First Rifle, a few thoughts

[mattpnc]

Hello all,

I've never owned a weapon before. Shot a few 9mm, .40, .22, etc. with friends and family, nothing special. Lately, ownership grows more desirable. In the past two months, I've been to a few gun shows with a friend who knows a bit about weapons, but acknowledges that his opinions are, well, just that. He's owned a few, but currently has an old 1943 Swedish Mauser; he's into older stuff.

And I'm into newer stuff. I think I'd like something semi-auto, but still very reliable. Reliability is important to me. I intend to maintain whatever weapon I own properly in order to insure longevity as much as I can, but I'd not want the reliability of any weapon I'd purchase hanging in the balance of a regular, rigorous, meticulous maintenance routine. I'd also like something 5.56 or 7.62, but .308's alright (I'll get to that). And a folding stock. And a pistol grip. I'm a newbie, these are just preferences, and if they're in your opinion impertinent, tell me, please.

After doing a little research both on the internet and in person at shops and shows, I've found a few things I'd like to own:

> I'm partial to Ruger. Just from perusing stocks and showcases, I can smell their quality. If I got a pistol, it's most likely be a Ruger. My other buddy owns an SR-22, and he likes it much. Rugers, from what I've heard, are quite reliable. Plus, they're American-made, a nice bonus. The Mini-14 looks fun and simple enough.

> FN FAL: This is one durable, dependable weapon. I've heard stories about, the what's-it-called, "ol' dirty" or something. Seen pictures too. People all over the internet hock AKs like their history and reputation composite some golden edifice that obligates their and my noble veneration. Meh. So AKs are generally pretty reliable, I've heard contrary anecdotes, but hey, the FAL is my AK. This is why I referenced .308 Win.

> H&K G3/416: Firstly, H&K. Great weapons manufacturer. G3's reputation and service record, the 416's contender-status in the SCAR competition too. Found both at a show for a bit over $500 each. Seemed without imperfection, though that'd vary by specimen. If I see a nice G36 for the right price, that would work nicely too.

There were a few others, but those were the ones that've stood out. One guy I know said an SKS would be a good option for me. What I've seen seems okay, but hasn't piqued my interest as the aforementioned. Any other ideas and opinions are welcome. Just thought I'd expand my knowledge base through a rich venue such as this one.

EDIT: trying to delete and repost in Rifles subforum, but am tired and can't find a delete function.

 

[belercous]

Plan on doing much shooting? Check ammo prices first, .308 ammo isn't inexpensive.

 

[Mr.Blue]

As a first rifle, the 5.56 is a great choice. That said, I much prefer the AR to the Mini. Ruger makes an AR, but it is a piston driven design and thus more expensive.

Make sure that the mini-14 can fire the 5.56. For some reason I think I remember that itcould only shoot the .223. I could be wrong.

 

[Konstantin835]

Sounds like your on the right track, a mini 14 should be very reliable, I haven't had one but as far as I know Ruger fixed most of the problems it once had. The FAL and G3 are nice and reliable but as already mentioned, .308 is not cheap. The HK 416 sounds good, I don't really know much about it but I think its just a piston AR. For $500 though, no way. Maybe for a .22 replica. I doubt you will find a G36 seeing as how HK is not very fond of selling to civilians. If your after reliability, and ammo price is a factor, the AK is always there. It seems like you don't particularly like it but I've never heard of one being unreliable.

 

[Lateck]

My first rifle was a Mini-14 and the Mini is still my most sentimental.
It's an easy rifle to shoot and it will take a lot of abuse...
Unless you get the Target rifle they will take 5.56/.223 all day.

Good Luck and have fun,

Lateck,

 

[mortablunt]

Of the list of guns you want, the only one that I know is good and will not be problematic to afford or locate will be the FAL. You didn't mention which Ruger you wanted. A lot of other guys here will say that you ought to get a 22. I didn't learn to shoot on a 22; I first shot a 12 Ga shotgun and I was later taught how to shoot on a 7.62x39 AK. The ammo costs will be much heavier if you use anything other than 22LR. The 7.62x39 I learned to shoot on wasn't too expensive to run. Now if I were starting out and trying to just plink huge numbers of bullets, I wouldn't be able to afford at the AK ammo.

 

[wlewisiii]

My gut feeling is that you're someone having fun. So be it.

That said, anyone who looks at this thread for guidance, I'd suggest a nice cheap .22 bolt action like the Cricket. A rifle shooter needs to learn the basics and that requires lots of rounds downrange - only a .22 will do unless you can spend the taxpayer's dime.

 

[rem22long40x]

I think your first rifle should be a rim fire as you will need to get lots of practice to develop good handling and muscle memory , and to get familiar with shooting altogether.

 

[kozak6]

You should find a good quality .22 for a first rifle, or at least to accompany something in a larger caliber. If you are already Ruger crazy, you could find a nice 10/22. The SR-22 is a fancy tactical shell with a 10/22 inside.

It's massively easier to learn how to shoot a .22, and ammo costs profoundly less.

Compare prices here:
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-rimfire-c-48_475.html
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-rifles-c-12_43.html

As for the FAL, it doesn't like sand. The Israelis ditched them for an AK clone. Not a bad gun, though. It's often referred to as "The Right Arm of the Free World".

The G3 is tricky. If you want a rifle built and assembled by H&K, it will be cost several times more than $500. If you want a foreign G3 pattern rifle that's been chopped up, imported, reassembled with a certain amount of US made parts, and critical parts possibly ground down to fit, it might be closer to $500.

The HK 416 you saw was the .22 version. The real version also costs several times more than $500.

The G36 is also tricky. You can buy the neutered civilian version and then spend large amounts of money to make it look like a G36, but that's a poor value. An alternative might be to put a lookalike shell on a Ruger 10/22 (Archangel Marauder).

The SKS is a good rifle, but it's not that much cheaper than an AK.

 

[doc2rn]

If you like ruger, and are not using it for some specific task I would seek out a Ruger 77/22 Mk II with a v-bolt action. When you look inside the chamber you should not see threads. This has been my go to gun for training, hunting, and general carry afield for goin over 15 yrs. I even taught my daughter (who is 9 yo) with it. If I could have just one long gun, this would be the one I kept.

 

[tbutera2112]

> H&K G3/416: Firstly, H&K. Great weapons manufacturer. G3's reputation and service record, the 416's contender-status in the SCAR competition too. Found both at a show for a bit over $500 each. Seemed without imperfection, though that'd vary by specimen. If I see a nice G36 for the right price, that would work nicely too.

you saw an HK 416 for $500? i highly doubt that. you must be mistaken. 1. hk416 is full auto meaning you cant own one anyways unless youre a law enforcement agency or an FFL with class III license. 2. last i checked, people were paying $5000 for just the upper of an HK416 and then putting it onto a different lower to get it by. 3. even the civilian semi-auto model, the MMR416, is selling for over 2 grand

also - everything i said pretty much goes for the hk g36 also.

if you truly did see them for $500 - it was some FFL who selling off his dealer samples because he has an addiction to crack and is dying from cancer, and you still couldnt buy them unless you had a class III license

 

[Tallinar]

I would suggest starting out with a Ruger 10/22, and then after a few thousand rounds downrange see where you'd like to go from there.

And welcome to the forum! Stick around and do a lot of reading. There's a ton of knowledge floating around here!

 

[CaliCoastie]

not even a question in my book, get a 22 you like. I have a preference to levers but they can be pricy. get a cheap bolt and practice chosing your shots, or grab a semi auto(i like the marlin 60), once you get use to it and feel comfortable move up.

 

[brnmuenchow]

Plan on doing much shooting? Check ammo prices first, .308 ammo isn't inexpensive.

Agreed, Truthfully I would recomend for a first time rifle owner mabye something like a .223 Rem. bolt-action or even an SKS, both the .223 Rem, and 7.62X39mm are great for inexpensive fun.

 

[CONNEX 3300]

Sounds like the good ol' mini14 is what you are looking for. The mini30 is another option, but there have been some issues because the mini 30 has a .308 barrel on a gun chambered for a .311 bullet.
As long as you are not looking for an exceptionally accurate rifle, the mini14 is a LOT of fun. Pretty reliable too, and I see that reliablility is important to you. .223 ammo is cheap, low recoil, and is available everywhere. If you want a 7.62x39, I would highly recommend an AK or SKS over a mini30 or AR. This is because you get a far more reliable gun for much less $$$. Definate "cool" factor in the AK. You can trick it out as far as you want.

For your .308 rifle, an alternative would be a converted saiga .308. What you have there is a cool looking AK, chambered in .308. Reliablility and looks of the AK, with the power of a FAL. Much cheaper than any other semi auto .308 too.

Bottom line though, if you are not overly concerned with tight groups on paper from a bench, but would rather engage close range targets while standing on your hind legs like a man, the mini14 is tough to beat.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yup, what CONNEX said is good info

 

[mattpnc]

Wow, this is great info guys.

@ Konstantin: come to think of it, it very well might have been a .22, not many people were giving it their attention after they looked at the price tag.

@ wlewisiii: sure, fun is one of my aims, couldn't deny it, but I also have a right to bear arms, if you catch my drift.

@ CONNEX: yeah, a Saiga doesn't sound like a bad option, there were plenty at this and that expo center I went to.

What do you guys think of Galils? I suppose I'd trust an Israeli weapon to take a beating. also, if I were to buy any of these weapons that can be manufactured with different parts/receivers/etc., what are some good makes? bad makes?

 

[Telekinesis]

The only downside to the .308 Saiga will be that you will likely have to keep the stock 10 round mags. Standard AK mags won't fit a .308 cartridge. I'm not sure if anyone has a high capacity mag for converted .308 Saigas.

IMI Galils are reported to be very good. Both reliable and accurate. They even made them in .308. The only problem is that importation was stopped several years ago, so the rifles currently in the US command a premium. I've seen a few at several thousand dollars. What you are probably seeing are Century Golanis, which have a history of bad heat treating on their receivers and several other problems.

 

[DavidMS]

Went though the same thing recently.

After much though, decided on a CZ 452 Trainer because it has good factory iron sights. Store thinks it will arrive tomorrow! But I won't be able to pick it up till Thursday or Friday.

 

[JSNAPS]

Marlin model 60! please do not get sucked in to centerfires first! Never owned a gun, a .22 is the ticket: super cheap and hone your skills. plus they can be had for 100 or less. cant beat that! Marlin model 60 is pretty accurate out of the box and will serve you fine throughout the years

 

[Sky]

Many complain about the Mini-14 not being accurate due to chamber. I do not own one, but really did like the M-14 it's big brother. The range has one for sale for $400 but I do not need another rifle that is not as accurate as an old SKS.

At the range I frequent there are many shooters but now it seems everyone is jumping on the .22 band wagon due to cost of ammo.

I see many ARs with the CMMG conversion kits so that people can shoot all day on the cheap. They shoot and plink 100s of .22 and then pop off a few .223 just for good measure. The conversion kits are great but are not as accurate as a dedicated upper and do to difference in flight of the bullets can be problematic if you are interested in accuracy with optics set for 5.56 zero.

What ever you purchase range time will be your friend if you approach your marksmanship in a professional manner with goals/accuracy/ and functionality of your weapon as your desired result.

I must admit I have had more range time lately shooting .22 AR uppers than any other caliber. You do need to get what is pleasing to your eye and the 308 is a great round....but is also not a round most like to shoot a couple of hundred on a range excursion.

 

[justice06rr]

I'm a new rifle shooter myself, and as your first rifle, I would highly recommend an AR15 platform also in the 5.56/223 caliber. it is pretty much the most versatile and compatible rifle, can be built piece-by-piece, or buy a complete AR stock or with aftermarket goodies. You can also shoot the cheaper 223Remington instead of the 5.56NATO if you prefer. They sell them very cheap at Walmart for about $5/box of 20 ($25 for 100rds), and bulk ammo is easy to find online.

You can change anything you want with the AR; barrel/caliber, stock, sights/scopes, grips, etc. and they're all pretty much interchangable. Smith&Wesson sells a good starter AR in the M&P15 sport for around $650 and is American made of course.

 

[LoonWulf]

I have to admit I started with a Remington 700 in .30-06. If your dead set on a centerfire I say go for it, but do pick up a .22 in the near future. I've got a mini-14 and really like it, and would recommend it, if you like the type. They are chambered for 5.56 tho they say .223.

 

[Jeffhole]

I agree with the people who are recommending .22s. I'm still new to shooting, only own two firearms, the first was a Model 60. No matter the caliber, the more metal you put down range the better and a .22 is a super-cheap way to shoot thousands of rounds, getting your basic mechnics and personal preferences worked out. On top of that, .22s are just plain fun. PLINK PLINK PLINK PLINK PLINK.

 

[essayons21]

AK

Inexpensive, plentiful and cheap ammo, super reliable. Get a Saiga and customize it.