Florida Teacher Fired Over Gun in His Truck

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Winchester 73

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We need to get that parking lot bill passed.The NRA has been battling the Chamber of Commerce and other powerful business groups for 2 years now.
Not to mention most of the states MSM.
Mods,if this is a dupe nix it.I had not seen it before.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/417603.html

Fla. teacher fired over gun in his truck
Posted on Wed, Feb. 13, 2008

BARTOW -- (AP) -- A Central Florida teacher has been fired because he kept a handgun in his truck in the school parking lot.

The Polk County School Board voted unanimously Tuesday to fire 51-year-old Phillip Bradley. He taught truck mechanics at the Ridge Career Center in Winter Haven when the 9mm handgun was found in his truck in the school lot last spring.

A hearing officer had recommended just a 90-day suspension, but School Board members said that would have set a bad example for students.

Bradley said he was sorry for his students. He also said he felt as if the board was making an example of him in an election year.

He was carrying the gun legally. He was charged with possession of a firearm on school property, but that charge was dropped in June.
 
Just points out the obvious reality that gun owners have no personal property rights. They (or their guns) can be searched, confiscated, and detained by "officials" or law enforcement without notice or justification. This comes up a lot on many forums, where a gun owner gets shot down for owning, carrying or using a firearm while someone else gets off. When is the last time you read an article or post about the police seizing a tire iron, baseball bat, length of PVD pipe loaded with shot, screw driver, or any of the other self defenses devices.
 
Take a look around this forum for messages from gun owners who strongly support the right of employers and property owners to suspend the Second Amendment on their property.

The very last thing anyone who gets into that kind of situation should want is the involvement of other gun owners. By the time they're through he'll wind up sitting on Old Sparky or strapped into a gurney awaiting lethal injection. Gun owners have principles, you know, and those principles often seem to involve beating up other gun owners--perhaps on the theory that it makes them look good or feel superior. Unpredictable people at best.
 
im guessing that vehicle search is a condition of employment at that school district, it is at most...

i still dont get how there are laws that prevent employers from discriminating, from requiring employees to smoke pot, from requiring employees to undress, but the ONE tangible piece of property that is guaranteed by the constitution is ok to ban in the interests of "property rights"
 
Hm... While I don't like the law, y'all are acting as if he weren't breaking it. Most schools in the US have a no firearms rule within X feet of the school, and that generally includes the parking lot. Keep in mind that was the original charge, though it was dropped.

Secondly, I doubt very seriously that ANY school has a vehicle search as an employment condition. I am a teacher, and I have never heard of such a thing, nor would I agree too work for a school that had such an insipid rule. It doesn't say, but chances are he was just careless in how he had it laying in his car and some kid or teacher or whoever walked by and saw it. If on the off chance they did have vehicle search rights, which I doubt, then I feel less inclined to be sympathetic, because he was just twisting the tail of the dragon.

Again, I don't like the law, and I feel somewhat bad that he lost his job, but we must lay at least a good chunk of the responsibility on the man himself.
 
TimboKhan, this line in the article says he was not violating any law: "He was carrying the gun legally. He was charged with possession of a firearm on school property, but that charge was dropped in June." So if anyone here is acting "acting as if he weren't breaking it," that's because he evidently wasn't.
 
That the charges were dropped doesn't mean he didn't break the law, it means that they opted not to pursue judiciary punishment, deciding instead to just fire him. If you punch me in the face and I don't press charges, that doesn't make you punching me legal, it just means you got away with it.

Secondly, your confusing two issues here. He was carrying the gun legally, meaning that under normal circumstances, he would have been fine. Then he broke the law by taking it onto campus. Had he been carrying it illegally to begin with, he likely would have been in considerably more trouble, but thats really neither here nor there.

In Colorado, it's legal to carry a loaded handgun in your car. I can go most anyplace with a loaded pistol in my car and be fine. The second I drive onto campus (and I am a teacher, so I am aware of the law), I am breaking the law. Not the law that says it's legal to carry a loaded pistol, but the law that says "no firearms on campus" Two different laws.
 
TimboKhan,

You are so quick to say this man is guilty of a crime...but why? From your posts, it is obvious that you don't understand Florida Carry Law - much less read it.

Let's look at some facts:

#1 Any law-abiding citizen may carry a concealed gun in thier car while on a school campus:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...y_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec25.HTM

#2 However, the Campus may forbid the possession of such weapons - yet this doesn't come under the unbrella of Criminal Law as no penalties for doing so are defined (Law always defined by Sanctions):

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/SEC115.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0790->Section%20115#0790.115

As a result, this is why the guy could be legally fired, yet not criminally prosecuted.

And those are the FACTS.
 
In Florida, I believe it IS against the law to have a firearm ANYWHERE on school property. They arrested a CCW newsreporter just for stepping on the sidewalk during a piece. I think he had pissed the cop off for other reasons, probably being too pushy to get the story. Then when they nabbed him for that they found the "legal" CCW and charged him with that also on school grounds.

Here is part of another Statute - 790.06. I think what would be in contention is what is considered the "facility".

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
 
I don't know about Florida, but in Georgia, where I teach, it is not illegal to simply have a gun in your vehicle. If you are dropping your child off or picking them up after school it is perfectly legal to have a gun in your vehicle. If you park your vehicle and come in the building it is technically illegal even if the gun is out of sight. Where I teach I cannot imagine that anyone would get into trounle as long as it were kept out of sight, however.

Teachers with guns is a little more complex. At one time a principal who I worked for about 15 years ago told us in a faculty meeting that guns were allowed in vehicles as long as you secured permission from the principal before hand. Several of us did and we just kept quite about it. That was 2 principals ago and pre-Columbine, so the local policies may have changed.
 
Rustynuts,

Please read carefully what you have posted - for it is in contradiction to what you have asserted.

Notice that the law you quoted specifies "into" and "inside" - not "on". And that's a BIG difference.

Also, notice that the Law I quoted specifies "on" - and this is a BIG difference.

NASCAR
 
I bet the fool that is suspending this guy has no idea what happened in Pearl, MS. The VPs gun in his car saved everyones ass.
 
Hm... While I don't like the law, y'all are acting as if he weren't breaking it. Most schools in the US have a no firearms rule within X feet of the school, and that generally includes the parking lot. Keep in mind that was the original charge, though it was dropped.

Secondly, I doubt very seriously that ANY school has a vehicle search as an employment condition. I am a teacher, and I have never heard of such a thing, nor would I agree too work for a school that had such an insipid rule.
Click to expand...

The original charge was dropped meaning the police would not proceed. The school district still may. (obviously did)

You are obviously unaware of the "reasonable suspicion" clause which allows the personal space of students and staff to be searched at any time by school officials without a warrant provided the search is conducted on school property.

If you want to keep full constitutional protections, then park OFF school property where the standards for search are much higher.
 
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My wife is a teacher in Ky.
Although the law says she may carry onto the property in her car, the school board says she can't and that by signing her work contract, she agrees to it.
The problem is, nobody has ever taken it to court to see who wins out.
 
TimboKhan:
In Colorado, it's legal to carry a loaded handgun in your car. I can go most anyplace with a loaded pistol in my car and be fine. The second I drive onto campus (and I am a teacher, so I am aware of the law), I am breaking the law. Not the law that says it's legal to carry a loaded pistol, but the law that says "no firearms on campus" Two different laws.
Click to expand...

No, you're not aware of the law in Colorado. From the Colorado Revised Statutes:

This statute covers those with permits:

18-12-214 Authority granted by permit - carry restrictions.
(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked.

This statute covers those with or without permits:

18-12-105.5 Unlawfully Carrying A Concealed Weapon - Unlawful Possession Of Weapons - School, College, Or University Grounds
1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person’s possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901(3)(e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, or high school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution which require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

3. It shall not be an offense under this section if.

a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or
c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person’s or another’s person or property while traveling; or
d) The person, at the time to carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1 as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of Section 18-12-214 (3)

There are 2 statutory references clearing stating having a gun in one's vehicle while on public school property is legal as long as the owner either stays in the car or leaves the gun in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked should the owner exit the vehicle.
 
The problem is, nobody has ever taken it to court to see who wins out
Click to expand...

Bingo. Make the law foggy enough that people will adhere out of fear because they don't have the money to fight or challenge such a situation.
 
NASCAR MAN

You are completely correct.My wife is a teacher at a Miami-Dade County school.Her school forbids EMPLOYEES to have firearms in their vehicles in the school parking lot.There is no Florida Law against this.It's the school's rule.
When I visit her at work, I park in the school lot and lock my gun in the glove compartment.I could leave my vehicle there all day and would be breaking no FL law UNLESS I carried the firearm onto the campus.
And good job by Bailey Guns in explaining CO law.
 
Nascar Man, my bad, I only read your first link! The second link give the following, but I bet most have policies against. I don't understand why the law states the waiver? Does it then make it illegal? Anyone can post a no guns policy and fire you, but it's not written in any law that way. Weird they would mention it in the Statute. Florida needs to pass the car carry EVERYWHERE law to prevent companies from doing this. But I bet they keep the School exception though.

"(2)(a) A person shall not possess any firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade or box cutter, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, at a school-sponsored event or on the property of any school, school bus, or school bus stop; however, a person may carry a firearm:

3. In a vehicle pursuant to s. 790.25(5); except that school districts may adopt written and published policies that waive the exception in this subparagraph for purposes of student and campus parking privileges.

For the purposes of this section, "school" means any preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high school, secondary school, career center, or postsecondary school, whether public or nonpublic."
 
Anyone can post a no guns policy and fire you, but it's not written in any law that way. Weird they would mention it in the Statute.
Click to expand...

Rustynuts,I work for a large Dade County city and they have the same zero tolerance policy on guns, including the parking lot.
Fortunately for myself, a few years ago I found a nearby business owner who allows me to park in his lot.Now I'm now longer disarmed commuting.
It all goes back to property rights vs our 2A rights as Robert Hairless succinctly pointed out in post #4 on this thread.
Again,thats why FL needs that parking lot bill to become law, to eliminate any ambiguity,pronto.
 
Bailey, your right to the extent that I would be OK if I had a carry permit. In my example, I never said anything about a carry permit, and in fact I let my permit lapse. The qoute was completely applicable to me, although I guess I could have made the point clearly that I was not referring to permit holders. I qoute from your qoute the following:

18-12-105.5 Unlawfully Carrying A Concealed Weapon - Unlawful Possession Of Weapons - School, College, Or University Grounds
1. A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person’s possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901(3)(e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, or high school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution which require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.
Click to expand...

It is, as I previously stated, a misdemeanor, not a felony. And I, as previously stated, know the law when it comes to guns and schools.
 
Timbo, you need to read and understand:

18-12-105.5 Unlawfully Carrying A Concealed Weapon - Unlawful Possession Of Weapons - School, College, Or University Grounds

It states it's illegal to carry on school grounds, etc. Until you get to:

3. It shall not be an offense under this section if.

a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or
c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person’s or another’s person or property while traveling; or
d) The person, at the time to carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1 as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of Section 18-12-214 (3)

That section covers those without permits and clearly states it's not an offense. Paragraph (d) refers to those with carry permits. Even paragraph (a) states it's OK to have the weapon in your car though that paragraph stipulates it must be unloaded...lotta good thats gonna do (though with a firearm in Colorado "unloaded" simply means an empty chamber).

And as a 15 year law enforcement officer in the State of Colorado I'm pretty familiar with the law myself, though I know nothing of teaching in schools. I have, however, been teaching Colorado CCW classes for 7 years.

Not trying to start a fight or be disrespectful with you, Timbo, but I think you need to rethink what you "know" about Colorado law.

If you have another statute that proves your position definitively, I'd like to see it. I've stated my position and will respectfully leave it at that.
 
Bailey, your right to the extent that I would be OK if I had a carry permit.
Click to expand...

OK,but in:AK,AZ,CO,DE,FL,GA,ID,KS,KY,LA,MS,,MO,MT,NE,NV,NM,NC,OR,SC,SD,TX,VT,VA,and WY,loaded handguns may be carried without a permit.
 
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