Friend who doesn't want the Gov't to know

[mljdeckard]

I have actually 'conspired' with friends on a couple of occasions to buy for each other, just to thicken the paper trail. (We were too green to realize at the time that it doesn't eliminate it.) But at this time, in its current form, I have no paranoid delusions about the forms filled out when purchasing a firearm.

It's a little late in the game for me to start worrying about 'the man' looking over my shoulder. In between military service, security clearances started for a variety of reasons, and having been licensed by the state for a variety of sensitive jobs, it's not like they don't know where to find me.

 

[hso]

Jeepmore,

The fundamental mistake is that you actually think this parasite is your friend. He isn't. He's a leach playing you for a sucker by getting you to do all the work for him while he claims some twisted ideology is behind it. Drop him.

I've got plenty of friends that won't buy a gun on paper. Perfectly legal here. What they don't do is ask me to get guns for them under false pretenses. They go out and find them at gun shows or listed in the various papers and pay for them in cash instead of involving me in a conspiracy to commit a felony.

I knew one guy that worked a variation on this scam. He’d get a friend to be on the lookout for some gun and then when it would pop up and he’d get a call he’d say “Great! Grab that before it gets away and I’ll pay you for it.”. Except that he never had any way to pay when they’d get together and the jerk would end up with the gun and this sucker would end up with no gun and out the money for weeks on end. As often as not the parasite would become dissatisfied with the great find and want to dump it back on the sucker or would whine about it.

I bet he has other people using behaviors that go along with this.

Tell this parasite that you're tired of wiping his whiney nose for him and that he can get off his lazy butt and go find his own guns.

 

[Flintlock Tom]

Jeepmor,
If you're in Oregon you need to visit this site:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/faq/

They have tons of information about Oregon gun laws and explanations in simple english.

 

[HankB]

If you go to a gun dealer and buy a gun for him (so he doesn't have to fill out the 4473) that is a straw purchase. Even if he's not prohibited by law from owning firearms.

Only if you use his money, or if he compensates you for it. If you buy a gun as a genuine gift for someone who's not a "prohibited person" that's still OK.

Even Sara Brady(!) was legally OK when she bought a rifle as a gift for her son.

I know this is going to just make him livid . . .

If your not buying him a gift rifle will make him livid . . . not only do I recommend against it, but I suggest - strongly - that you reconsider your friendship with this individual.

 

[ilbob]

Guys like that make me nervous anyway.

He is no friend if he wants you to commit a felony for him.

OTOH, it could be he does not know that it is a very serious crime for you to do what he asks. Maybe just explaining it to him will be sufficient. That would be my first step. If he still thinks you should buy him a gun so his name is not on the paperwork, than maybe you should just look for a new friend.

 

[poppy]

geek

And furthermore, EVERYONE should MAXIMALLY avail themselves of whatever means their state's laws provide them with to lawfully acquire at least one paperless (or minimally papered, depending on your state) armament

That is the position of me and many of my friends. The guy in question may very well be legally able to buy from an FFL, but wants a paperless firearm.

Even though I share this position, I haven't really put it into practice because all of my guns are in one safe, both FFL purchases and paperless purchases. I need another safe.

 

[statelineblues]

Jeepmore - maybe just sit your friend down in front of the computer and have him read this thread............

I live in New Jersey where firearms paranioa is goverment sanctioned and practiced at every level. (I am one of the annointed few in this state with a carry permit, and the hoops one has to jump thru to get one is, to say the least, dizzying). I agree with the rest - tell your friend to grow up and put his name to a piece of paper, or sit on the sidelines.

 

[deadin]

Even in a "private" sale if I am the seller there is going to be "paper" on the gun.
I won't sell a gun to anyone I don't know without getting a copy of their drivers license. If they or someone down the line uses that gun for a crime and it comes back to me as the last "known" owner, I need to know where it went. I may not be "the man", but I will out whoever to "the man" if necessary.

 

[Zundfolge]

Only if you use his money, or if he compensates you for it. If you buy a gun as a genuine gift for someone who's not a "prohibited person" that's still OK.

If it can be proven that YOU bought the gun for HIM so that he could avoid filling out the 4473 and/or go through the NICS check, then that would still be a crime even if you used your own money. Of course with no money changing hands that would be pretty hard to prove, but I wouldn't want to be the test case. However if Agent Schmuckatelli was here watching this discussion (or one like it) that might be enough evidence.


What makes a straw purchase a crime is that you are asked on the 4473 if YOU are the "actual purchaser" of the gun ... in essence straw purchase = lying on a government form.

 

[HankB]

then that would still be a crime even if you used your own money. . . . What makes a straw purchase a crime is that you are asked on the 4473 if YOU are the "actual purchaser" of the gun

Uhhh . . . if you use your own money and aren't getting reimbursed or otherwise compensated, then you ARE the "actual purchaser."

No lie on the Federal form.

I don't see a crime being committed unless you're gifting it to a prohibited person. (I would not do the specific transaction of this thread for reasons covered in my 1st post on this topic.)

 

[Leanwolf]

" ... I know this is going to just make him livid, ..."



I'd back off from this volatile looney in a New York Minute!

L.W.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I don't think it is possible to be TOO paranoid about our government. There's a reason they keep all these various registries of firearms that they routinely claim aren't "registries" because _____ (fill in the blank with the excuse du jour). I fully expect the "authorities" to come looking for my guns one of these days. I mean -- I own three .22s and if the plural of "gun" is "arsenal," than I guess I have an arsenal.

However, despite my paranoia, I reluctantly follow the law and hope for the best. If I were a less timid sort, I might venture into neighborhoods where I don't really belong and buy a gun with no paperwork, but I'm not likely to do that. What I would NOT do is ask a friend to put his name where I am afraid to put my own name.

You need a better class of friends. Tell him he's right. You're convinced that he is correct rather than paranoid, and as a result there's no way in Hades that you're going to buy a gun for him.

 

[hksw]

The fundamental mistake is that you actually think this parasite is your friend. He isn't. He's a leach playing you for a sucker by getting you to do all the work for him while he claims some twisted ideology is behind it. Drop him.

I've got plenty of friends that won't buy a gun on paper. Perfectly legal here. What they don't do is ask me to get guns for them under false pretenses.

He is no friend if he wants you to commit a felony for him.

To be fair, going back to jeepmor's original post,

I've a friend who is absolutely adamant about not purchasing a gun through the normal background check channels for fear of 'The Man' coming and taking them some day. We got in an debate over it and I said, "curses, I'll just go buy one and gift it to you".

The offer was not request by jeepmor's friend but an offer by jeepmor.

 

[lionking]

just to say my 2cents,I would'nt do it.I have 2 lifelong friends who I would do almost anything for but not that.I would'nt even do it for a family member.

sounds like a crock