First Purchase - Smith vs. Glock?

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tomrkba said:
The problem is new shooters do not know what they need. They are typically given some very basic advice and told to go buy a gun ("Get yourself a 45!"). If they're lucky, they'll come here and get told to get an instructor and shoot a few rental guns. The actual problem is that running a gun for self-defense involves quite a few sub-skills. A gun that fits the hand in the store may not be quite right for rapid fire. Shooting skills also allow the shooter to overcome fit up to a point, with the limits being proper trigger finger placement and proper grip. The result is that a new shooter won't be able to properly evaluate a gun and just has to guess. Fortunately, most handguns made today have grips and lengths of pull that fit the majority of hands. The gun may not be optimal, but sufficient training will overcome such deficiencies.

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Good point. I don't know any advanced pistol shooter that calls their technique or pistol comfortable. Modern thumbs forward grip stances aren't eay to master and really took alot of energy out of me while I was learning them. Not comfortable.

My best pistols feel terrible in my hands, but out shoot all my comfy guns big time. My 1911's feel edgy and awkward, and my Glocks feel like a brick with a pinchy trigger. But either of those flat out walk all over my comfy Ruger P95 or HK USP. The USP is probally the best feeling gun I've ever shot, but a Glock will run circles around it.
 
Buying a gLoCk as a first pistol is NOT something I would ever recommend. Two main reasons.

1. No safety, I always recommend a first pistol with a safety. Good gun handling skills come with practice.

2. The grip angle is so different than any other auto pistol, it will make it difficult for you to transition to something better in the future. Good shooting skills come with practice, practicing with that grip angle will make other semi's seem really different.

I'd go with a DA/SA pistol within your budget that includes some sort of manual safety feature until you've trained some more.
 
I wouldn't get hung up on the fact that a Glock has no external safety.

The only thing about a Glock that I don't like in the hands of a beginner is that you must squeeze the trigger before you take it apart. I don't have a reference point, but negligent discharges with a Glock are, I am certain, often times done just prior to the takedown process.
 
Looks... Smith
Functionality... Glock

The Glock would be better for carry. Both are VERY shootable. Recoil is a piece of cake and they are very similarly accurate.

Another factor for me is that with the Glock, I can reach the slide release with my right thumb (shoot right-handed) while I can't with the Smith, even with the smallest backstrap. The Smith is better for bigger hands. Are yours smaller, bigger, average?
 
I would say I have average sized hands. I've shot the M&P twice; once in 9mm and once in .40. From a size perspective, I think it fits me ok.
 
Which backstrap did it have mounted?

I went through all three shooting repeated drills with a shot timer to see which worked best with my hands/grip...it wasn't the one that felt the most comfortable when being held statically
 
Thank you tomrkba. I've taken 2 basic pistol courses and look forward to more advanced training later this year as funds allow. Are there any books that you or others can recommend for self study?
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There are many. It's difficult to describe what to look for in a book because only you know where you "are" in your shooting skills. A point shooting book may be what you need at this time.

My recommendation: look for books on mindset in fighting. Gun games are a different story, but can be good for teaching a particular skill or skills. No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan has mindset throughout the book (though it focuses upon revolvers as the tool). Jim Cirillo's Guns, Bullets and Gunfights is another excellent book that includes what happens to the brain and mind while fighting. I like revolvers as a training tool because mastering the double action trigger will make you a better shooter.

Take a look at In the Gravest Extreme by Mas Ayoob. The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry is a good introduction to carry.

You should also look for books on self-defense law. Dial 911 and Die! by Richard Stevens covers laws, but is dated. Some of it will be out of date and you'll need to review your state's laws.

Two of my favorite books are Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality by Louis Awerbuck.

Green Eyes and Black Rifles by Kyle Lamb is excellent, but it's about running the AR-15 rifle.

I also like Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford.

You should now become picky about your training. If you're going to carry revolvers, you need to go to a revolver specialist. Training with an instructor who knows semi-autos may not know the old revolver tricks you need. Stay with known names such as Tom Givens at Rangemaster, Craig Douglas (shivworks.com), Ayoob (who knows revolvers too), Awerbuck, and so on. There are many others who are competent, so don't discount them especially if they come to your area. Do your research. The general progression should be:

1) Basic combat skills: handling, drawing the handgun, reloads, cover/concealment, barricades, problem resolution, basic movement
2) More advanced skills: longer distance, increased speed, extreme close quarters intro, simulations/scenarios, force on force training, PRE-ATTACK INDICATORS.
3) Combatives and close quarters. The majority of citizen self-defense situations occur at very short distances. You MUST know WHEN to go for the gun and when NOT to go for the gun. Craig Douglas' ECQC course will teach you these skills. I'm sure there are other instructors who teaches this stuff. Douglas' experience comes from fighting with dealers and low lifes on a daily basis. He has a certain worldview (the one that involves his face being ground into concrete by criminal scum) that is essential in teaching this stuff. You'll know what I mean after Bad Guy #1 knocks you down and you get "stabbed" with a rubber knife in the back by Bad Guy #2.
4) Movement. This is a difficult one, but you need to know how to shoot while moving forward, back and laterally...all at full speed. This is why you need point shooting. There are several instructors who teach this but you'll have to look around.
 
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Smith...simply because once you get a Glock, you will never want to try any other type of firearm.
 
Thanks so much tomrkba for the reading and training suggestions! I will begin to act on this ASAP.

There's a training company called Tactical Defense Institute in West Union, OH. They seem to have a good reputation. Have you heard of them?

Bob
 
I'm primarily a revolver shooter, so I can't get used to the reverse-curved Glock grip. The S&W fits so well, points naturally, and doesn't buck as much as other semi-auto guns/cartridges I've fired.

I'd buy another in a heartbeat! Mine's a .45 ACP and it's a perfect truck-gun for me. I just got a 14 round mag and it provides formidable firepower for that use, but seems too bulky for carrying.
 
If you are comparing MP9 full size then compare it to G17 instead. They are both great pistols. Like, I am sure others have suggested, shoot both and see which work better for you.
 
You don't need to pull the trigger on the M&P (unlike the Glock) to field strip it, however the Deactivation Lever needs to be pushed down before you disengage the Slide Stop...the slide lock is what you pull up on when you field strip a Glock
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I'll rephrase: place the pistol in slide lock, take pistol out of slide lock. Leaving an empty magazine in for the initial slidelock would accomplish the same. Yes, you can use the Deactivation Lever but a simple pull of the trigger will free the slide, at least on all of mine. Saves the whole "tools necessary" arguement.
 
I have a M&P 40c and a Glock 30SF. Between the two, they feel really similar when shooting. Both have good ergos for me (that's one of the things the SF sold me on), the 40c feels great all around.

I personally like the slide serrations better on the 40c, easier to grip and rack. Both of mine, fit and finish are excellent. Triggers seem to be nearly identical, but I don't have a lot of time with the 30SF and haven't shot them side by side for a really good comparison. Both are excellent shooters and groups equally well.

All things being equal for me, I'd go with the M&P if I were to only have one, it was quite a bit cheaper. Of course I believe the 30SF is a more expensive gun than say the Glock 27, which would be more inline with the M&P.

Then again, I really like my Ruger SR9c as well, it probably having a little better trigger feel, to me anyway. Since I mentioned the Ruger, of the three, I least like the serrations on the Ruger's slide the most.

All of them have more than adeqaute sights. I'd probably still choose the M&P over the Ruger as well.
 
I'll rephrase: place the pistol in slide lock, take pistol out of slide lock. Leaving an empty magazine in for the initial slidelock would accomplish the same. Yes, you can use the Deactivation Lever but a simple pull of the trigger will free the slide, at least on all of mine. Saves the whole "tools necessary" arguement.
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Ditto. In fact, my CCW instructor field striped both a Glock and an M&P, doing both by the book (using the tool on the M&P), then showed what he normally does, and that is to just pull the trigger as he does with his Glock.
 
Yes, you can use the Deactivation Lever but a simple pull of the trigger will free the slide, at least on all of mine. Saves the whole "tools necessary" arguement.
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I just went to try mine and I just learned something...never knew that before. I can also see why the factory wouldn't want folks to do it that way, but it is interesting to know that it can be done.

I've always field stripped my M&P the way it is described in the manual and in YouTube video clips
 
My cousin was faced with the very same decision not too long ago. He asked me to come with him to the LGS and who doesnt love going there? His intent was to leave with a G19 but were seeing some of the Glock shortage aswell and he did not want to wait. So he browsed for a bit and narrowed it down to the M&P9c and an Glock 26. He figured the 26 would be better for conceal carry anyway even though it wasnt the one he really wanted (and he had shot the 19 already and liked it) I advised him to wait and shoot the 26 (i love my 19 but hated shooting the 26) first but he really wanted to make his purchase that day. So he asked me what I would do and I said the M&P9c.. Lifetime warranty, felt better than 26, and looks better.
He did end up getting the m&p and he loves it. He still wants a 19 and says hes already starting saving. And you can do the same. Good luck!
 
Glock, Smith, Sig, HK, XD, they're all the same.

Get the one that feels better in your hands. Any modern auto from a reputable name will have a tendency to be reliable, so just go to the store, fondle them, and get it.
 
For my first purchase, I've narrowed the field to the Smith M&P 9mm (full size) and the Glock G19 (Gen 4). Can the more seasoned shooters share their opinions on accuracy, "shootability", etc.?
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They are both quality guns and either should provide you with good service. The only objective difference is that the slightly smaller G19 is going to be easier to CCW than the full sized M&P. Other than that, you should just handle both guns, and shoot them if you can, and based on that make a personal decision as to which "fits" you better.
 
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