My Thoughts on the FN FAL

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I rather liked hunting chucks along creekbanks with an FNC para.
Trigger aint great but that ulgly little rifle will shoot 55gr stuff very well.
Had bunches of farms back in the day to hunt, CJ5 with the FNC on the pass seat, shoulder belt around it and T case knob..............kept it from flying out.
Good times.
 
As for FALs, who the heck makes a stock "G.I." style anymore that won't kill your wallet?

At least the G3s (PTR-91) are actually obtainable by the average person.
 
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Just realize, there are two types of FAL owners. Those who own Paras and those who will
 
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Cooldill said:
As for FALs, who the heck makes a stock "G.I." style anymore that won't kill your wallet?

At least the G3s (PTR-91) are actually obtainable by the average person.
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That's true. I have looked at the PTR GI model, and I like what I see. And that paddle mag release that they come with now would be a BIG help. Even though I don't own one at the moment, I still went ahead and bought a bunch of West German surplus mags, since they're still so CHEAP and readily available. Who knows, I may buy one some day.
 
I don't mind the FAL but I shoot left handed so the ergos and controls suck. The FAL would be the last of the major battle rifles I would take to a fight simply because all the controls are in the least convenient spot for me. I would rather have the 17S or a good AR-10, or barring those, an M14 or HK roller lock, in that order.
 
Lower photo was an unfired STG58 kit I bought 20 years ago and put together about 12 years back by Arizona response systems.on an Imbel lower. It is very accurate for an FAL : 2-3" groups at 200 yards with German Nato ball from GECO and it Sighton 3 series 1.5-6x50 with german pickets. Top rifle is an L1A1 kit from early 90s I had somebody put together on Imbel lower in late 90s.. it now has a 2x Aimpoint on it with wood furniture. Both rifles moved to Oregon last year for my son's use. I use my Smith Enterprise M-14 now for a .308 battle rifle, and yes it is more accurate than my FALs
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The AR variants and the M1A are not now and never have been battle rifles. They're commercial sporting rifles.
The only reason the M14 got selected was because the FAL wasn't invented Stateside.
"...refer to the FAL as “the..." They're wrong. No such thing as a 'Black rifle' until the AR-15/M-16 came along and got jammed down NATO's throat just like the 7.62 was a few years earlier.
"...make it work in extreme cold..." The C1A1, our version of the FAL(difference is mostly the sights), works every time, in all weather.
"...shoots minute of commie bad-guy at 300 yards..." Exactly what it was intended to do. Match shooting wasn't even a consideration. Reliability was.
 
What my thoughts on the FAL boil down to are that it is much more obscure in the United States than it deserves to be, and I really can’t understand why it isn’t more popular
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I think that there are a few reasons why it's not anywhere near as popular as other Military style semi rifles.

• Price : They're usually fairly expensive compared to a great many other rifles. $1400 to $2200 (depending on what features, parts and gunsmithing) is about what they go for now. That means that someone could buy several guns rather than just one instead.

• The warehouses that once held surplus 7.62x51 NATO ammunition around the globe are mostly empty now. Just by virtue of it being surplus ammo at some point it's going to run out.

The FAL's, the H&K G3's, the M-14's, the 7.62 NATO Galil's and the Italian BM-59's that were once in the hands of soldiers have mostly been replaced by 5.56, 5.45, and 5.8 weapons. The 7.62 NATO GPMG's have stayed in the role that they carved out for themselves in the military units of much of the world, but except for specialized uses the 5.56 has mostly replaced the rifles. That means that there's not as much surplus 7.62 NATO ammo being available to be bought and sold.

• Age : They occupy somewhat of a middle child niche in terms of age. They aren't antiques or vintage (FN-49, M1 Garland, Gewehr 43 etc), but they aren't modern either. They occupy that middle ground in terms of age.

They just aren't as desirable as the latest and greatest that's the new centerfold on gun magazines, but they aren't going to be as desirable as an antique from a unique period in history.

Plus what battle proven history it does have wasn't in US hands. It was used in a multitude of bush wars and the largest conflict was during the Falkland Islands.

Which brings me to my next point...

• It suffers from the 'Not made here' attitude. Guns that have been used by American GI's or their enemies are usually more sought after. The FAL occupies neither category.

• Recoil : .308's recoil's slightly more than the .223 Rem. Shooters who are relatively new to guns don't like that recoil all that much.

At the range I've heard quite shooters who were trying a 30-06, a .308 or a .270 out for the first time complain about the excessive recoil and compare their rifle to the proverbial mule. When I started shooting in the 70's and 80's more recoil was just expected, so you just learned how to manage it better and dealt with it.

• Accuracy : The FAL isn't quite as accurate as a M1A. Over the years I've owned 3 FAL's and an M1A NM and I always thought that the M1A was a bit more accurate. Despite this I always liked the ergo's and control location on the FAL a bit more as I felt them easier to run any place other than off a bench (in which case I'd rather have an M1A).

So shooters looking for an uber-accurate semi-auto .308 mostly gravitate towards M1A's or the various AR-10's out there instead of the FAL.

• Availability : There weren't that many FAL's imported into the country as complete rifles (like SKS's or AK's) before they were banned from importation.

Except for Enterprise in Irwindale Ca. (I'm not even sure if they're around anymore) DSA is pretty much the only game in town as far as FAL's go. That means that DSA has a virtual monopoly on that rifle within the US and there's nothing in the way of competition.

In terms of popularity timing in the firearms market is everything.

• Purpose : With the AR you can assemble them to suit any purpose you want. Long range high power competition, coyote rifle, night time hunting rifle (usually hogs), AR pistol, home defense, 3-gun competition ... you name it.

While there are FAL pistols out there there aren't generally a whole lot of different configurations that FAL's gets built into.

What you see is what you get and mostly the only differences are either fixed or folding stock and then either an 16, 18 or 20 inch barrel. That's it. Mostly they're fixed stock and either an 18 or 20 inch.

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So I'm thinking that there's a multitude of reasons that the FAL is less popular in the US than they should be. If import restrictions were lifted and FAL's were allowed to be shipped here from Europe, Australia, Israel and So. Africa and/or several other companies assembling parts kits or manufacturing them sprouted up at this time I'm thinking that they'd be a lot more popular than they are currently.

Same thing with the H&K-91/PTR-91 and the company JLD/PTR.
 
Here is a shot of me shooting my FAL, in an older configuration and paint job, at our local tactical rifle match. Targets that day ran from paper at 10 yards to steel at 425 yards. I shot it all iron sights and did pretty well.
 

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Personally I quite like my FAL (a para built on an IMBEL receiver).

I shoot left-handed, and with the ambi safety, the ergos are just about as good as it usually gets for left handed people trying to use old battle rifles - I can work the charging handle much easier than on my HK clone, for example. The FAL certainly feels great.

The SCAR is twice as much as what I paid for for my FAL. Of course, you can also have a brand new Robinson XCR-M for not too much more than my FAL (and I do) and the ergos on that are just amazing (although the XCR was never issued in an army).

So there is plenty of completion in the 7.62 /308 market. The AR308 has plenty of customization options, aren't terribly expensive, and have familiarity going for them.
 
Browning said:
I think that there are a few reasons why it's not anywhere near as popular as other Military style semi rifles.

• Price : They're usually fairly expensive compared to a great many other rifles. $1400 to $2200 (depending on what features, parts and gunsmithing) is about what they go for now. That means that someone could buy several guns rather than just one instead.

Except for Enterprise in Irwindale Ca. (I'm not even sure if they're around anymore) DSA is pretty much the only game in town as far as FAL's go. That means that DSA has a virtual monopoly on that rifle within the US and there's nothing in the way of competition.
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Right, and I touched on that earlier. If there was some competition in the market to begin with, then I think prices would have been lower.

Browning said:
In terms of popularity timing in the firearms market is everything.
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Good point. Maybe the FAL is a rifle whose time has already come and gone in the US.
 
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Sunray said:
The AR variants and the M1A are not now and never have been battle rifles. They're commercial sporting rifles.
The only reason the M14 got selected was because the FAL wasn't invented Stateside.
"...refer to the FAL as “the..." They're wrong. No such thing as a 'Black rifle' until the AR-15/M-16 came along and got jammed down NATO's throat just like the 7.62 was a few years earlier.
"...make it work in extreme cold..." The C1A1, our version of the FAL(difference is mostly the sights), works every time, in all weather.
"...shoots minute of commie bad-guy at 300 yards..." Exactly what it was intended to do. Match shooting wasn't even a consideration. Reliability was.
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Yup. They seemed to work well enough in the freezing Norwegian Arctic when the CAST Brigade Group was deployed there. And I've always thought the C1A1's ability to be top-loaded with stripper clips was a cool feature too. Very useful if you've somehow lost all your spare mags, or there's an extreme strain on the supply system and you can't get any more.
 
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With respect to the FAL, I know I have said and I believe the rifle is obsolete, and was made obsolete by its creator Fabrique Nationale when they developed the SCAR series. With that said, the design never really had a chance to mature and evolve. Let me explain.

The FAL wasn't fielded by any major military (*cough* United States) that at any point engaged in a prolonged conflict or two, and had both the resources to make technological changes to the platform, and a civilian market for the guns that would also drive innovation. Look at a current M4 carbine, or AR platform rifle or carbine sold to civilians as an example. The modern versions are so much more versatile, refined, reliable, and durable you'd scarcely believe they were the same weapon more or less. Necessity is the driver of a lot of innovation and the prolonged conflict in the Middle East provided necessity to make changes to the AR platform as issued by the military to improve performance and lethality. Getting the fight into an open area where long shots are a necessity, just as urban warfare kicking in doors at night made making changes to the platform mandatory. No longer was an iron sighted carbine or rifle acceptable, we weren't fighting in a jungle where optics had less value etc. Now in fairness a lot of the changes had already been introduced to civilian market guns, such as flat top receivers, and free floating hand guards. Once Afghanistan and Iraq kicked off though it was on like Donkey Kong for developing new solutions for the M4/AR. Advanced free float rails that are easy to mount gadgets on that are actually tough enough for duty issue while still being reasonably light and improving accuracy are a good example. Better triggers as fielded by USSOCOM and made by Bill Geissele that are service grade durable and safe are another. Look at the plethora of combat optics and mounts that are not only easy to install but work as advertised and are just as tough as the dang weapon in a lot of cases. Add to this the demands of the civilian market and you have a highly refined platform, with a plethora of good parts and accessories (along with plenty of dodgy ones too). No other platform can compete with that, talk about a barrier to market entry.

Had the FAL been adopted by Uncle Sam in one of the various calibers offered, I can just about guarantee we'd have all sorts of high speed low drag FAL variants with free floating rails, awesome triggers, and all sorts of good stuff. Necessity would have demanded it. Plus once the weapon gets adopted Uncle Same is loathe to move on to other platforms, he stuck with the M16 even though it had some teething issues and has undergone extensive modification from the original TDP. Even the M14 got hauled out and modified to try to make it not suck, while these efforts failed, it goes to show how stubborn Uncle Sam can be at trying to make things work even when they don't want to. I suspect the FAL would have been more accommodating a design to modernize and upgrade than the M14 for example.
 
Uh that's not 100% accurate. The Brits used the SLR in numerous conflicts through out the world that led to a few modifications the most noticeable being the sand cuts on the bolt carrier. The Aussies used the L1A1 in Vietnam with a high degree of success. The bush wars in Africa also saw extensive use of FAL/SLR rifles by the SAS. I know a retired Rhodesian SAS major that used an SLR during his years of service. He has nothing but praise for it and chose to carry his SLR over other rifle they had access to including the M14 and M16.

So yes it may not have seen an IQ/AFG length but it saw service from Vietnam to the Falklands to the African bush and desert. Now I totally agree that if the US had adopted the FAL over the M14 we'd see way more support and acceptance for the rifle.
 
After my initial experiences with the FN FAL I was not impressed.

WAIT! DON'T STOP READING FAL FANBOYS!!!!

These were Brit and Canadian guns in the mid 1970s. They were in poor shape and the troops showing them to us and letting us try them out complained they were not reliable or accurate. They all looked rode hard and put up wet.

I looked at but only handled briefly and did not shoot in that time period an FN rifle belonging to the German Police and an STG58 in Europe, but given my prior distasteful experience with the Canadian and UK guns applied my expectations to these nicer condition guns.

ABout ten years later a buddy shows up with one of the Springfield Armory Brasilian guns (SAR-48??????) and after sneering at it a bit I shot it. New gun verses 15 year old hard service gun was like night and day. Suddenly the FAL looked a lot better.

Unfortunately I was working on a Master degree and Interning as a high school teacher at the time and so did not buy one of the Springfields at the time while I was hot for one.

Soon there came the Century plain jane FALs and some worked quite well and mostly hit where aimed and some were .....well tent pegs.

Then came the host of "home built kits" Some f these put the best of the Century guns to shame. Some were down right great guns and some....well beloved tent pegs.

I think there are a lot of good FALs out there I would not mind having, but saying you want an FAL these days is like saying you want an "AR15" these days. You have to be more specific.....unless you like rally expensive tent pegs.

Personally I would love to have that SAR48 in the condition I shot it that weekend 30 years ago........but as white socks wearing, formerly PBR drinking, redneck crumudgeon I would not trade my M-1 for it. ;)

-kBob
 
When I bought mine, decades ago, it was between it, the G3 and the M1A, that is Springfield Armory's versions of all 3. I ended up with a SAR-48HB and I've never been sorry. I far prefer shooting it to my AR and even to most of my .22s. I also decided it was far too accurate to go without scoping, so I did that, opting for a cheaper unit to find out if it warranted the expensive piece. It does, but the cheapie is still rather impressive, so it stays.
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One of my favorite movies when I was a kid was, "The Odd, Angry Shot." It was an Australian Vietnam film and the FAL played an extensive role. From that point forward, I have always loved the look of the FAL and wanted one for my collection. While working in a gun store during college, I had access to an extensive collection of rifles and machine guns. After using the FAL, I was just not that enamoured with it to ever buy one. The sights were OK, but the trigger was horrible on the few we shot. From time to time I get the itch to buy one, but always just end up buying more 5.56 for my AR's and shooting the heck out of them. I realize that they are two distinctly different animals, but they just don't fit any realistic need I have at this point. I still think they are very cool and if I had tons of cash would own one or two just for fun.

Here is the trailer, there is some good FAL action towards the end..

 
Stevie-Ray said:
When I bought mine, decades ago, it was between it, the G3 and the M1A, that is Springfield Armory's versions of all 3. I ended up with a SAR-48HB and I've never been sorry. I far prefer shooting it to my AR and even to most of my .22s. I also decided it was far too accurate to go without scoping, so I did that, opting for a cheaper unit to find out if it warranted the expensive piece. It does, but the cheapie is still rather impressive, so it stays.
100_0499.jpg
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I have had an SAR-48HB since 1987 or so...and love it dearly. Just put a scope on it last X-mas as I also found it too accurate to go without glass. Tinkered with the trigger a bit and it's very nice now, along with a buffer in the back of the action that rifle is just SO smooth shooting.:)
 
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