Florida bill could hand gun owners huge win, make the US a constitutional carry majority country

This would be great. It would complete my constitutional carry journey from Ohio down to FL with all the states in-between.
You still have the Carolinas in your way. Open carry is allowed in NC and if it's in your car and you don't have a license it's got to be sitting in plain sight or stored in such a way that it is in accessable to the driver while the vehicle is in motion to carry concealed you need a license. SC is in accessable only in the car, no open carry, permit required for concealed.
 
You still have the Carolinas in your way. Open carry is allowed in NC and if it's in your car and you don't have a license it's got to be sitting in plain sight or stored in such a way that it is in accessable to the driver while the vehicle is in motion to carry concealed you need a license. SC is in accessable only in the car, no open carry, permit required for concealed.

The Carolinas are not on the way from Ohio to FL. I-75 comes straight out of OH, through KY, TN, GA and into FL. Even if I did have to go through the Carolinas, I would do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid the drive through the NC mountains as you come out of Gatlinburg and head SE. That has the worst traffic of anywhere I have ever seen. Beautiful scenery, but horrendous traffic.
 
The Carolinas are not on the way from Ohio to FL. I-75 comes straight out of OH, through KY, TN, GA and into FL. Even if I did have to go through the Carolinas, I would do EVERYTHING in my power to avoid the drive through the NC mountains as you come out of Gatlinburg and head SE. That has the worst traffic of anywhere I have ever seen. Beautiful scenery, but horrendous traffic.
Oh yeah I know all about that. I live in western NC. We vacation in Sevierville to visit Buds gun shop then rude over to pigeon forge and Gatlinburg. Ain't it nice the way they have boulders held up by a chain link fence on the side if the highway?
 
I paid the money and jumped through the hoops to obtain my FLCWL.

I would be nothing but thrilled if that process and expense could be done away with.

I want all good people in my state to be given the opportunity to carry effective weapons. I want them to be able to do so with the same disregard for legality that the criminal element among us enjoys.
 
Requiring a license to carry a concealed firearm is likewise Constitutional carry, being perfectly consistent with the Second Amendment, such laws having never been invalidated by the Supreme Court.

And will the proposed legislation also repeal the three-day-wait requirement when buying firearms from an FFL – if not one will still need a concealed weapon license to avoid the three-day-wait and take his new gun home the same day as purchased.

Moreover, those who possess a concealed weapon license are lawfully allowed to keep a gun in the car even on private property where the property owner otherwise prohibits guns – including employers; indeed, employers aren’t even allowed to ask employees about guns in their cars if the employee has a concealed weapon license.

The Florida concealed weapon and firearm license is far much more than just authorization to carry a concealed weapon – it actually expands and protects the right to carry and be in possession of a firearm.

Last, should I use my gun in lawful self-defense, being in possession of a concealed weapon license will be an advantage.

This Florida resident will be keeping his concealed weapon and firearm license regardless.
 
Requiring a license to carry a concealed firearm is likewise Constitutional carry, being perfectly consistent with the Second Amendment, such laws having never been invalidated by the Supreme Court.

And will the proposed legislation also repeal the three-day-wait requirement when buying firearms from an FFL – if not one will still need a concealed weapon license to avoid the three-day-wait and take his new gun home the same day as purchased.

Moreover, those who possess a concealed weapon license are lawfully allowed to keep a gun in the car even on private property where the property owner otherwise prohibits guns – including employers; indeed, employers aren’t even allowed to ask employees about guns in their cars if the employee has a concealed weapon license.

The Florida concealed weapon and firearm license is far much more than just authorization to carry a concealed weapon – it actually expands and protects the right to carry and be in possession of a firearm.

Last, should I use my gun in lawful self-defense, being in possession of a concealed weapon license will be an advantage.

This Florida resident will be keeping his concealed weapon and firearm license regardless.

I imagine that's what everyone else in the state will also do.
 
Latest Update from Florida Carry;

by Lee Williams
At a hearing of the House Constitutional Rights, Rule of Law, and Government Operations Subcommittee held Tuesday for HB-543: Concealed Carry of Weapons and Firearms Without a License, seven amendments offered by Democratic committee members were offered, heard and quickly shot down, and dozens of Floridians pleaded with the committee to add open carry to the bill.
HB 543, which has also been described as “unlicensed concealed carry” removes the requirement for Floridians to obtain a Concealed Weapon Firearm License, or CWFL, before carrying a concealed handgun. The bill does not change the prohibitions or exceptions for open carry in the state.
Rep. Charles “Chuck” Brannan III, who sponsored the legislation with Rep. Bobby Payne said his bill “eliminates the fees and wait times for law-abiding Floridians who want to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for self-defense.”
Brannan pointed out that HB 543 is strongly supported by law enforcement: 18 of 20 State’s Attorneys in Florida and 60 of 67 Florida Sheriffs support the bill.
“The Second Amendment guarantees that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed,” Brannan said. “At least 25 other states including our neighbors Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia authorize their citizens to carry firearms without requiring licensing by the government. With this bill, Florida has an opportunity to join these states, without first having to obtain government permission.”
Amendments
Only Democrats on the committee offered amendments to the bill, all of which failed.
Rep. Lindsay Michelle Cross offered an amendment that would require anyone who “opts out” and carries a concealed firearm without a CWFL to obtain at least $100,000 worth of insurance. Cross’ amendment failed.
Rep. Jervonte “Tae” Edmonds proposed an amendment that would bar concealed-carry in grocery stores, gas stations, music venues or any religious institution. Edmonds’ amendment failed.
Rep. Katherine Waldron offered an amendment banning homemade firearms, which she called “ghost guns.” Her amendment failed.
Rep. Dotie Joseph proposed four amendments. Her first amendment had six parts.
Concealed carriers would need to do the following:
  • Take a firearm safety class and pass a written exam.
  • Provide a written statement from a Florida physician certifying they are mentally fit and free of drug abuse.
  • Pass a mental health exam and drug screen.
  • Take and pass a one-day firearm class that includes a live-fire test.
  • Establish secure storage for guns and ammunition, which would be inspected by a law enforcement officer.
  • Submit to fingerprinting and a background check.
This amendment failed.
Rep. Joseph’s second amendment would ban open carry at concert venues and polling places. (Under current law, open carry at polling places is already prohibited, as is concealed carry at polling places.)
“You can’t open carry and go around trying to intimidate people,” she said. “I’m just trying to keep people safe.”
This amendment failed.
Rep. Joseph’s third proposed amendment would prohibit guns in cars, which she said would prevent firearm theft. It too failed.
Rep. Joseph’s fourth amendment would require background checks for private sales or when a firearm is loaned to family members for hunting or recreation. It failed.
Public comment
More than 120 people completed appearance cards requesting to testify before the committee about HB 543.
Speaking on behalf of the Florida Sheriffs Association, Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said, “We support this bill.”
“This bill doesn’t do anything against public safety,” Gualtieri said. “It doesn’t increase the number of guns on the street. This bill protects people’s right to protect themselves. Florida Sheriffs strongly support this bill.”
Bob White said the legislation is not “constitutional carry,” since it prohibits open carry. “It does not eliminate prohibitions against campus carry or Red Flag laws,” White said.
Art Thomm, State Director for the National Rifle Association, spoke on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of NRA members in Florida.
“We stand in support of this legislation,” Thomm said. He was not alone. Representatives from both Gun Owners of America and the National Association of Gun Rights said they support the bill, adding that the legislation needs to be amended to add open carry.
Eric Friday, general counsel for Florida Carry, Inc., pointed out that the U.S. Supreme Court noted three times that the “Second Amendment is not a second-class right.”
“Anyone virtuous enough to vote is virtuous enough to carry a firearm,” Friday said. “People have been denied their rights and I have had to sure the Department of Agriculture under previous administrations – administrations – to get their rights to get license. People have waited over a year because the Department of Agriculture denied their license and denied hearings on their license.”
He pointed out the racist roots of gun control laws in Florida.
Said Friday: “It’s time for Jim Crow to die, and this is a step toward that.”
The vote
The bill was voted favorably out of committee after a three-hour hearing.


Lee Williams is a member of Florida Carry's board of directors.
 
jdc1244 writes:

Requiring a license to carry a concealed firearm is likewise Constitutional carry, being perfectly consistent with the Second Amendment, such laws having never been invalidated by the Supreme Court.

The SCOTUS having not invalidated a law hardly sets the standard as the law being "constitutional." The SCOTUS has a never-ending job. After all, every law already invalidated by the SCOTUS was done so because the Court determined that it actually wasn't constitutional. Until then, the law was valid.
The Court upholding a law is a stronger argument for the law's constitutionality. A law never upheld nor invalidated may simply have not yet been challenged or questioned enough.

And will the proposed legislation also repeal the three-day-wait requirement when buying firearms from an FFL – if not one will still need a concealed weapon license to avoid the three-day-wait and take his new gun home the same day as purchased.

Moreover, those who possess a concealed weapon license are lawfully allowed to keep a gun in the car even on private property where the property owner otherwise prohibits guns – including employers; indeed, employers aren’t even allowed to ask employees about guns in their cars if the employee has a concealed weapon license.

The Florida concealed weapon and firearm license is far much more than just authorization to carry a concealed weapon – it actually expands and protects the right to carry and be in possession of a firearm.

Last, should I use my gun in lawful self-defense, being in possession of a concealed weapon license will be an advantage.

This Florida resident will be keeping his concealed weapon and firearm license regardless.

The rest of your post makes sense. Many people in true Constitutional-Carry states maintain issued permits/license for similar reasons, as well as for travel to states still requiring them. If their home state does not offer one (Vermont), some will seek one in a different state.

This bill is not seeking to do away with the license entirely; it would only eliminate the requirement to have one to carry.
 
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Sadly that is just as wrong as taxing gun owners out of existence.
Wrong can't be beat by wrong. Because it just gets worse.
My question is where was all the pro gun politicians when we had the House Senate and President?
We've seen it all before.

There is nothing "wrong" with taxing multi-billion dollar corporations. They are not people, they do not have rights that rise to the level of the 2A.
You must fight fire with fire, they must pay through the nose for their efforts to deny us our 2A rights.
 
If
There is nothing "wrong" with taxing multi-billion dollar corporations. They are not people, they do not have rights that rise to the level of the 2A.
You must fight fire with fire, they must pay through the nose for their efforts to deny us our 2A rights.

But you can never Tax a Corporation; they just pass the cost to their Customers who pay for everything.
 
Actually, the notion that Constitutional Carry states may now be in the majority does little or nothing for the states that do not have it. Until my state relinquishes the Senate and Governorship to the Republicans we will never have it. The BIG cities have all the votes and they are liberal.............
 
If


But you can never Tax a Corporation; they just pass the cost to their Customers who pay for everything.

Wrong. In an intermediate microeconomics class one of the lessons you are taught is that the burden of a tax like that depends on the elasticity of the demand for the product. For something with highly inelastic demand, say insulin or cigarettes, the tax burden mostly falls on the consumer. For something with highly elastic demand the opposite is true, the firm must absorb most of the burden of the Tax.

I would wager that Disney theme parks demand is relatively elastic, although less so than other parks. And in any case, the people that are still going to these places in light of the crap these companies have pulled should have to pay too. We 2A people can skip taking the family to Disney parks and take them to the range instead. (and there are a long list of good reasons you should never take your kids to Disney)
 
Anti-gunners are good at taking rights incrementally, like getting a 10 round mag limit then coming back for more later; they do not try to implement their whole agenda at once because it would meet too much resistance and fail.

IMO, if this fails and FL doesn't get permitless concealed carry it will be because of trying to implement our whole agenda at once, rather than have a incremental gain. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have the whole pie, its just that trying to take the whole thing may prove unsuccessful and end up forfeiting the gain we could have had.
 
Florida makes a decent amount of money in permit fees with 2 million resident permits. FDACS is not about regulation on CCW, security licenses, or any other licenses- they just want the money.

There are more than 21 million people in Florida, seems to me when the .gov wants something they just write IOU’s or if they need cash, just raise taxes or add new ones.

My State seems to like to create toll roads so we are charged each time we drive on roads we paid to build. Probably also funnels money into politicians pockets too.

However, based on statistics from 2003, most toll roads in Texas are owned by public-private partnerships.

Lots more money flowing when you get into more peoples pockets.
 
Wrong. In an intermediate microeconomics class one of the lessons you are taught is that the burden of a tax like that depends on the elasticity of the demand for the product. For something with highly inelastic demand, say insulin or cigarettes, the tax burden mostly falls on the consumer. For something with highly elastic demand the opposite is true, the firm must absorb most of the burden of the Tax.

I would wager that Disney theme parks demand is relatively elastic, although less so than other parks. And in any case, the people that are still going to these places in light of the crap these companies have pulled should have to pay too. We 2A people can skip taking the family to Disney parks and take them to the range instead. (and there are a long list of good reasons you should never take your kids to Disney)

But you are still not Taxing an inanimate object; the people that buy the tickets are paying the tax.

If you don't like paying Liberals then get off the Internet every company that provides services is as Woke as you can get.

Also your computer, tablet or cell phone because their as Woke as your can get too.
 
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Anti-gunners are good at taking rights incrementally, like getting a 10 round mag limit then coming back for more later; they do not try to implement their whole agenda at once because it would meet too much resistance and fail.

IMO, if this fails and FL doesn't get permitless concealed carry it will be because of trying to implement our whole agenda at once, rather than have a incremental gain. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have the whole pie, its just that trying to take the whole thing may prove unsuccessful and end up forfeiting the gain we could have had.

We will get something to appease the Small Conservative base, but it will not be much. Look at the history of the state.
 
But you are still not Taxing an inanimate object; the people that buy the tickets are paying the tax.

If you don't like paying Liberals then get off the Internet every company that provides services is as Woke as you can get.

Also your computer, tablet or cell phone because their as Woke as your can get too.

It makes no difference that it is a service rather than a good (what you call an inanimate object). The exact same calculation still applies. Elasticity of demand determines that tax burden. People buying the tickets will never pay the full tax burden, that would require a perfectly inelastic demand, which is certainly not true of theme park admission.

Your second point is a classic false dichotomy fallacy. There are more than 2 extremes. One can avoid doing business with anti-2A businesses as much as they are able, while still using the internet. Further, my internet use does not do much for those firms anyway, I rarely behave the way they want (ie. I run ad blockers, I don't buy the crap they want me to, etc)

Again, false dichotomy of choice. I can't live in 2023 without a PC, sorry, not going to happen. But I can live without Disney admission, and their movies, etc. I can also refuse to spend well over 1k for an iPhone, and use a cheap disposable Samsung instead, I can build my own PC which lowers their margins, etc.

You really need to google false dichotomy fallacy. And then quit using it. One can do a lot of boycotting of anti-2A companies with minimal disruption to their own life.
 
The senate bill made it out of committee.

Neither house nor senate bill allows open carry.

This watered down bill might actually make it through.

Sad to see the Republican party with a supermajority still doesn't have the balls to pass a real constitutional carry bill. But this is better than nothing- which is what we've had the last 3 years.
 
The senate bill made it out of committee.

Neither house nor senate bill allows open carry.

This watered down bill might actually make it through.

Sad to see the Republican party with a supermajority still doesn't have the balls to pass a real constitutional carry bill. But this is better than nothing- which is what we've had the last 3 years.

Yet, but they sure were fast to act after Parkland.
 
dannyd: I've noticed years ago that no major entity in Silicon Valley seems to believe in the US Constitution.

If I overlooked one which actually supports the First, Second and other amendments, somebody could tell me the name of the corporation.

Well, it's time to tread a few feet away and clean my Non-Woke, Non-FUDD...... Czech-made VZ-58 Sporter or the imported AKM I just shot two days ago.
 
Anti-gunners are good at taking rights incrementally, like getting a 10 round mag limit then coming back for more later; they do not try to implement their whole agenda at once because it would meet too much resistance and fail.

IMO, if this fails and FL doesn't get permit-less concealed carry it will be because of trying to implement our whole agenda at once, rather than have a incremental gain. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have the whole pie, its just that trying to take the whole thing may prove unsuccessful and end up forfeiting the gain we could have had.
Yes, Texas has been very successful in getting our first concealed carry law, modeled after Florida's, and then incremental improvements every session after, as all the opponent's shrill "blood will run in the streets if this is passed" claims continue to fail to materialize.

Open carry may be a "holy grail" of the hard core pro-gun crowd, or a tool of the anti-gun crowd put forward by Quislings in our ranks to tank support as a step too far, I wonder, but can't really tell. Open carry is rare in Texas cities because most privately owned places are posted to ban open carry. Few are posted to ban concealed carry, mostly because when signs went up after we first got concealed carry TRSA did a great job sending out letters suggesting that in doing so they are accepting liability for protecting their customers. But I've only seen open carry a handful of times over the years as I'm out and about, and fact is, I seemed to be the only one who noticed it, I don't know if everyone just assumed "must be a cop" or figured "great, any bad guy will shoot them first".

An informal compromise may have evolved where many places have non-legally conforming "no guns" signs which may make the sheep feel good and those of us actually carrying concealed can totally ignore.
 
dannyd: I've noticed years ago that no major entity in Silicon Valley seems to believe in the US Constitution.

If I overlooked one which actually supports the First, Second and other amendments, somebody could tell me the name of the corporation.

Well, it's time to tread a few feet away and clean my Non-Woke, Non-FUDD...... Czech-made VZ-58 Sporter or the imported AKM I just shot two days ago.

First if you think I am Liberal in anyway you are very mistaken. Liberals are guy's like Mr. Reagan and Mr. Trump. Good we have that settled.

First, Corporation's don't get taxed the people that use their services get taxed.

Second, almost all United State's Corporations are Liberal especially the Computer Industry.

Lastly I shot 11,809 rounds last year I hope you are keeping up and are a life
member of the GOA and NRA.

I have been to Disney once in 47 years in Florida for me it's sucked other people's mileage my very and that was 30 years ago. :)

1F4F69DE-8CA7-446B-9400-936001742A15.jpeg
 
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