-the suggestion for the 3rd generation Smith's ain't bad-I have a 4013TSW, but for some reason S&W decided to reverse the operation of the safety from the accepted norm of a 1911 style-you have to swipe UP instead of DOWN to disengage the thumb safety.
That's the only thing I really HATE 'bout the gun! :banghead:
 
At this point, possible competition is a long way off so it's not really a factor right now. I just want to concentrate on the range...
 
Don't "pick" a gun until you've tried a lot of different make/models "on" for fit. Your first should be what points naturally for each of you, not what someone on the 'net points you to.

Take the others up on their offer to let you and your wife try on as many different handguns as possible. You may find a CZ fits you like an extension of your hand instead of a Glock (or the Glock does instead of a 1911 or ....). You may find that something else fits her.
 
At this point, possible competition is a long way off so it's not really a factor right now. I just want to concentrate on the range...
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Probably a wise decision-that opens up the possibilities a lot.

Now that competition is off the table, I almost hate to mention 'em, but since the wife's going to now be the primary factor, you might also consider some Taurus models? Taurus has a lot of interesting stuff out there-I broke down and bought a PT145-thumb safety, double strike capability, etc (you can get 'em in 9mm). Darn nice little gun-comfortable, lots of features, and pretty good capacity for it's size in the 45-you'd have to do your own research on the 9mm.

Reason I almost hate to mention 'em is it appears Taurus is having a real bad time with QC these days, and I wouldn't put 'em in the same league as SIGs, XDs, Glocks, etc. I tell folks the only thing I don't like 'bout my Millennium Pro is it's made by Taurus! :uhoh:

Ya gotta also consider resale value, since there's a good chance you're going to sell/trade your first semi-auto as you and your wife move up the learning curve.
 
A Glock is a great beginner gun it is fairly accurate easy to care for and used do pretty good on resale when and if you want to climb ladder to something nicer they are a bit clunky if your wife has small hands. I saw that someone mentioned FNP they have the different size grip inserts for a more custom fit. Also very nice pistol for the money.
 
Please no more choices! My head is already spinning ;) I need to learn more about the options I've got already: S&W M&P in 9mm, CZ P01, Glock 17 or 19, S.A. XD-m, Sig 2022.

For instance, if I'm comparing apples and oranges in this list that would be helpful to know.
 
I'll throw in a vote for either a CZ or a Glock 19. I'm pretty sure you said you don't have a gun shop close, but it would be worthwhile to take even a moderately long drive to a decent gun shop to hold a few of these guns and see how they work out. Not the same as shooting, but I bet you could eliminate 3 or 4 right away.

Frankly, the safety issue is much less of a mechanical one and much more of a "gray-matter-between-the-ears" one. Get the gun you like best and make sure you understand general firearm rules as well as how your gun works and act appropriately.

Also, go ahead and plan on buying one for you and one for wife...that's what always seems to happen anyway. :D
 
shooter_shooter said:
Please no more choices! My head is already spinning ;) I need to learn more about the options I've got already: S&W M&P in 9mm, CZ P01, Glock 17 or 19, S.A. XD-m, Sig 2022.

For instance, if I'm comparing apples and oranges in this list that would be helpful to know.
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the M&P, Glocks, and XDm are all similar polymer framed striker fired guns with "DAO-like" triggers

the SIG 2022 is a Polymer framed DA/SA w/ Decocker, the CZ P01 is an alloy framed DA/SA w/ Decocker.

so you have 3 apples and 2 oranges. all guns you mentioned are well regarded firearms from quality producers.
 
OK, we're starting to hit gold here...this makes it much easier for me to understand the guns types and compare properly.
 
Shooter_Shooter, hello fellow New Jersian. Keep in mind that in our great state we can only purchase one handgun a month and in some townships the wait to get a purchase permit may exceed a year (met a guy who's township took 1yr 1month, and only got it after a lawyer got involved). My point is, whatever gun you get, you're going to be stuck with for a while.

You said you live in North NJ, I'd go to the Bullethole in Belleville to feel out the guns (but I wouldn't buy from there because the people there are complete *******s).

Finally, I'd go with a Glock and not look back. No matter what people say about them being unsafe, it's completely untrue. Your main "safety" should be between your ears. If you practice safe handling of a gun, you'll never have a problem with them. Mechanically, they're safer than the XDs because the firing pin is not under tension until you start pulling the trigger.

Just my $.02
 
The Bullet Hole is the last range I used but have not shopped there. Unfortunately they don't rent. I recently browsed at another shop and was kinda surprised at how unhelpful one of the guys behind the counter was. Zero salesmanship. Not very promising for face-to-face help. I'll be ready with more concrete info/questions next time...
 
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