For those who think felons should never have guns...

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you guys amuse me. i should probably share that i speak from the perspective of a convicted felon who had his rights restored. so i do let my experience in the real world color my thoughts. its not as neat as a discussion in the student union or starbucks but reality holds its own lil charm.

if you screw up own it pay for it. if you want your rights back earn em back. change how you lived to screw up. its not that hard to get em back and i live in one of the "bad" states. in reality most of the felons i know are better served by their loss of rights. but again i am inhibited by reality as opposed to some ethereal position or philosophy.
if you are to lazy or inept to work to restore your rights after you forfeited em maybe you don't deserve em. cause thats the real deal i forfeited mine. the evil man didn't take em i gave em away. i knew what i did had consequences but when i was a snot nosed punk i didn't think rules applied to me and i was never gonna get caught. sadly it appears that nothin much has changed in the world vis a vis the younguns. if anything they are worse. oddly for me the right i wanted back most was to vote ymmv

well enough real world please return to your more lofty pursuits
 
so now we've established your bench mark. its ok for you to forge moms name.
not ok for me. neither of us would likely go to jail. even for felonies most don't pull time
 
well wolfpack kid and sport's phy's.is alittle diff.,than a adult doing it.And they did it 12 times if the one postin is right.And they falsified evidence to .So it is like I said once earlier it's a little more serious than a 0.50 parkin ticket or loud muffler or tailight out etc.And no matter how you slice it adult forgery is a felony and should be a felony.
 
the fact that the doctor says he never saw the kid in 2010 is damning. they may have a friend in the docs office who wrote the note but signining docs name put him in the middle and he sounds unhappy
 
Echo9 said:
That doesn't indicate that we need to change our gun laws. It indicates that maybe we should reconsider what constitutes a felony.
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There needs to be different classes of felonies when it comes to denying RKBA.
 
I have no problem with Stupid being a felony.

...

I have no problem with "Off with their heads" as a solution to felons.
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Stupid should be a misdemeanor. Felonies should be serious crimes.

BTW, how many felonies have you committed in the past week? The past year? Probably more than one. Do you think you deserve to die?

Driving within a thousand feet of a school with a gun in the vehicle is technically a felony (yes, it's still on the books). In some states, having creative sex with your own husband/wife is a felony. Shoveling sand into that low spot in your backyard may be a felony. Expressing irritation to the TSA agent at the airport can be a felony. I believe that until fairly recently, homeschooling your kids was a felony in some states.

Technically speaking, trolling on a web forum, if the intent was to annoy, is a Federal felony, if you "use any telecommunication device" (e.g., a computer) with the intent to "annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person who received the communication," if you don't disclose your true identity. Ever said anything purposely annoying online?

Making yourself a backup copy of a DVD that you lawfully purchased appears to be a Federal felony according to a strict interpretation of DMCA, because you can't do it without circumventing the DVD's copy protection (and doing so is a felony, even though the act of copying is legal under the fair use doctrine).

And be particularly careful that your emails complaining about legislation don't "annoy" your Senator, even if you use your real name. Yup, felony.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/25/bruce-shore-unemployed-ph_n_588798.html

Bruce Shore, Unemployed Philadelphia Man, Indicted For 'Harassing Email' To Jim Bunning

When Sen. Jim Bunning complained on the Senate floor in February that he'd missed the Kentucky-South Carolina basketball game because of a debate on unemployment benefits -- a debate the Kentucky Republican himself prevented from proceeding to a vote -- Bruce Shore got angry.

"I was livid. I was just livid," said Shore, 51, who watched the floor proceedings on C-SPAN from his home in Philadelphia. "I'm on unemployment, so it affects me. I'm in shock."

Instead of just being angry, Shore took action: He sent several emails to Bunning staffers, blasting the senator for blocking the benefits.

"ARE you'all insane," said part of one letter Shore sent on Feb. 26 (which he shared with HuffPost). "NO checks equal no food for me. DO YOU GET IT??"

In that letter he signed off as "Brad Shore" from Louisville. He said he did the same thing in several other messages sent via the contact form on Bunning's website. "My assumption was that if he gets an email from Philadelphia, who cares?" he said. "Why would he even care if a guy from Philadelphia gets upset?"

Bunning might not have cared, but the FBI did. Sometime in March, said Shore, agents came calling to ask about the emails. They read from printouts of the messages sent via the contact form and asked if Shore was the author, which he readily admitted. They asked a few questions, and then, according to Shore, they said, "All right, we just wanted to make sure it wasn't anything to worry about."

But on May 13, U.S. Marshals showed up at Shore's house with a grand jury indictment. Now he's got to appear in federal court in Covington, Ky. on May 28 to answer for felony email harassment. Specifically, the indictment (PDF) says that on Feb. 26, Shore "did utilize a telecommunications device, that is a computer, whether or not communication ensued, without disclosing his identity and with the intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, and harass any person who received the communication."
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even for felonies most don't pull time
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But you get a life sentence on the revocation-of-rights part. Personally, I'd much rather spend 11 months in prison for a misdemeanor and get all my rights back afterward than get no time and a felony conviction with the permanent loss of rights. A felony conviction is a HUGE freaking deal. And being simply charged with one can be life-wrecking for someone without the financial means to buy good legal representation.

(Disclaimer, I've never had so much as a speeding ticket, never mind been arrested, and I'm hoping to continue that path.)
 
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As a practicing attorney I am sometime amazed at what is classified as a felony. A felony is something that can hang around someone's neck for a long time. I am also frequently amazed at how one stupid act can turn someone's life upside down, even when the act results in minor or no harm.

Sure things can be criminalized, but the status of a felony looses its distinction and its ability to "prevent" crime.

I think to many offenses are labeled as felonies and state legislatures just keep taking them on.
 
forging a doctors note to excuse son from school

This whole story sounds kind of strange to me. Being a parent there has never been and will never be a time when I would have to forge a doctors note to excuse my son from school. My son is under age, I am his father. If I decide to keep him from school I notify the school that he's either ill or not able to attend and that's that. I don't need a doctors note to keep my kid home from school!
This is America and not China or the USSR.

Now granted, if the kid is cutting out of school a whole lot more than is normal, out partying and having fun when he should be in class. Well in a case like this IF a parent forges a doctors note to allow his child to behave this way well maybe they should be charged with a felony. That kid will grow into an adult and these bad lessons and lack of discipline and respect are traits they will take with them into adulthood.
So, like I said the story sounds somewhat fishy to me. In fact school O fishy!
 
you could home school but if you wanna send em to public school the school wants em to graduate. its hard to be 18 and in 5th grade. and if they don't show up they can't graduate. or there are some private schools that give more options.
 
There needs to be different classes of felonies when it comes to denying RKBA.
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Pretty much the only way to interpret this statement is to read it as saying, "I don't want to lose my RKBA for the kinds of felonies that I might commit."

Sure, we all have sympathy for the poor schmuck who clipped a tag off a pillow and got sent up the river for committing a Class A Felony, but in reality such things are relatively rare. The criminal justice system doesn't want to get clogged up with law-abiding citizens who made a careless oversight. If you have a clean record and have a reasonable explanation for your behavior, most issues can be talked down to a lesser degree - and this holds for most people. The few exceptions don't change that reality.
 
Sure, we all have sympathy for the poor schmuck who clipped a tag off a pillow and got sent up the river for committing a Class A Felony, but in reality such things are relatively rare. The criminal justice system doesn't want to get clogged up with law-abiding citizens who made a careless oversight. If you have a clean record and have a reasonable explanation for your behavior, most issues can be talked down to a lesser degree - and this holds for most people. The few exceptions don't change that reality.
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I sincerely hope you never find out that you're wrong. There are plenty of people rotting in prison because they thought they could explain their behavior and talk things down to a lesser degree.

Here and here. Pay particular attention to the part about the Lacey act.
 
I believe that most people on this forum are felons, and don't even know it. Does that make those who have unknowingly commited a felony without their knowledge a bad person, no.

Point is there is too many laws on the books today that people simply don't know about. Silly laws that go back 200 hundred years or more that are not even relevant to today's world.

However, I do think that this is one subtle way for the government to use this to get rid of more guns. Think about it. Make something as trivial as speeding a felony, bye, bye gun rights.

Also if your a felon getting your rights restored is NOT as easy as one on this forum makes it sound. I'm not a felon, but I have looked into this. It appears that there is a long waiting list that can take years. Then you still might get turned down.

I believe once you finish your term in prison then all of your rights should be restored, you paid for your crime.
 
This is an example of what a "felony" can be in 2010 America. This is why I do not believe that RKBA should be automatically denied to felons, as opposed to the subset of felons who have actually committed serious crimes.
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Agreed, punishment should match the crime. Then we wouldn't have this problem.
 
There's something in the background coloring this and it's HIPAA - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act. Never mentioned in either article, but the defendant is accusing the doctor involved of violating federal law, and this is the law. It could also be the reason the prosecutor thinks he has a case, because someone altered a medical record.

Wife was the Jail Nurse before she retired, and one slip with this stuff and she could have lost her license and been prosecuted.
 
Shannon Anderson 27, along with her husband, William Anderson, were arrested March 8 and March 9, respectively, on felony warrants charging them with forging a doctor’s note to excuse their third-grade son from school.
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They weren't convicted of a felony. Don't get the two confused. It only muddies up your opinion by using a felony "charge" to prove a point about a "Felons".

Justin
 
Carl N. Brown said:
There are seven serious violent felonies that should be punished by denial of the felon's right to keep and bear arms:
.............
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Agree. I've bolded the ones that given extenuating circumstances might allow for RKBA in my opinion. Bear in mind that there are many other felonies that didn't make the top 20. Let's not forget that career criminals don't worry or care about RKBA.

What are the most common felonies committed in the US? A list of the 20 most common felonies in the US.

(1) Drug abuse violations 1,841,182
(2) Driving while Intoxicated 1,427,494 (aka Felony DUI)
(3) Property crime 1,610,088 (includes burglary, larceny, theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson.)
(4) Larceny-theft 1,172,762
(5) Assault 1,305,693
(6) Disorderly conduct 709,105
(7) Liquor laws 633,654
(8) Violent crime 597,447 (including murder, non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault.
(9) Drunkenness 589,402
(10) Aggravated assault 433,945
(11) Burglary 303,853
(12) Vandalism 291,575
(13) Fraud 252,873
(14) Weapons violations (carrying or possession) 188,891
(15) Curfew and loitering 143,002
(16) Robbery 126,715
(17) Offenses against family and children 122,812
(18) Stolen property (buying, receiving, possession) 122,061
(19) Motor vehicle theft 118,231
(20) Forgery and counterfeiting 103,448
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This whole story sounds kind of strange to me. Being a parent there has never been and will never be a time when I would have to forge a doctors note to excuse my son from school. My son is under age, I am his father. If I decide to keep him from school I notify the school that he's either ill or not able to attend and that's that. I don't need a doctors note to keep my kid home from school!
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Different states have different legal requirements, and different locales will react more or less severely when you violate a policy or requirement.

School is mandated for certain age brackets. In some places if you are keeping your child from school or interfering with their mandatory education the state can actually take custody of the child from you.
That is right, the state will come in and take your child away from you, and you will legally cease to be the guardian.
At the least in a locale that has some overly active enforcers it can result in a complaint to Child Protective Services who will then do a formal investigation.
Even if that does not result in losing custody it can result in permanent strikes against you as a parent under the law, allowing the state to have more oversight of your children in the future or make a case for taking away custody in the future.
Which means the state gains leverage in telling you how to raise your family once they get their foot in the door.
You will essentially then have a "record" as a bad parent, and any case made against you in the future will have more credibility and more serious consequences.


Have a week long vacation planned? Child gets really sick a week or two before, resulting in both that missed school and the trip?
You may be investigated if the right people in the school district make complaints.

So there is reasons someone may be motivated to do such a forgery.


if you screw up own it pay for it. if you want your rights back earn em back. change how you lived to screw up. its not that hard to get em back and i live in one of the "bad" states.
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That is not an option in many states. In some a felony is permanent, there is no recourse.
You are fortunate it was an option in yours.

The opposite is some states don't even require a procedure to regain certain firearm rights. In Texas a felon automatically regains the right to have a firearm in their home 5 years after their time is served, their last parole visit, etc
Do you think the feds would agree? Or will they be charging them with felony possession if they ever have them in court for something?
 
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forgery is forgery
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I forged my mother's signature on a form I needed to get a sports physical in high school. Should I go to jail?
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It is obvious that members here believe you should. But not only that, it is quite apparent that many here would prefer that you, your spouse and your children, face an armed attacker without being able to effectively defend yourselves. I have to suppose that they would delight in your inability to defend the lives of those who are closest to you. After all, and in their view, you are a criminal that doesn't deserve to benefit from the effective means to save the lives of your household if it is ever invaded by an attacker who is armed. They contend that you deserve that fate, because of the mistakes you made in your youth.

Pretty sad, huh? These guys are supposedly your "allies" in the RKBA struggle.
 
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