Follow up to: "Should you ever admit you are carrying?"

[Jenrick]

So what about citizens that are Open Carrying which is now legal in Texas?

Are they required to announce that they are Open Carrying a firearms to a LEO?

To open carry one has to have a license to carry, and as such they are required to notify if they are carrying and are asked to present identification. Additionally the firearm must be carried in a belt or shoulder holster if it is not concealed.

In my State the best reason to search a vehicle after a arrest has been made is for inventory of the contents purposes. That way the argument is made that all vehicles impounded by the police have their contents inventoried and valuable items are placed in safe keeping.

The courts have repeatedly stated that an inventory is not a "ruse for a search" and that if we continue down that path we're going to loose inventory as a thing too. We don't do inventory anymore, it's the impound companies responsibility. Its actually worked out quiet well for us doing it that way.

-Jenrick

 

[salt&battery]

Last time I was pulled over was the day before selling my Harley I was going 80 in a 55 on the bike for my last joy ride. Officer pulled me over I carry on my right hip and my wallet sits in my right front pocket. I do not have a duty to inform in my state but decided it was the best course of action at the time. Told him that I was carrying and where my wallet and pistol both were at. He thanked me for telling him and just asked me to slowly get out my wallet. He then ran my information came back and gave me a warning. We then spent about 20 minutes on the side of the road discussing how I liked my XDs because he was thinking about picking one up.

Fun little side note I have seen him at the local range a few times now. Took my oldest son to the range last week for his first time shooting. He was so excited about hitting the target "by himself" I had to support the back of the stock but he is six so we went with that. The office was there practicing when we got there. He recognized me I do kind of stick out in a crowd, he said that he just picked up his XDs the other day and loves it. He even gave my son some pointers and a sticker badge for hitting the target.

I have to say that the whole thing seemed to work out well for everyone.

no guys on this forum ever get a ticket for speeding or whatever. hmmm that is not my experience or of the ton of people I know

 

[salt&battery]

This cop did not identify the threat. He had time to identify (see) what the motorist was taking from his pocket...but IMO he panicked and shot first. He could have waited and shot IF needed, before the motorist had time to clear his pocket and aim.

This sort of thing would be the normal process for many car stops...motorists following police orders after the police know they are/may be armed (often by running the plates before approaching). This incident makes it sound like there is no way for citizens to be safe in a traffic stop.

almost to the point where you need body armor to drive around with

 

[salt&battery]

A traffic stop may be inconvenient and maybe a little unnerving for the motorist, but there are few things that are fraught with more potential danger for the law enforcement officer. He or she has no idea what to expect.

Disclosure is not required where I live, but I consider it common courtesy. Most people whom I know choose to disclose.

if it was so dangerous why do they pull people over for a brake light license plate light or a seatbelt?

 

[herrwalther]

Consider this: even just reaching to your visor has your hands moving, and out of the officers sight.
Might be a derringer up there? Who knows?

I try to be ready to conduct the entire interaction, with my hands visible, and with as little movement as possible. Not always possible, but something to keep in mind.

Good points. The visor would mostly be for me. I still wouldn't reach up there without being asked for the documents. And I wouldn't be rummaging around in the glove box. I tend to keep a lot of useless stuff in there anyway.

I live in a small town area. When my wife went to renew her CCW permit, the sheriff office passed along their congratulations that I got my new job with the county. Before they ran her name. On my last traffic stop I was going to work in the middle of the night, in uniform, when I hit a checkpoint. Didn't even get a chance to reach for my wallet before the officer waved me through saying "Get out of here, see you at the base." I don't inform officers I am armed because they all know I am already. But I still go slow and keep my hands visible. I would much rather not be shot by a worker from a similar department I work in.

 

[herrwalther]

if it was so dangerous why do they pull people over for a brake light license plate light or a seatbelt?

You would be surprised how often a traffic stop for a broken tag light or seatbelt can lead to something else. A minor infraction like that opens the door. Most of the time you might get let off with a warning or maybe a ticket, as long as you aren't being overly obnoxious or broke any other laws. One of the inmates I manage got caught in a traffic stop because he didn't have his seatbelt on. He had just committed an armed robbery of a drug dealer. Stole his car, drugs, money, and 2 handguns. Foiled by a seatbelt.

 

[Kendahl]

The singer John Denver used to come to my city because he liked a recording studio here. One evening, as he and the studio owner were headed to a restaurant for dinner, they were stopped by police and held at gunpoint. Their vehicle matched the description of the getaway vehicle from an armed robbery that had occurred in the area just a few minutes earlier. They complied with the officers' instructions and nobody got shot. After it was established that they weren't the robbers, they had a pleasant conversation with the officers and were sent on their way.

 

[Deanimator]

A traffic stop may be inconvenient and maybe a little unnerving for the motorist, but there are few things that are fraught with more potential danger for the law enforcement officer. He or she has no idea what to expect.

Disclosure is not required where I live, but I consider it common courtesy. Most people whom I know choose to disclose.

Do you disclose to the girl behind the counter at McDonald's? By company policy she doesn't even have any means to defend herself if you were to decide to take her and the rest of the night crew in back and shoot them, as happened in NYC.

 

[BSA1]

I don't remember if Kansas is a notify or not state ... but I don't know of a reason to not inform as long as your hands are in plain sight, and you know how to follow his directions.

Kansas does not require a conceal carry permit to notify a LEO that they are carrying. Note my previous comment that Kansas residents can carry without a permit.

However the number on my conceal carry license is the same as the one on my drivers license. So when the Officer runs my D.L. number it's...

Bravo, Tango, Foxtrot or something like that.

Lots of debate about whether to tell a LEO that you are carrying when not required to do so by law. Me? I keep my mouth shut and make my interaction with the officer as short as possible.

 

[Deanimator]

I always confirm I'm carrying. Courtesy to the LEO.

Do you render this "courtesy" to others. If not, why not?

 

[Deanimator]

Kansas does not require a conceal carry permit to notify a LEO that they are carrying. Note my previous comment that Kansas residents can carry without a permit.

However the number on my conceal carry license is the same as the one on my drivers license. So when the Officer runs my D.L. number it's...

Bravo, Tango, Foxtrot or something like that.

Lots of debate about whether to tell a LEO that you are carrying when not required to do so by law. Me? I keep my mouth shut and make my interaction with the officer as short as possible.

I obey the law to the maximum degree possible to avoid interactions with the police.

On those rare occasions when contact is unavoidable, I give "yes" or "no" answers to "yes" or "no" questions. I don't make small talk.

The way to avoid speeding tickets and DUI arrests isn't to render extra-legal "courtesies" to police. It's to drive the speed limit and not drive while impaired.

 

[Jack B.]

Do you render this "courtesy" to others. If not, why not?

Leo only.

 

[Deanimator]

Leo only.

Why not to others?

You're as much of a threat (if not moreso) to a girl behind the counter at 7-11 at 3:00am as you are to a cop at 3:00pm on main street.

Assuming that you don't plan to shoot him, but notify, assuming you don't plan to shoot her, why not notify her as well?

 

[Jack B.]

I'm not going to argue the point. Informing a LEO is a courtesy I extend to my community.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm not going to argue the point. Informing a LEO is a courtesy I extend to my community.

Is not the girl working the graveyard shift at United Dairy Farmers a part of the community?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Here's an example of why it's beneficial to both parties to inform, courtesy aside.








If you happen to like this kind of potential drama, regardless of whether there's an overzealous/anxious cop, then by all means don't say anything.

 

[Deanimator]

Here's an example of why it's beneficial to both parties to inform, courtesy aside.








If you happen to like this kind of potential drama, regardless of whether there's an overzealous/anxious cop, then by all means don't say anything.

His problem was getting out of the vehicle. You should NEVER do that unless ordered to. The firearm never would have been exposed if he hadn't done that.

While we have mandatory notification, open carry is perfectly lawful in Ohio, and in fact was MANDATORY in a vehicle until the law was changed. An "inadvertent exposure" has no legal significance here.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

His problem was getting out of the vehicle. You should NEVER do that unless ordered to. The firearm never would have been exposed if he hadn't done that.

While we have mandatory notification, open carry is perfectly lawful in Ohio, and in fact was MANDATORY in a vehicle until the law was changed. An "inadvertent exposure" has no legal significance here.

I'm not an expert by any means, and this is somewhat off topic, but I believe in some areas you are supposed to get out of the vehicle and others stay in.

In the case of the vid I posted it starts off with the guy getting out so we don't know for sure, but I would suspect if that wasn't SOP where he was at the situation would have started off a lot different than it did.


Regardless, the point is that if he had informed right off the bat things probably would not have played out like they did. Informing is not just a courtesy, it's something that will likely put the LEO at ease. Love it or hate it, accept it or not, it is what it is. Me personally, I wish to avoid situations like the vid I posted.

 

[Elkins45]

Is not the girl working the graveyard shift at United Dairy Farmers a part of the community?

The girl behind the counter is not acting under statutory authority in her interaction with you. While I understand the point you are making, I think your examples argue against your point.

 

[Deanimator]

The girl behind the counter is not acting under statutory authority in her interaction with you. While I understand the point you are making, I think your examples argue against your point.

Actually they're a strong argument that one either needs to notify BOTH or NEITHER... unless one has more respect for one than the other.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm not an expert by any means, and this is somewhat off topic, but I believe in some areas you are supposed to get out of the vehicle and others stay in.

In the case of the vid I posted it starts off with the guy getting out so we don't know for sure, but I would suspect if that wasn't SOP where he was at the situation would have started off a lot different than it did.


Regardless, the point is that if he had informed right off the bat things probably would not have played out like they did. Informing is not just a courtesy, it's something that will likely put the LEO at ease. Love it or hate it, accept it or not, it is what it is. Me personally, I wish to avoid situations like the vid I posted.

The cop himself said he shouldn't have exited the vehicle, and more than once I believe.

I don't know of ANY place where they WANT you to get out of the vehicle without being TOLD to.

It may "put the cop at ease" or it may cause him to act out inappropriately.

My advice is to obey the law, nothing more, nothing less.

In Ohio, I'm required to notify. That's been abused on multiple occasions where cops actively ORDERED people to remain silent, THEN arrested them for "failure to notify". The ability to do that needs to be taken away from them. If Ohio eliminates mandatory notification, I will not notify UNLESS my firearm will be exposed.

 

[salt&battery]

You would be surprised how often a traffic stop for a broken tag light or seatbelt can lead to something else. A minor infraction like that opens the door. Most of the time you might get let off with a warning or maybe a ticket, as long as you aren't being overly obnoxious or broke any other laws. One of the inmates I manage got caught in a traffic stop because he didn't have his seatbelt on. He had just committed an armed robbery of a drug dealer. Stole his car, drugs, money, and 2 handguns. Foiled by a seatbelt.

he should have gotten a medal for robbing a drug dealer. the guy that the thread started on got shot at 7 times and hit 5 times for no reason and it all started cause of a brake light. millions of dollars will be spent because of a brake light

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

The cop himself said he shouldn't have exited the vehicle, and more than once I believe.

I don't know of ANY place where they WANT you to get out of the vehicle without being TOLD to.

It may "put the cop at ease" or it may cause him to act out inappropriately.

My advice is to obey the law, nothing more, nothing less.

In Ohio, I'm required to notify. That's been abused on multiple occasions where cops actively ORDERED people to remain silent, THEN arrested them for "failure to notify". The ability to do that needs to be taken away from them. If Ohio eliminates mandatory notification, I will not notify UNLESS my firearm will be exposed.

I feel pretty certain that I've seen jurisdictions where you are supposed to get out of the vehicle when stopped, although I cannot currently come up with any proof searching the internet. Maybe someone else will chime in.

However, in the first 30sec of the video I posted at no time do I hear the LEO mention that the driver shouldn't have gotten out of the car. After 30sec is when the LEO spots the gun. But initially things start off ok. And that makes me wonder if the area in which the driver was pulled didn't require he exit the vehicle.

Still, we're kind of getting off topic. I agree in following the law. If you're not required to tell and decide not to, that's fine. That video was just an example of what might happen if you decide to act in that way, regardless of whether you get out of the vehicle or not, that's all.

 

[Kleanbore]

...the guy that the thread started on got shot at 7 times and hit 5 times for no reason...

The jury did not believe that the evidence presented to them showed, beyond reasonable doubt, that there had been "no reason".

 

[Deanimator]

However, in the first 30sec of the video I posted at no time do I hear the LEO mention that the driver shouldn't have gotten out of the car. After 30sec is when the LEO spots the gun.

It was after the cop saw the gun.

I've seen multiple videos where cops have told people not to get out of the vehicle, and I've seen MANY cops say SPECIFICALLY that you should stay in the vehicle.

I wouldn't get out of the vehicle unless I was ordered to or it was on fire. I've rarely seen an instance where somebody got out of the vehicle without being so ordered and things went well.