Gang will target Minuteman vigil on Mexico border

Status
Not open for further replies.

rick_reno

member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,027
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050328-125306-7868r.htm

Gang will target Minuteman vigil on Mexico border


By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


NACO, Ariz. -- Members of a violent Central America-based gang have been sent to Arizona to target Minuteman Project volunteers, who will begin a monthlong border vigil this weekend to find and report foreigner sneaking into the United States, project officials say.
James Gilchrist, a Vietnam veteran who helped organize the vigil to protest the federal government's failure to control illegal immigration, said he has been told that California and Texas leaders of Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, have issued orders to teach "a lesson" to the Minuteman volunteers.
"We're not worried because half of our recruits are retired trained combat soldiers," Mr. Gilchrist said. "And those guys are just a bunch of punks."
More than 1,000 volunteers are expected to take part in the Minuteman vigil, which will include civilian patrols along a 20-mile section of the San Pedro River Valley, which has become a frequent entry point to the United States for foreigner headed north.
About 40 percent of the 1.15 million foreign nationals caught last year by the U.S. Border Patrol trying to gain illegal entry to the United States were apprehended along a 260-mile stretch of the Arizona border here known as the Tucson sector.
Many of the Minuteman volunteers are expected to be armed, although organizers of the border vigil have prohibited them from carrying rifles. Only those people with a license to carry a handgun will be allowed to do so, Mr. Gilchrist said.
An operational plan calls for teams of four to eight volunteers to be deployed along the targeted 20-mile stretch of border at intervals of 200 to 300 yards, along with observation posts and a command center.
Mr. Gilchrist said some of the patrols and posts will be right on the U.S.-Mexico border, while others will be located farther north. The volunteers also have been told to "make lots of noise and burn campfires at night to be very visible."
According to guidelines issued to the volunteers earlier this month, organizers said they expect that they will be targeted by various protest groups and others and that some protesters would try to provoke confrontations.
"If we are to send the message loud and clear to President Bush and Congress, it is imperative we stay within the law," Mr. Gilchrist said.
"If one single person steps over the line for their personal gratification, we are all stained with that irresponsible behavior and labeled forever as a fringe element that embarrasses all who are counting on us to make this historic statement," he said.
The MS-13 gang has established major smuggling operations in several areas along the U.S.-Mexico border and have transported hundreds of Central and South Americans -- including gang members -- into the United States in the past two years. The gang also is involved in drug and weapons smuggling.
Gang members in America have been tied to numerous killings, robberies, burglaries, carjackings, extortion, rapes and aggravated assaults. Authorities said that the gang has earned a reputation from the other street gangs as being particularly ruthless and that it will retaliate violently when challenged.
The MS-13 gang, with 20,000 members nationwide, has risen in recent months to such prominence that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, has begun a nationwide crackdown on gang members in this country -- as part of a sweeping law-enforcement initiative known as Operation Community Shield.
ICE agents arrested more than 100 members of the gang during limited raids that began in January in just six cities, including 35 who were taken into custody in Virginia and Maryland. The authorities said MS-13 gang members originally moved into the Los Angeles area in the 1980s.
 
Stay tuned, folks; this is about to get "Verrrry Interrresting"

President Bush siding with Mexican Pres Vincinte Fox against the Minutemen Project.... MS13 gang promising to be involved.....Already high tension in the area......

The Southwest Pressure Cooker is getting hot, indeed.

I remember a link somewhere about gangs in general, and some groups in particular, but I can't find it right now. Think I saw it here on THR

edit:

One link for gang info is:

www.knowgangs.com

Go to the "resources" link from the know gangs home page, for more info that you want to think about regarding gang activity & history. VERY SCARY STUFF
 
Last edited:
"We're not worried because half of our recruits are retired trained combat soldiers," Mr. Gilchrist said. "And those guys are just a bunch of punks."

sounds like Darwinism in action. :D

"The MS-13 gang has established major smuggling operations in several areas along the U.S.-Mexico border and have transported hundreds of Central and South Americans -- including gang members -- into the United States in the past two years. The gang also is involved in drug and weapons smuggling.
Gang members in America have been tied to numerous killings, robberies, burglaries, carjackings, extortion, rapes and aggravated assaults. Authorities said that the gang has earned a reputation from the other street gangs as being particularly ruthless and that it will retaliate violently when challenged."


it appears to me that MS13 is upset because some of their organized crime (people smuggling, importation of drugs, etc) probably goes right through the area where MMP is going to set up.

"The MS-13 gang, with 20,000 members nationwide, has risen in recent months to such prominence that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, has begun a nationwide crackdown on gang members in this country -- as part of a sweeping law-enforcement initiative known as Operation Community Shield."

this makes it easy for the Feds. if you're looking for any of them just hang out by the border. ;)

nobody responded to my last post, but just curious, any THR members participating in MMP?
 
I have read this post twice and still can't belive it. This is about to get very serious. I wish the Minuteman the best.
 
"We're not worried because half of our recruits are retired trained combat soldiers," Mr. Gilchrist said. "And those guys are just a bunch of punks."

sounds like Darwinism in action.

I wouldn't say that. MS13 is purported to be made up of ex paramilitary soldiers. They shouldn't be taken lightly nor treated gently.

Chris
 
MS13 is an El Salvadoran based drug/prison gang. The ex-Mex military group you are thinking of is the Zetas, operating from the border, to deep inside Texas, for the now.
One common mistake we make is to hear "military trained", and automatically assign the same levels of high expertise our own troops are trained to, without realizing the Mex military couldn't root out the Chiapas rebels for YEARS, in a country with brutal gun control. Mexican military training is equal to about Boy Scout level...I think. I could be wrong.
The border violators have an easy time of it, due to BP traveling singly, or in pairs. Despite the bravado, I believe MS13 and any Zetas will try to keep thier distance - it would hurt thier image badly to be the losers in a firefight with American civilians. If they keep sneaking by, they can continue to bolster thier "image" by attacking the weak and helpless....typical thugs.
I certainly hope some MM volunteers will have rifles stashed aside, or the definition of "pistol" for this op is somewhat stretched....and they nail some of these invaders hard. The Good Lord bless them.
 
what will be

Really interesting, if God forbid things do get violent, how will the politicos and/or the media spin it. Politicians have already expressed contempt for the minutemen; will they side with known gangs? Will the everchanging media?
 
Wish i could make it out there to help em'

I don't think i would feel real comfortable potentialy going toe to toe with a bunch of these gang scum armed with only a pistol....
 
Darwinism, yes. But for whom?

The MM are prohibited from using rifles. There are no such restrictions on the gang members.

I wish the MM the best.
 
> The volunteers also have been told to "make lots of noise and burn campfires at night to be very visible."

Well, don't stand too close to the fire, then. I wouldn't be surprised if they take incoming rifle fire.
 
When the story about MS13 threatening the MM first broke almost a month ago, I emailed Gilchrist and asked him his opinion, wished him luck, and told him that I hoped that the members would have rifles nearby.

He replied that he wasn't concerned, that they thought it was just a hoax, and not a real threat.

Didn't say anything about rifles, but from what I have read elsewhere, rifles are prohibited.

Doesn't sound good for the MM project.

I.G.B.
 
MMP between a Rock and a Hard Place...

If in fact the MS13 gang does go after the MMP guys then the MMP guys are in deep, deep do-do.

Why?

MS13

The gang has no compunctions about killing.

The gang can pick and choose the where, when and how thus surprise is on their side.

The gang probably doesn't care about consequences or getting caught.

The gang members who conduct the attacks will probably have worked together before (remember this is an organized crime gang).

There is the very real possibility that the gang members will be way better armed than the MMP. I imagine that MS13 guys have access to automatic weapons, grenades etc.

The gang members are probably younger than the MMP and more physically fit.

MMP

The MMP - not psychotic killers.

The MMP probably will not, cannot be proactive to prevent attacks.

The MMP probably doesn't have that many members actually trained in counter guerilla defense techniques (which is what the gangs essentially are in this case).

Those MMP members with combat experience will have been out of the thick of it for many years especially if they are Vietnam vets.

My impression is that most of the MMP are a bunch of old guys which means their physical conditioning will not be all that great.

If the MMP actually shows up and the MS13 gang makes good on it's threat the only real losers will be the MMP. The media will make them look like crazed racist vigilante gun nuts and IMO will ignore MS13 almost entirely. In addition the government will go after the MMP guys as vigilantes.

This is a no win situation for the MMP guys.
 
The key, I think, is making sure that whatever goes down is EXTENSIVELY documented, with lots of film footage, GPS coords, audio... Even if the MSM tries to make out the Minutemen to be the bad guys, a major shootout on the Mexican border with illegals is going to be REALLY hard to paper over. And the objective of the Minutemen isn't to stop the flood themselves, it's to make it politically impossible for the government to ignore.

The fact is, the public ALREADY wants the border secured. All that really has to be done is to make it a live political issue. And I don't think the MSM has the discipline to refuse lurid footage, even if it gets the public interested in something they want people not to think about.
 
the ban on carrying a rifle just seems ludicrous, especially when being threatened by a group that obviously has access to whatever sort of weapons they choose to use. handgun fire isnt going to do much good against riflemen firing away at long distances.
 
If people just showed up and didn't claim to part of the MMP, wouldn't they be able to carry rifles? They wouldn't be bound by any of the MMP rules, but would still be helping....

If they are operating on private land, the landowner is the one that should determine whether or not rifles can be carried.
 
I hope if all they're carrying is handguns that they're at least something along the lines of this
az-C15P97S.jpg

or this
163460_large.jpg


otherwise (and even with pistols with decent long range capabilities) they might be in big trouble if a firefight were to occur.
 
maybe we can have a Class III shoot somewhere nearby :cool:

AZ is a Class III state. MMP volunteers aren't required to abide by MMP rules if they voluntarily sever themselves from the project. it is, after all, volunteer.

my personal opinion would be not to get involved in this project. it is too political and even you are justified in shooting at someone you'll be on the front page of every newspaper in America and labelled as a "vigilante."

who's gonna take one for the team? i don't think too many of us would. in fact, not one THR member has posted he is part of MMP.
 
Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo will be there is support of the Minutemen, as will "Gunny Bob" Newman (talk radio host for KOA 850 AM). I think that will make it difficult for the government to paint this event with a broad brush.
 
Imagine the reaction if an American Citizen is killed by a gang member who illegally crossed the border to do so.
 
Imagine the reaction if an American Citizen is killed by a gang member who illegally crossed the border to do so.

You would hear something from the ACLU about a poor Mexican kid wanting a taste of the American Dream but having to act in self-defense against a vicious group of redneck militia men. His basic human rights being threated, he had to rely on his natural right to preserve his right to live!
 
I wouldn't say that. MS13 is purported to be made up of ex paramilitary soldiers. They shouldn't be taken lightly nor treated gently.

The leadership perhaps. The average member that you see here in Northern Virginia however, fits the description of a gutless punk to a tee.
 
I imagine that MS13 guys have access to automatic weapons, grenades etc.

Thay do, i have seen coyotes armed with, with AK-47, H&K M-16 and FAL's near the border of Arivaca AZ.


This could get realy bad.......................................................................











What know really :cuss: i'm in South Korea and i'm going to miss all the fun. :evil:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top