Should you ever admit you are carrying?

[Choctaw]

Texas is a "duty to inform" state, where we're required to notify LEOs if we're carrying. That's accomplished by passing them the CHL along with DL if stopped.

Indeed we are. In countless traffic stops I have made on violators I have NEVER had a CHL holder fail to inform me whether he was armed or not. I appreciate that. Also, I have NEVER shot a CHL holder. Lots of angst on this thread about dealing with the police. Chill out, because some of you are borderline ridiculous on what you are spouting here. I'm usually patient with these kinds of threads but I have been to three police funerals in the past week so my patience has worn thin.

By the way, three more officers are dead this morning.

 

[Praxidike]

Unfortunately I'm not sure we can really take any clear message away from Castile's case.

We don't -- and probably WON'T, ever -- really know what he did, what the officer really saw.

The officer could have made a grave mistake out of jumpiness and fear.

Or, the officer could have taken exactly the action his trainers and department would have instructed him to take, based on what he saw.

It is entirely possible that the officer said one thing and Castile heard one thing, and Castile did something -- all of them acting with proper intentions but saying/hearing/acting in ways that were just imprecise and in-cautious enough that they pushed a dangerous situation right into catastrophe.

We just don't know. Had he not informed, would the officer have seen the gun and shot him? Had he kept his hands on the dashboard (or wherever, visible) and said, "Officer, I don't want to reach for my waist because that's where my pistol is. How should I proceed?" we probably never would have heard his name and he'd be at just another day of work right now.

99% of time tiny imprecisions and miscommunications and misunderstandings have no consequences and we don't even notice them.

When there's a gun involved and a police officer in an enforcement situation, they are suddenly CRUCIALLY important. That's not wrong, or right. It just is.

A man is dead, and an officer may lose his job, could possibly even go to jail (though that seems very unlikely), and the nation reels and rocks, because of what looks like a horrible failure of communication of intent.

Be exceedingly careful and thoughtful when dealing with the police if you are armed (or any other time, really) and it is unlikely you'd end up in such a tragic situation.

Well said Sam. I try to drive that point home one other gun forums who seem to be more concerned with the decease's parking violations which made him a thug who got what he deserved than the fact that no one knows what happened or what was said. All we know is a man who DID have a CCP was killed by a police officer, and the fact that he had his firearm on his person during that stop played a role in his death.

 

[Warp]

Well said Sam. I try to drive that point home one other gun forums who seem to be more concerned with the decease's parking violations which made him a thug who got what he deserved than the fact that no one knows what happened or what was said. All we know is a man who DID have a CCP was killed by a police officer, and the fact that he had his firearm on his person during that stop played a role in his death.

Parking tickets are the only things you have seen about that individual? Look harder?

 

[4evernbljns]

lol...what?

I have never heard of this happening. Can you list some examples for us please?

long ago and far away,I was giving my ex wife and daughter a ride to store and we had a driver cut us off. My ex wife gave him the salute. I told her harsly not to do that because you don't know what he might do. Her reply was "What do I care,you carry a gun" Did I mention she is my ex-wife?

 

[Red Wind]

Parking tickets are the only things you have seen about that individual? Look harder?

Here is Castile's full record. Warning: Graphic photo.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/phila...ook-live-video-watch-lavish-reynolds-diamond/

Philando Castile, the 32-year-old man shot by a police officer in Falcon Heights, Minnesota after a minor traffic stop, had no felony convictions, but being stopped by the police for small traffic hassles was a regular occurrence for him.

 

[climbnjump]

Yeah, old thread, but there have been a couple of developments in the Castile case since the last post.

In November, the County Attorney filed second-degree manslaughter charges against Officer Yanez saying that “no reasonable officer knowing, seeing or hearing what officer Yanez did would have used deadly force.”

Yesterday, Officer Yanez's attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the charges based on the fact that Mr. Castile had very high levels of THC in his blood at the time of the incident. It was also revealed that Mr. Castile had been cited three times in the past for marijuana possession in a motor vehicle.

The latest developments can be found here: http://www.twincities.com/2016/12/1...ando-castiles-death-dismissed-marijuana-high/

 

[Triggernosis]

I only inform a police officer if I am present in one of the 11 states that require notification upon official LEO contact. Otherwise, I'll remain silent unless directly asked by the officer.

As to other than law enforcement, I never disclose that I'm carrying. Agree with the comments of Sergei Mosin on that referenced case.

Can you direct me to that list of states, please?

 

[RX-79G]

I don't think it is unfair to say that police are trained and have become hyper vigilant about accessible firearms. If they could, they would frisk and handcuff anyone they need to speak with before discussing whatever it is that's an issue. Failing that, they will press for firearms ownership information and ask to inspect and unload any firearm present.

It isn't that this isn't understandable, it just isn't right.

 

[unspellable]

On a lighter note, local pizza parlor gives me a 10% discount if I'm carrying.

I do not inform my wife if I'm carrying at any specific time, she knows this.

Years ago, my buddy and I got pulled over and frisked as we were the first car seen leaving the scene of the armed robbery. We came out of a restaurant that shared a parking lot with the convenience store that had been robbed. Wasn't carrying at the time, this before carry laws were relaxed..

 

[Robert]

I don't think it is unfair to say that police are trained and have become hyper vigilant about accessible firearms. If they could, they would frisk and handcuff anyone they need to speak with before discussing whatever it is that's an issue. Failing that, they will press for firearms ownership information and ask to inspect and unload any firearm present.

It isn't that this isn't understandable, it just isn't right.

Emphasis is mine.

Uh, no. There are laws, and this pesky thing called the Constitution, that prevents us from just cuffing everyone we contact. I wholeheartedly disagree with the NYPD stop and frisk policy. The only thing that really does is further alienate the population that is already very weary of police. "Officer safety" is not enough to justify placing someone in restraints, I have to articulate why I felt that individual was threat to my safety or to the safety of other officers and the public.

 

[RX-79G]

Emphasis is mine.

Uh, no. There are laws, and this pesky thing called the Constitution, that prevents us from just cuffing everyone we contact. I wholeheartedly disagree with the NYPD stop and frisk policy. The only thing that really does is further alienate the population that is already very weary of police. "Officer safety" is not enough to justify placing someone in restraints, I have to articulate why I felt that individual was threat to my safety or to the safety of other officers and the public.

I said "if they could". Regardless of the Constitution, US police see themselves as under siege and have a siege mentality.

 

[1KPerDay]

Utah is an "if asked" state. But when they run your licence it shows you have a CCP, or at least I assume it does because AFTER running my licence they always ask. Always. So now I just hand them my DL and CCP together up front. They seem to appreciate it and ask where the pistol is, I tell them, and they say "leave it there," and I say "of course." My choice, YMMV,

 

[Triggernosis]

In North Carolina we are required to inform a law enforcement officer, upon any interaction, ( such as being stopped for a traffic violation or a license checkpoint) that we are armed. I have never had one ask to see the weapon or even ask where it was.

 

[Deaf Smith]

IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer. Then be sure your hands are visible. In concealed carry class we were told to inform a police officer if we were stopped for some unrelated reason. Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

In Texas YOU HAVE TO LET THEM KNOW AND PRESENT YOUR CHL/LTC if asked for your ID.

Deaf

 

[bangswitch]

Unless there is a "duty to inform", to law enforcement, I NEVER mention that I am carrying. It's completely contrary to the purpose of carrying concealed, might as well open carry if you're going to tell anyone/everyone. Those who need to know (beyond the 'duty to inform') will find out at the proper moment.

 

[Jax]

In Texas YOU HAVE TO LET THEM KNOW AND PRESENT YOUR CHL/LTC if asked for your ID.

Deaf

And if you fail to do so the penalty is...?

Shortly after legal unlicensed car carry was written into law, replacing the old "traveling" case law, the penalty for not informing was removed. The statute still says you must inform - but there is no penalty for failing to do so. (Other than potentially hacking off an officer who might otherwise give you a break.)

I haven't been stopped in over a decade and would inform should it happen in the future, so I'm not suggesting it's not the appropriate thing to do.

Jax

 

[Alte Schule]

My son has been a Texas LEO for 19 years. He told me tonight that, during a traffic stop, he has never once had a person with a License to Carry fail to produce their license along with their DL and insurance card. Never had a positive hit for wants or warrants on someone with a LTC and will not write a citation on a person with a valid permit unless it's a gross violation. That being said Texas allows you to carry a firearm in your vehicle without a license so he just assumes that everyone he, and every other LEO he knows, stops for a traffic violation is armed and takes the necessary precautions.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I was stopped on a speeding violation. Wyoming law does not require notification that you are armed. No permit is required to carry concealed or open.
I thought I would just be a good citizen. I told the officer that I was carrying a concealed firearm. He did not even look up from writing the ticket. He said, OK I will make you a deal. You don't draw on me, I won't draw on you. He smiled and handed me a $75 dollar traffic ticket.

 

[Triggernosis]

I would have said: How about you not draw on that citation form, too. LOL

 

[DustyGmt]

You think joe average shopper at WalMart who isn't a gun guy or gal and who notices your sidearm now has a reason to kill you? And ... so what? They probably aren't armed so unless you're concerned they're going to bean you with a jumbo sized bottle of Tide, you're probably ok. If they were gun carrying types they'd probably be pretty cool about yours.

Very imagistic, lol. I taxed myself pretty good with that one, stomach hurts. Haha.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

I don't know that I whole heartedly agree with that particular statement but I do not usually tell people about my carry gun.

It's not completely out of the realm of plausibility that you could make yourself a target by blabbing about your gun.

 

[mjsdwash]

If your state dosen't require it, id'e say nothing, or lie. If you'r searched, and didn't do something to warrant it, and they find the gun, file a complaint with the department, and the state AG. If you did earn that search, I would (and have) wait until your out of the car with your hands on the roof to tell them, when they ask if you have any weapons or sharp objects. They would rather take it off of you then, when your under control (felony stop, involving a passenger BTW, no arrest, but I was pulled out of the car). Not trying to be harsh, but if its a simple stop, I try to make things easy, and fast for them. Having them on edge dosent help. The ones on a power trip that need you under control the whole time are not the mind fit for the job IMO. I should add, I have been stopped by an officer shaking with terror, over my flashing my lights, while he had his hibeams on. He felt disrespected that I flashed him, and then had me get out of the car with his gun drawn, because he was under the idea that only cop killing gangs flash their lights. I read the report, he really said that, and from the terror in his voice, and the way he was shaking me while I was cuffed, I can tell he really did think that. Thats what I mean when I say "not fit for the job". As always, if your state requires it, comply!

 

[rugerman]

There are conflicting reports.

"according to his Facebook posts, he was a gang member. They weren’t pulled over for a busted taillight. They were pulled over because he matched the description of an armed robber who held up a store 4 days prior.

Oh, and he didn’t have a concealed carry permit, and the gun he was carrying was resting on his thigh below his shirt."

http://iotwreport.com/blmleftist-philando-castile-shooting-narrative-is-falling-apart/

"The Falcon Heights, Minnesota police shooting of Philando Castile is based around an entirely false narrative. Castile and Ms. Diamond Reynolds (Facebook video uploader) were pulled over by police because Castile matched a BOLO Alert for an armed robbery suspect from four days prior."
Reynolds claimed they were pulled over for a broken tail light, false.

Ms. Reynolds also claims her boyfriend, Castile, was holding a concealed carry permit for a firearm that was resting on his left thigh. This also appears to be false.

"According to a question presented to the local county sheriff who oversees the Concealed Carry Permit process, Mr. Castile had never requested a concealed carry permit from their office"

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...lse-media-narrative-now-driving-cop-killings/

 

[Tirod]

I'd take exception to the idea that "cops are in a state of siege." Some large metros, maybe. The local PD, it's still business as usual with no major inner city politics, demonstrations, etc. They have more to worry about with meth and being significantly underpaid compared to the neighboring metro, which benefits by a steady stream of experienced officers moving there.

You and I getting stopped because we are on the same parking lot as the convenience store co - located with a bank branch that gets robbed every 8 months like clockwork? More like 'Hi Bob, get another one?" The issue is when you live in a high density area with almost no chance of being met repeatedly and known by others in public. It breeds a sense of being able to get away with rudeness - or crime. For many of us who circulate in the same surroundings daily we know we are a familiar sight and we are part of what is normal. So do the cops given enough time - they see, meet and greet us.

I'd say the real issue for some is that they have an attitude about cops above and beyond the normal annoyance of getting stopped for a ticket. Why? Because it's an ego contest of authority and they can't handle it. Which is where the comments and posts come from about "you will get shot" or "they will handcuff you just to ask some questions." That's not happening all across America, but I can tell you that if you smart off and confront an officer with it, what do you expect? You are acting just like the perps they stop. Face to face behavior is just the same.

Who's fault is that?

 

[Deanimator]

IMHO, no, unless you are asked by a law enforcement officer. Then be sure your hands are visible. In concealed carry class we were told to inform a police officer if we were stopped for some unrelated reason. Someone did that and was repaid with four bullets into him, resulting in his death. If he had said nothing he would probably be alive today.

Telling someone you are armed gives them a reason to kill you.

In Ohio, if you're "stopped for a law enforcement purpose", you'd BETTER start by telling them you're armed and have a CHL (or equivalent), otherwise you're subject to arrest and prosecution.

And you'd BETTER shout over him to do so if necessary, because Ohio cops have a history of ORDERING people to remain quiet, then ARRESTING them for doing so when their orders were OBEYED.

In some cases it seems to be of a kind with the old Philippine Constabulary trick of pulling somebody over, taking their license, ordering them to move their car farther off the road, then citing them for "driving without a license".

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The theory of the handgun is, it's the gun you always have with you. The theory of the CONCEALED handgun is, it's the gun nobody knows whether you have it or not .