FMA : Eskrima, Arnis & Kali

[shockwave]

I'm finding that a lot of the same principles that apply to racket ball and Frisbee (both of which I've spent a lot life time with) for getting maximum power and control with footwork, shoulder and arm movement, wrist flicks, etc, also apply to these sticks.

Right. The power you have is generated from the feet, delivered by the hips, and the arms and wrists are there just to aim the sticks. It's a tough thing to learn because it's natural to want to use arm muscle to power the stick, but that will slow it down and speed and accuracy are everything in escrima. When you can feel your weight shifting from leg to leg like you're a giant slinky, and then capture the weight transfer with your hips and deliver the strike with that, you're on the road.

 

[ozarkgunner]

I've been training with Escrima style stick fighting for a about a year and a half at home. Using techniques that I have found in book and videos on line. I have also developed my own style and techniques.
I just started taking Hapkido classes last month. about a week ago the instructor had an Escrima class. The basic forms that he started us with were almost identical to what I have been studying on my own. And as many are aware and have learned, Escrima fighting lends it self to many other weapons types.
As a self defence weapon in the home or on the street, sticks can be very effective for defence against anything, even a person with a gun at point blank range. Just the act of swinging a stick can block, dis-arm, and dis-able an attacker. With a little, or a lot, or practice, depends on the person, blocks and strikes can become second nature. With more practice and the addition of hand to hand combat training, minimal force and movement can block and stop an attack.
By adding hand to hand combate techniques to your weapons defence studies, it becomes quite easy to stop an attacker using minimal force, and minimal damage to the attacker. Which comes in very handy when standing in court and having to defend your self from a greasy lawyer, when you are in a nice suit and your attacker in in a neck brace and arm cast.
As stated over and over again, self defence force needs to be kept to the minimum needed to stop the attack. With proper CQC training and stick fighting, this becomes very easy to do. A couple of simple swings, a side step, and an elbow or shoulder lock, and your attacker is stopped, detained, and given a new look on life, as LE shows up and sorts things out. You may be detained as well by LE as the facts are sorted out, but you have your wallet and your health. And by the would be attacker not having any bruises, cuts, or broken bones, things will look very good for you.
I have been training my son as well. And with the few simple things that I have taught him, with a stick, he can defend himself against some one twice his size. And he won't be out of breath.

Escrima, Kali, etc, an excelent non-lethal tool, not weapon, for close range self defence.

 

[hso]

Let's make sure that we discard the idea that sticks/canes are non-lethal. They can be used in a less-lethal manner, but make no mistake, they can kill.

 

[AStone]

Someone famous once said,
Walk softly, but carry a big stick.

 

[AStone]

So, here's the next topic to go with sticks: Jeet Kune Do.

Over the weekend, while researching treatments for rotator cuff injuries
(got a little too aggressive with the dips),
looking at Tai Chi for stretching led me to JKD.
(Yeah, I know; it seems a stretch. But work with me here.)

Well, suffice to say, watching this video of stick master Dan Inosanto
discussing Lee's original ideas led to this Wikipedia article.

Then, I found Tommy Carruthers stuff.

Add some sticks, call it good.

If that doesn't work, pull out the gun.

Right?

 

[AStone]

Well, as my post above indicates, in the last few days, I've become very intrigued by Jeet Kune Do. I remembered that someone in this thread recommended it a month or so ago. Searching, it was Mikhail in post 18.

I've been watching parts of that History Channel documentary on Bruce Lee (much of it available on YouTube). I'm quite impressed with his philosophy, and see it's relevance to most of life. I can already see the appeal for those of us who like to follow our own path.

I'm heading to the book store now to pick up a copy of Tao of Jeet Kune Do that's being held for me.

I'm already starting to look for sources of training in it, especially in upper New England which is where I'm heading next.

I searched on it in this subforum, but found little outside of this thread.

 

[AStone]

I'm heading to the book store now to pick up a copy of Tao of Jeet Kune Do ...

Got it.

Not what I had expected, but probably better.

I've scanned it, perused the table of contents, starting now to read.

The introduction is by his wife, Linda, and a second essay by Gilbert Johnson, editor of this volume, who organized it. His introduction greatly helps to explain the organization of the volume.

This part of Linda's introduction caught my eye. Within it, she explains that he wrote it during a six month recovery from a severe back injury, relevant to me as I recover from a rotator cuff injury.

He did not intend [this book] to be a "how-to" book or a "learn kung-fu in 10 easy lesson" book. He intended it as a record of one man's way of thinking and as a guide, not a set of instructions. If you can read it in this light,there is much to be aware of on these pages. And, you probably will have many questions, the answers to which you must seek within yourself. When you have finished this book, you will know Bruce Lee better, but hopefully you will also know yourself better.

Now, open your mind and read, understand, and experience, and when you've reached that point, discard this book. The pages are best used for cleaning up a mess - as you will see.

Now, I'll confess that I will probably pass it along rather than "discard" it. And I certainly won't clean up a mess with it, though I do hope to use it to make my own life less messy.

His sketches are wonderful. I can see from them that this is relevant background material for those preparing to study open hand, blade or stick arts, or - as in JKD - all of the above in whatever combination works for you.

I've also benefited greatly from watching the History Channel snips, especially this part which makes clear in the first 30 sec that his JKD philosophy applies to any part of life, whether martial arts, professional or personal.

Gilbert Johnson's last line in his introduction speaks to that.

Jeet June Do, you see, has no definite lines or boundaries - only those you make yourself.

I think I'm going to like this book.

 

[docnyt]

Unfortunately, the only "real" JKD schools are in Oakland and Seattle. Carruthers is one of the more famous proponents. JKD has always seemed the most practical and original martial arts systems to me, Krav Maga being a close second. If there were a JKD school nearby I would sign up in a heartbeat.

 

[AStone]

Docnyt, why do you say "the only "real" JKD schools are in Oakland and Seattle"?

I'm not going to question your assertion; I'll leave that to others to discuss.

I'm just curious about your reasoning.

 

[docnyt]

Those were the original locations and as a student I would rather have an instructor who learned JKD from one of the original students that actually were trained by Bruce Lee.

Also, you may want to pick up a copy of "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method". It contains more of the actual techniques. "Tao" is more of a philosophical book, in the same vein as "The Book of Two Guns: The Martial Art of the 1911 Pistol and AR Carbine" by Tiger McKee is to guns.

 

[MariusDP51]

After reading this thread I tried a light stick I have at home (for other purposes) on the heavy bag.

Love it. I'll be including this training in my normal programme. Being proficient with a stick can be VERY handy. Love it. I can only imagine what a slightly heavier, more solid stick, would do.

 

[shockwave]

Jeet Kun Do has been an enigma in the martial arts. We do have Lee's text on the subject, but he didn't run a school teaching it, leaving behind a cadre of students who could carry on knowledge of the style. But there are a few people out there who claim to have studied with him - and the number of these people is larger than credence allows.

So. Like Stephen Hayes and his "ninjutsu," you have to be extremely skeptical of anybody claiming to know anything about JKD. On the other hand, JKD is really more of a mindset about learning and training. Don't be bound to the philosophies of a single art or style, be flexible, if it works - add it to your arsenal, etc.

For today's fighter, there are more options than ever before. Krav Maga schools are becoming easier to find, Gracie jiu jitsu studios are everywhere, and I might be mistaken but I'm getting the impression that "McDojos" are on the way out and students have become a bit more discriminating.

The important thing is to get started. Some arts, like Karate and Krav Maga, can be learned fairly quickly, but others require a serious investment of time. The health benefits of practice are a bonus and being in good condition is a great thing in and of itself.

 

[AStone]

Docnyt, thanks for the clarification.

Also, you may want to pick up a copy of "Bruce Lee's Fighting Method".

Yes, saw that yesterday. Perhaps eventually I'll do that, but would like to be able to read such a tome in conjunction with actual training.

On the other hand, JKD is really more of a mindset about learning and training. Don't be bound to the philosophies of a single art or style, be flexible, if it works - add it to your arsenal, etc.

Yes, my initial impressions support that interpretation.

In fact, that's precisely what attracts me to it, that flexibility, presumably the simplicity.

At this point in life, I don't have decades left to study any martial art in depth. I'm looking for something relatively simple and straightforward that will fit into my fitness regimen and contribute to my SD skill set while respecting my aging joints and bones.

 

[hso]

Unfortunately, the only "real" JKD schools are in Oakland and Seattle.

Completely disagree and the statement runs counter to JKD basic philosophy that the student shouldn't focus on a rigid style, but should instead take what is useful to integrate into what works for them. There are two different perspectives in JKD, one group that believes only what Bruce Lee taught should be taught by instructors and the student should develop their own material from that base and the other group that believes that the philosophy is unchanging,but that the material can adapt.

What's important wrt an instructor is to verify the "lineage" of the instructor is legitimate and that they're actually listed as a JKD instructor in the JKD organization.

The JKD instructor I trained with was through the Inosanto lineage and was recognized by the federation.

 

[Gunfighter123]

What's important wrt an instructor is to verify the "lineage" of the instructor is legitimate and that they're actually listed as a JKD instructor in the JKD organization.

The JKD instructor I trained with was through the Inosanto lineage and was recognized by the federation.

Once again , HSO is 100% correct !!!

 

[AStone]

Is it too late to save this thread?

My sense is, even at 294 days old,
FMA and JKD are not out of date, yet.

And if we want to expand the range of topics
relevant to stick fighting, we could add koppos and Irish stick fighting.

 

[kali13]

I've studied a number of martial arts over the years and love FMA. I started with Presas Arnis when I was learning Kajukenbo. One of the instructors, a JKD guy, had studied with the Presas family. I also picked up some Senkotiros, and some of the knife and stick combatives from Hock Hochhiem. Then, a number of years later, began studying Pekiti Tersia Kali. Absolutely blew me away. The knife and large blade/stick work was amazing and the empty hand techniques were very effective as well. I've been lucky enough to train with a great instructor and and practitioners as well as Tuhon Leo Gaje himself. I recommend PTK to anyone looking to train in FMA. Lots of good videos of Pekiti Tersia Kali on youtube especially of the Philippine Marine Corps practicing it for H2H and CQB.

 

[AStone]

I started with Presas Arnis...

Here's the best video I found when searching Presas Arnis a year ago.

Grand Master Ernesto G Presas Jnr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQltqe2FFcE

In a dirt street with roosters crowing.

With sticks, they repelled invaders carrying swords and guns.

But I would not have wanted to be his assistant in this video.

Still, this is reality.

 

[hso]

relevant to stick fighting, we could add koppos and Irish stick fighting.

Keep this thread on the original topic and explore the separate topics by opening separate threads instead.

 

[AStone]

I did open a separate thread about koppos.

I'll do the same about Irish stick fighting soon.

What I'm doing here, as any good teacher would,
is to synthesize concepts, tie them together.

Surely you recognize that.

 

[kali13]

Historically the Filipinos fought with a lot of blades such as the barong, parang, and ginunting as well.

 

[kali13]

Great video!!!
Here are a few PTK videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di7lrhZOE3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvrvoBIq__k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujN0-edyLs0
Hope you like them.

 

[AStone]

Thanks, Kali. I'm watching snippets of those during breaks at work.
(I'm self-employed, so I get to do such things,
even if work days stretch over 12 hours).

I'm focusing mostly on the stick work. I wish we could do youtube in slow motion.

 

[kali13]

Any time! And, yeah, a frame-by-frame option would be nice.

 

[WoodyTX]

Remember: A lot of times, the stick is a training tool for the blade. Shorten the stick, make the "window" smaller, and suddenly you're training for a knife fight...

Strong suggestion to follow through with a JKD or JKD Concepts or an FMA instructor. There are so many little tricks to the art, and so much of it is counter-intuitive (footwork, angles, speed vs. power).

(6 years FMA and JKD Concepts)