From a self defense/combat standpoint: what's the deal with thumb safeties?

[Don Gwinn]

I don't know that a "champion" has ever forgotten the safety, but Todd Jarrett told us a story about getting on the trigger as he cleared the holster and therefore shooting a round between his feet.
While practicing alone. 45 minutes from the hospital.


If someone of his experience could have a brain fart and put his finger on a trigger, why couldn't he forget to swipe the safety--or simply get a bad grip?

 

[Ben86]

Useless!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If someone of his experience could have a brain fart and put his finger on a trigger, why couldn't he forget to swipe the safety--or simply get a bad grip?

If he had one accident with a safety, how many would he have had without a safety?

 

[Ske1etor]

If he had one accident with a safety, how many would he have had without a safety?

.

Good point... inadvertently putting your finger inside the trigger guard is breaking the second but MOST IMPORTANT rule of gun safety.

 

[TCmofo]

"What is arguably the greatest combat pistol made"

Maybe for it's time, but in my multiple deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq no one was packin 1911s....if it is so great it would still be in service today. Yeah, yeah you can give me the shtick on contracts and military spending...blah, blah....if it stood so far above the rest as the "ultimate combat pistol" like so many seem to contest in this thread, it would still be in use in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not pickin on the 1911 or sayin that it is a bad weapon or anything so don't take it that way. I am just trying to put the hype into perspective.

As for the thumb safety..some are comfortable with it, some are not. I am of the school of don't put your finger on the trigger...that is the safety.

 

[Ske1etor]

The 1911 was the standard issue sidearm from 1911 until 1985. 74 years.

1st SFOD Delta still uses 1911's.

MCSOCOM Det-1 Still uses 1911's.

The Joint Combat Pistol Program (1911A2 chambered in .45acp) that started in 2004 was ultimately canceled but a new Joint Combat Pistol Program (1911A2 chambered in .40S&W) replaced it. It is still in progress.

When another service pistol passes 74 years of exemplary service in the U.S. Military, it can have the "Greatest combat pistol ever made" title and the 1911 can live out the rest of its days still winning the most shooting championships of any pistol ever designed.

 

[EHL]

Maybe for it's time, but in my multiple deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq no one was packin 1911s....if it is so great it would still be in service today. Yeah, yeah you can give me the shtick on contracts and military spending...blah, blah....if it stood so far above the rest as the "ultimate combat pistol" like so many seem to contest in this thread, it would still be in use in Afghanistan and Iraq. Not pickin on the 1911 or sayin that it is a bad weapon or anything so don't take it that way. I am just trying to put the hype into perspective.

The topic of the thread was the practical use for a thumb safety on a combat pistol. This is getting off topic. But since you started it....
By your logic, the 9mm is a superior performing cartridge over the 45 acp since the US military converted from the .45 acp to the 9mm as it's official caliber. "If it is so great it would still be in service today." They pulled this switcheroo even when the 9mm was considered a less than stellar caliber. You honestly believe that it didn't have much to do with costs of manufacture? Plastic pistols are alot cheaper to manufacture than are solid steel pistols. 9mm is alot cheaper to manufacture than 45 acp. Guess which two the military chooses to mass produce???????

Back to the issue of the thumb safety, I think it just serves as one more level of safety and, in case some perp wrestles the gun away from you, they will have to figure out the safety system before they are able to fire it. This gives you a few seconds to either A. get it back or B. pull out a BUG and use it against them.

 

[Telesway]

If he had one accident with a safety, how many would he have had without a safety?

There is no record of a negligent discharge on the range where I go (have been going for a little less than a year) but I've seen two instances where the shooter failed to disengage the safety.

It would be interesting to see statistics but I doubt anybody has done the research.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I know at least one writer with some experience who advises keeping the thumb safety locked on DA weapons that have thumb safeties -- and cites cases where police officers had their weapons taken, but survived because the bad guy couldn't figure out how to make it go off.

I think it's fair to say that some no-safety guns have record of NDs that exceed that of the M1911.

 

[TCmofo]

Oh no doubt I definitely agree that the 9 mm cartridge is much cheaper to produce, hence it would make sense for the miltary to utilize it as opposed to the .45 ACP. I also understand that the plastic pistols are cheaper to mass produce so that makes sense, but isn't the Beretta M9 is a steel weapon? Sorry to get off topic, just thought it was worth touching on.

 

[easyg]

...but isn't the Beretta M9 is a steel weapon?

Steel and aluminum.

 

[EHL]

Berreta gave the army a sweet deal on the manufactur of their pistols. It saved the military alot of money as opposed to sticking with the 1911.

 

[Gordon Fink]

This is something I’ve been wondering for quite some time:

Thumbsafeties and why they are so popular among self defense-oriented shooters.

How this thread has wandered!

Self-defense and combat aren’t necessarily the same thing, which is why Telesway wondered about thumb safeties (a military specification) on defensive handguns. I wonder about them, too, but I also understand the allure of 1911-style pistols.

~G. Fink

 

[Telesway]

Gordon Fink, good to get back to the point, I forget it at times as well.

I know at least one writer with some experience who advises keeping the thumb safety locked on DA weapons that have thumb safeties -- and cites cases where police officers had their weapons taken, but survived because the bad guy couldn't figure out how to make it go off.

I can understand stuff like extra safety measures (whatever they may be) on guns and locking holsters for LEOs etc. but this thread is about self defense, not use of force (as, I presume, is the term used when a LEO, e.g, uses force to detain a bg) and while there are similiarities between the two, I think they're still different scenarios and the requirements are, again, different.

 

[GeorgiaGlocker]

My first carry gun was a glock and all I have are glocks. I could not function with a thumb safety.