Friend wants me to help him pick a gun...

[Lupinus]

So, since among my friends I am the one that people come to when they have gun questions. I am by no means an expert but I know enough to get by. So today, a friend asked me to help him pick out a gun. He knows gun safety and how to shoot and everything and did time in the army, he really only knows the guns they trained him on though and not to much about civilian firearms and has never owned firearms as a civilian more then off and on. He knows the 1911 and M-16 very well, but civilian firearms aren't what he knows.

So his basic parameters were-

-under 350 dollars
-accurate enough to shoot out to a few hundred yards, he went through sniper school so he would long a little long range ability. He knows he isn't going the be able to shoot tight little groups at a very, very long range on his budget but he would like as much ability for it as possible with his budget
-good all around utility from plinking to home defense
-ammo that is reasonably priced enough to shoot often since he wants to start shooting more

He also would prefer a detachable magazine, goes along with his want for something good for HD. Also wants it to be able to take a scope.

Given this I recommended a used AK. Good thinking there? I know it aint exactly a sniper rifle but as I mentioned he doesn't expect one on his budget he just wants decent long range ability within his budget. I also recommended that a lever gun would be a good choice if he can find a used one in his price range. Even though there is no detachable magazine it holds a decent amount of rounds depending on exact model and caliber. Bolt actions he wants to stay away from, the time to cycle the bolt has him off because he wants all around utility and the ability to fire quickly.

So good thinking in an AK? And any other ideas yall can come up with? Going to be going local so nothing that is to terribly uncommon.

 

[gripper]

How about a Saiga .308....or even one of the 7.62X39's.Ifr he is on a budget,maybe an SKS of good make,use the leftover fundage to "tweak" it(trigger,sights,etc).
Does it have to be an autoloader?If a good boltgubwould suffice,maybe a Finnish m39...no accuracy troubles with THAT one.

 

[Wes Janson]

$350 is pretty low, it seems like to me, if he wants something fairly (1-2 MOA?) accurate at 200-300 yards. He could always buy a CMP rack grade Garand for $395 plus $22.95 for shipping, although that's not a removable magazine. Another $100 or so (~$450) and he might be able to get a Kel-Tec SU-16. Other than that, unless he finds a really good deal on a used rifle, I'd guess the only real options would be an SKS or cheap AK-variant. I can't think of anything else off of the top of my head.

 

[minuteman1970]

My favorite suggested "first gun" has always been the Mossberg 500 Shotgun. For around $350, you can have one gun (and several barrels) which can serve the purpose of home defense, small game, trap/skeet, deer, and even muzzleloader.
It won't give you tack-driving precision accuracy, but with a rifled slug barrel, a scope, and the right slugs, it can give you pretty decent groups at 100 yards.

 

[Taurus 66]

I've never been a huge AK fan, and I wasn't aware you could get one for under $350. Is 7.62 his caliber of choice or what caliber range are we talking?

Most lever action models will exceed $350, unless used (secondhand/thirdhand, fourth, fifth, ready for the trash can). My best advice is if that's all he has for cash is to wait it out and build on the till awhile longer.

 

[Lupinus]

I suggested shot gun, he wants a rifle and he asked me to help him pick something, not push on him what he doesn't want so I stopped there with that lol.

I also thought SKS but haven't yet mentioned it to him.

7.62x39 isn't a specified caliber but given the fact he wants something with some ompf but still affordable to shoot it is the round that came to mind first.

Also, used is of course not a problem with his price range.

We are going out tomorrow to see what the local shops have and what kind of prices.

Oh well, at least it is an excuse to go to the toy store and fondle some guns lol

All the specifications and ten bucks says he ends up picking up a .22 because he can plink all year for what a day of shooting will cost him with some other guns, and even if not optimal a .22 with decent capacity will indeed defend the home, esspecialy with a good shot (which he is allbeit a bit rusty)

 

[TeachMe]

Given the price requirement and desire for long range accuracy I would check into the Stevens Model 200 (seen here). I have not personally handled or fired one of these, but from my understanding they are Savage actions without the Accutrigger. Reviews I read stated that these are an outstanding value. Again, this is only what I read not personal experience.

The downside to this is the lack of iron sights, but if he is interested in long range target shooting he may have planned on mounting optics. He could also buy a Savage package with scope included and likely be within budget.

If possible, get him to try a few different rifles of various actions so he can refine his search.

Edit--I missed the no bolt requirement, but I still think it's worth considering. Otherwise SKS is a good first rifle.

 

[Lupinus]

he does want to scope it (not included in budget, it'll come later)

but since he wants it to be well rounded and good for HD situations I'm leaning twoards irons being needed.

And as said, he isn't looking for match grades and I think the desire for long range work is more of an added bonus if he can get it sort of thing then it is a requirment. Will get some more ideas tomorrow when we are handeling guns and seeing what is avalible around here in his range.

 

[mole]

I would have suggested the Mossberg 500 as well. Maybe a Finnish Mosin and a used .357? Maybe a Ruger 10/22 in .22 mag. I can't think of anything to meet all his requirements well. Maybe he should save up and get an AR. It would fit the other requirements and he'll already be familar with it.

I'd really like to know what you find. I've in the market for a new toy myself and though about heading your way Friday. Stay away from Grady's, they really like their stuff. You ever find somewhere to shoot?

mole

 

[Lupinus]

We did touch on a .22 as something to get for now untill he can afford better, .22 mag wasn't something that crossed my mind and could definatly be a choice. Would offer a bit more power then .22lr and still cheap enough ammo that it would be cheaper then most other rifle rounds, also the gun should still be affordable for him. .22 mag might definatly be something to look into.

I did think of an AR but in general a good AR is pretty expensive and well out of his price range. Will probably check out the AK (an varients) as well as add .22 mag guns to the list.

 

[Will Learn]

You could go for a Marlin 336 (30-30), I just picked one up at Walmart couple of weeks ago for $300. SKS's are always an option although ammo has been more expensive lately. I bought a Stevens model 200($320) a few months ago and am happy with it. You just have to factor in the scope and mount costs on top of the rifle. Good luck.

 

[Jack Straw from Wichita]

How about this?

For $350, he should be able to get a K-31 and a decent used pump-action shotgun (Mossy 500 or Rem. 870). Ammo for the K-31 is not the cheapest, but it's a fine rifle for the money.

-Jack

 

[OldSchooler]

Range is the core issue here, it seems. Many guns will do in the other departments.

30 cal Russian would do, in an SKS or AK and would be a worthy choice. If I were to make that choice, it would be the AK would

But, here's an option not mentioned:

Have him hunt up a Rem 760 in .308. The cartridge would first and foremost give a large margin of range, something the 7.62x39 will lack in by comparison.

Magazine fed, powerful cartridge, better than usable accuracy, reliable and easy to field and operate. As a military trained shooter, he should have little difficulty getting used to the pump action and would be in good stead later, should he opt for a pump shotgun (as he should).

Its dubious as a home defense weapon, but you could
handload it with 110 grain plinking loads for that, if you must.

 

[rangerruck]

I would go with a Saiga, in any cal , if he wants an ak style weapon, or if he wants a rifle, A savage will get him to shoot itty bitty groups cheaply, for true!
Plus you can order Savage in a variety of configs.

 

[SnakeEater]

Tell him to save his money until he can afford a PTR-91. It will fulfill all of his requirements nicely. He's almost halfway there now. Pawn some junk, have a garage sale, donate plasma, work a second job, get a loan, use a credit card, etc.

 

[Outlaws]

I would tell your friend that if he lives in the city that rifles are not very polite to use for home defense. Those rounds will generally travel through a few walls before stopping.

If he wants home defence, a shotgun or a handgun is much better. Then get a 22 rifle for a $100 to shoot for fun.

An AK isn't gonna look very good if he ever has to shoot it and kills his neighbor on accident. Not to mention they will probably hate you if they are in their living room and out of no where an AK round smashes into their television. No matter how right he is in firing on someone indruding his house, I would personally loose all respect for someone that started spraying high powered rifle rounds all over smack dap in the middle of a neighborhood. I don't care if it is his only line of protection. If he does kill a neighbor, he will get charged no matter how justified he was at shooting the intruder.

Ruger makes a 9mm and .40 carbine. They are not that expensive. Maybe a $400 or $450? PC9 I think its called.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=4701&return=Y

 

[Evil Monkey]

An AK isn't gonna look very good if he ever has to shoot it and kills his neighbor on accident. Not to mention they will probably hate you if they are in their living room and out of no where an AK round smashes into their television. No matter how right he is in firing on someone indruding his house, I would personally loose all respect for someone that started spraying high powered rifle rounds all over smack dap in the middle of a neighborhood. I don't care if it is his only line of protection. If he does kill a neighbor, he will get charged no matter how justified he was at shooting the intruder.

EVERY gun will not look good, but crap happens and people have to live with it.

You say you would loose respect for some one doing what you've stated in the nieghborhood....but you would'nt loose respect for the person doing the same thing but with a Ruger carbine and a huge 30rd after-market magazine?

Oh and why would some one defending thier home go out and shoot around the neighborhood?

 

[Outlaws]

EVERY gun will not look good, but crap happens and people have to live with it.

You say you would loose respect for some one doing what you've stated in the nieghborhood....but you would'nt loose respect for the person doing the same thing but with a Ruger carbine and a huge 30rd after-market magazine?

Oh and why would some one defending thier home go out and shoot around the neighborhood?

You should re-read my post.

First, a 30 round mag of 9mm isn't the same as a 30 round mag of 7.62AK rounds.

Second, I didn't mean shooting in the middle of the street. Someone shooting AK rounds in the close confines of most city houses that I know of will EASILY enter other peoples homes MUCH MORE EASILY than a 9mm or even a 45 or 357.

Gun safety is about not pointing a loaded firearm at anyone you don't want to eliminate. Well, pointing something that will shoot the perp PLUS go through 2 or 3 walls with ease is also NOT practicing gun safety. Thats just reckless. If you were my neighbor would you like me to use my 300WIN incase anyone breaks in. I think you would 'respect' me a little more if I was more modest about choice of weapon for home defense.

For the record I have no problem with "assult weapons". If you have a Class III and want to use a full auto MP5 on someone breaking in, then by all means, pump that scum bag full of lead. But at the same time, please don't have a 50BMG pointed down your hallway right inline with my house just because you have the right to.

 

[dmckean44]

I would take him to a gunshop and show him everything (both in and out of his price range) and let him decide.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Can't think of ONE rifle in that price range to fit all those roles.

I'd be tempted to say Mini 14 but that's more like $500

 

[Lupinus]

After sleeping on it I'm thinking of pointing him in the direction of a .22 either in LR or WMR for now, depending on what is avalible. Wont be great for work out to a couple hundred yards but it will fit all of the other catagories, even the HD. Since most times the showing of a gun is enough and a decent capacity gun with good hunting ammo will still take down a few BG's with well placed shots.

 

[Red Tornado]

I was thinking along the lines of Oldschooler, but I was thinking Remington 74/740/7400. It's basically the same as the 760, but in semi-auto. Has a detachable mag, but I don't think higher capacity mags are available. Also most of them are in 30-06, so surplus ammo would be available. Here's one I found pretty quickly http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976697435.htm that would seem to fit the bill.

Also, keep checking the For Sale ads here and the other gun boards. Old Remington 74/76/7400/7600's seem to come up fairly regularly for really good prices.

That said, I'd point him toward a .22LR for his first rifle, too. But if he insists on a centerfire, Rem's would beat the AK's on power and accuracy.

Keep us posted on what he decides.
RT

***edit***
Here's a742 with a scope and extra magazine in .308, so more cheap surplus ammo would be available http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7511179&aa=%20Remington%20Arms%20Co,%20Inc.%20%20Model%20742%20DLX%20%20308%20w/extras

 

[OldSchooler]

The .22/.22WMRF would be easier and cheaper to shoot and would make a dandy first rifle. I gotta defend the 76xx series pump as being a good compromise all around - especially since we are again beating the "do-all, one gun" drum.

I cant knock the 74xx series autoloader, but the added complexity is just one more thing to worry about, if you were inclined to trifle over such things.
I do recall that Eagle makes after market 10 rd mags for these guns, here's a link to one source:

http://www.bosesguns.com/product_p/eag1001lg.htm

In the end Im going to say that everyone should have at least TWO rifles - one in .22RF and one in something bigger. Save until you can afford both...

 

[Lupinus]

Well he got called into work ysterday so no gun shopping, no gun fondeling, I actually felt kinda depressed about not getting to fondle some guns

LOL anyway back to the regular programming-

I am thinking suggest to him right now to get a .22lr or .22wmr depending if he wants to spend extra money for a bit more whomp and range or a little less for a little less whomp a little less range but still capable and ammo that is as cheap as it gets. Then to save up some more and get the remington (in fact now the wheels are turning about maybe getting one for myself ) in either the pump or semi depending what he wants to go with.

 

[bruss01]

Ruger 10/22 Magnum (new for this year).

This should fit most of what he's looking for, detachable magazine and all.