Gangbangers in gun stores?

[IcebergDave]

Seeing as though I am not active in LE or in a gang, I am unskilled in the "art" of identifying if someone is truly involved in a gang. Judging someone about how they dress and look to you alone is something that should just be kept to yourself in my opinion. If he/she goes into a gunshop, fillls out the forms, passes the background checks, pays the owner, and leaves without any hassle, then I am not seeing the problem.

You're right, I guess I shouldn't have called 911 on my cell phone the minute I saw the guy in the shop.

Actually, I think it's safe to say that people make assumptions and pass "judgement" on others all day long. This can be both good and bad, but I think people shouldn't be so sensitive to the fact that it happens.

 

[f4t9r]

i have seen this at gun shows and they got away with it , discussing who was going to fill out paper work and who had the money. Seen one group call in somebody to do paper work. Sale guy listened to whole thing and sold the gun when the paper work was done. I thought the whole deal was wrong myself.
I have never seen this at the gun shops I have been ,

 

[k_dawg]

I would not want Feinswien or Kennedy determining if I can purchase a firearm on how they see me; and I try to avoid doing likewise. Where I live, there are plenty of "bums" that are actually pretty stinking rich.


Obviously, if we are talking about actual criminal behavior.. kick their ass out.

 

[spooney]

I've been at gun shows where folks were showing off aryan ink... some of them worry me a little more when they buy a bushmaster then give me and my wife dirty looks (we're not of the same ethnicity)...

+1 We get those people all the time at the gun shows around here.

 

[Chrontius]

A little skinny asian kid, didn't look no more than 19, was fixing to buy a Bushmaster. He was literally jumping up and down! I mean, he looked ENTIRELY too happy to be buying one. He paid cash, $1300 for this one.

Your first example was a good one, but I don't see the problem with the kid.

Hell, just to state the obvious... if I could suddenly afford to pay cash for a new bushmaster, I'd be hard pressed to not skip to the store.

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean...you gotta wonder, why isn't the owner just asking them to leave? I guess it's nice for them to get a huge wad of cash but it certainly makes me nervous. Maybe they are just buying guns with cash because they have bad credit or whatever...I like to give the benefit of the doubt, but I did not walk out of that store thinking safer.

Perhaps they paid cash because there's a 5% discount for cash purchases, like at my local stores? I'd pay cash for a $20 discount I could spend on ammo.

 

[1%er]

The new Division of Homeland Security

Simply amazing, Since when did Washington activate the Federal Bureau of Morality and Dress Codes??? Here's a thought; Mind your own P's and Q's unless 1) its YOUR private sale or 2) its YOUR place of employment !!! If you don't like it LEAVE Those greenbacks are accepted worldwide.



By the way as a side note- There is a ton of posers out there who want people to JUDGE they are tough by DRESSING and ACTING the part!

 

[Harry Stone]

I knew a guy that fit that profile. Young, black, hip hop clothes, gold chains, the wheels on his Escalade cost more than the car I drive. Lots of women around, and always new ones. He always had a big wad of cash in his pocket. I saw first hand the way some people looked at him and thought he was a drug dealer, gang banger or pimp.

He worked with me, he has a degree in computer science and his position at the company was network admin and computer security specialist. I never knew of him breaking the law except for speeding.

I've known quite a few shady people, and every one of them that had guns bought them illegally on the street, not from a FFL. A couple of them looked like bikers, but most of them looked like the average joe. Now that I think of it, every one of them except one is also dead now, and not of natural causes.

 

[Werewolf]

It may not be right but in America today:

PERCEPTION=REALITY

Don't want people to think you are a scumbag gangbangin' ????? then don't act and dress like a scumbag gangbangin' ?????.

It's really that simple...

Art's Grammaw was here.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

A little skinny asian kid, didn't look no more than 19, was fixing to buy a Bushmaster. He was literally jumping up and down! I mean, he looked ENTIRELY too happy to be buying one. He paid cash, $1300 for this one.

I was at the Camp Perry store the first day the Remington 40-X .22 rifles went on sale. There were people of all ages, looking entirely too happy to be buying one, two, or more of the things. I think most of us were paying cash, about $400 per. This was way suspicious, too.

Too happy to buy an AR? What is that?

Regards.

 

[IcebergDave]

Simply amazing, Since when did Washington activate the Federal Bureau of Morality and Dress Codes??? Here's a thought; Mind your own P's and Q's unless 1) its YOUR private sale or 2) its YOUR place of employment !!! If you don't like it LEAVE Those greenbacks are accepted worldwide.

I think you're misunderstanding. I didn't intervene. I didn't call the cops. I didn't do squat. So I was minding my P's and Q's. I'm sure the guy was probably a college professor or lawyer for the NRA. Maybe a plastic surgeon. Although it's awfully strange when he has to call his friend to come and bankroll the thing with a massive wad of Benjamins.

 

[1%er]

I'll see someone there who *really* looks like he's, shall we say, looking for a gun for other reasons then plinking at the range.

Dont be so judgmental, if you have a home defense weapon or a ccw pistol, then you bought it "FOR OTHER REASONS THEN PLINKING AT THE RANGE" too. If you dont like 'em leave, if you dont like how the shop handles them leave. Dont come here and pass judgment on their future intentions based on a 10 minute (OR LESS) encounter !!

 

[Old Dog]

Whoa, dude ... chill, brother. I don't think he was being judgmental; he was the one there, and made on observation based on his instincts ... And it's not a bad thing IcebergDave recounts the incident by us for a sanity check, right?

 

[1%er]

Don't want people to think you are a scumbag gangbangin' a'hole then don't act and dress like a scumbag gangbangin' a'hole.

That is just my point that there are those out there that WANT the normal average everyday law abiding citizen to think that they are a "scumbag gangbangin ?????". The DSM-IV calls it Grandiosity

but that is another thread all in itself

Art's Grammaw wuz here.

 

[Taurus 66]

That is just my point that there are those out there that WANT the normal average everyday law abiding citizen to think that they are a "scumbag gangbangin ?????". The DSM-IV calls it Grandiosity

but that is another thread all in itself

There is a small element of danger even being around those with that style of clothing. For example: Let's say you're in a store shopping and a small group of gangsta look alikes, who are not for real in this example but are just dressing the part - wearing the sagging pants, do rags, gang colors, etc ..) and you are nearby them going about your business. A real gang enters minutes later wanting to rival that gang (only it's not a gang, but the real gangstas don't know this), so a few open up with guns and spray the immediate area - you happen to be too close for comfort. Does this sound rediculous to you? if so, you probably live in a fantasy world. It happens every day and not just in the big cities. It's out in the suburbs.

There are innocent bystanders everywhere who get caught up in gang related shootings. So you think another pimple faced gold tooth moron who wears his hat sideways and pants with the crotch hanging to the knees while listening to the cop killer, woman beating rap hieroglyphic sound thumping 120 decibels cruising along in his Mustang is just another innocent 'freedom of expression'? ... something society should support, at least overlook, or perhaps embrace??

I avoid that appearance altogether. Call me a bigot if you want. At least I'm a bigot whose not associated with the likes of them. It's their freedom to express themselves with whatever attire they wish. It's equally my freedom to choose if I want to avoid them for the sake of safety (and health reasons).

Art's Grammaw wuz here.

 

[spaceCADETzoom]

selling is always the dealers discretion.

i was in a store with my dad a really long time ago. i was just a kid. a gangbanger lookng kid came in looking around rudely asking for something. the owner was with us at that very moment and pointed him to what he was looking for. the owner was of filipino decent and told the clerk to "check his id" in filipino- speak. nothing necesarily wrong there, he looked pretty young. The gangbanger-type got angry and said something like "hey i know what you said, m___f__...just because i dont understand you dont mean i dont know what you said" and started complaining that it was because he was black. he then said "i dont have to buy here, i can go sometwhere else..!" the onwer said, go right ahead, theres the door.

if i were a ffl owner, just in good conscience, id be picky on who i sell to as well...its thier perrogative as a private business owner. id be more likely to sell to a regular joe consumer that can carry a conversation on guns than an angry baggypants kid with cornrows that wants a "glock fowty" and cant pay more than 200bucks... call it profiling, but if you act like an ass, you get treated like one...

 

[Majic]

Anyone ever go in a gunstore and see something at a good price that your buddy has been looking for then whip out the cell phone to give him a heads-up? I guess to some that's the makings of a straw purchase.
Everything you see is not exactly like you imagine.

 

[cz75bdneos22]

i witnessed the following at Houston gun show at Reliant arena..
specifically two white males in their 40's. dressed in Friday casual wear..
one sitting at dealer's table filling out yellow form while
other is standing behind the chair overlooking the first fill out said form.
sitting man turns around after completing form and asks the friend to hand him over the cash to pay for the handgun..man takes out his wallet and counts out bills in other mans outstreched hand...dealer's reaction to seeing this before his eyes, priceless and truly a Kodak moment..

 

[TrapdoorBilly]

Why would a gangbanger be buying firearms from a gun shop? Is it so he can do his next drive by without a guilty conscience? Aren't guns on the street sold cheaper?

Not necessarly. It's been our experience that most gang bangers can't pass the state and or federal background check. Most of the time they just come in look at a few then leave. About 5 minutes after leaving they send in one or two of their ??????? to purchase the exact guns they were looking at, Sorry lady - no sale.

Someone ask it the ATF is co-operative, yes they are, at least here and in some cases, let's just say pro-active.

Art's Grammaw was here.


=======================

Art's Grammaw was here.

Understood.

 

[Optical Serenity]

Typically speaking, those who I find breaking the law most and we lock up, look the part.. And those that we encounter and are very nice and typically get warnings, also look the part. As an LEO I encounter very many people, and typically at their worst, and its amazing how almost always the clothing matches the personality very well.

 

[1%er]

Taurus 66, hope your up for a challenge, find where i said or hell even implied as to the danger or lack there of concerning grandiose behavior, I was simply attesting that it does happen. and that could have been the situation the OP was in, and you have proved my point - if you dont like it leave it will make you happier in the end

Trapdoor is right, and in tighter circles they use members with no felonies rather than their "old lady"


optical -must be a regional thing or a diffrence in definition Gang bangers to me are organized not baggypnts and his 2 friends that grew up on the same block stealing stereos for beer and rim money and want a glock in case shaggy comes by to shake them down again for the 50 bucks they owe him for some weed.




IN MY OPINION is what the OP was refering to as gangbangers, dont come to the net ??????? about them being in your local store, just leave and odds are your two paths will never cross again, especially in denver of all places, where violent crime is 4 times less than atlanta or 3times less than oakland, CA (source for crime statiscics http://www.bestplaces.net/crime/ )


If the thread was called "undesireables making straw purchases", it would have been a totally diffrent discussion but HE threw in gangbangers and really has never given solid reasoning for his choice of words, other than his assumptions


moving on now

 

[FallenAngel]

Is this the same board where 95% of the people are for searching more 18-35 year old men of middle eastern decent at the airports than 80 year old caucasian women, and complaining when people say they are racially profiling?

If I see a young black male in baggy clothing, lots of chains, and handling large wads of cash, you better believe my first thought is "he is probably a banger" and my second thought is "I better get out of here." Am I stereotyping? Yep. Am I right? Maybe. Am I safer? Definitely.

Do I feel bad for this? Nope. As someone said before, perception is reality. If you do not want someone to judge you based on your appearence, too bad; that is the reality of life. If you want to be judged favorably, then be sure you appear in a way that you will be judge favorably.

For the original poster, I have no problems with you guessing that this person was up to no good. From the evidence you had, their APPEARENCE, that is the conclusion you came up with.

To the poster who posted about his friend's asian son who dressed in the "hip hop" style, what else does he expect? I do not mean to be rude, but if you dress like a banger, especially if you are a minority (which many/most bangers are), then you should not be offended when people treat you like what you look like (a banger).

Most people who crash planes into buildings are not 80 year old white women, and most bangers are not 45 year old white men in suits.

 

[Hatchett]

I've seen a few suspicious-looking types at my local gunshop a few times. I never really base any of these suspicions on what they're wearing. (Alabama isn't really known for its snappy dressers anyway.) The only time I really KNEW there was a nogoodnick in the store was when a guy came in and asked for some "bullets for a Hi-Point." The owner asked him what caliber, and the guy didn't know, so he went out to his car (New Orleans plates, 3 days after Katrina, go figure) and came back with a Hi-Point carbine with the crudest illegal hacksaw job I'd ever seen. The dealer looked at the thing and just said, "fella, you'd better get that thing out of here and get rid of it fast as you can before a police officer sees you with it and puts you in jail for a long time."

 

[pax]

a note from Art's Grammaw

Hey folks ~

Please communicate without cussing on THR.

pax

 

[GoBrush]

This has happened to me before as well reminds me of all of the reasons I carry CCW and practice 200-300 rounds per month.

The senerio I LOVE to see are the 60 plus gentleman or woman (could be anyones grandparents) that come into the gun store (probably for the first time) ask very detailed questions about what gun would be good to start with what caliber to start with what is best for home protection etc. Ask about classes offered and questions about where they can shoot. Then plunk their mola down for gun, lots of ammo, and range pass. Even though they usually get the 5 minute safety lesson from the sales man these people are so teachable and want to do everything the right way. I have never asked but offten wanted to ask what life changing experience happend to them to make these changes. I am sure they would have some pretty scary stories to tell. Any way when we see people like this we should stand there and greet them into the shooting and self defense world.

 

[bobhaverford]

i figured i'd throw out some bait and see if there were any bigoted motives behind this threads being posted in the first place. if there was none, i apologize.

Crude, perhaps, but given the number of trolls I've seen lately, not necessarily unwarranted. It might have been worded differently so those of us who endeavor not to be bigots wouldn't have mistaken it for other bait.

If it was as obvious to the store owner as it was to the poster that this was in fact a straw purchase, he should have refused the sale. Since I was not there, I can't judge.

As far as how the people looked ("gangbanger"): I might think some appearances are silly (especially that spiked-gel hair thing all you guys do nowadays, sheesh, stop primping), but that is not the best judge of character or intent.

Also, note the reaction from this thread about a man prohibited from buying firearms but using one to protect himself.

jmm

I smell the smarmy odor of moral superiority oozing from some on this thread. "Man, aren't I morally superior!! You're a racist and I'm not!!" Give me a break. People are all too willing to throw around this particular accusation and it IS TOXIC!

The guy said "gang bangers" and most, myself included, tend to associate said gang bangers with the inner city crowd. Now, if that makes me a racist go ahead and knock yourselves out. But I have employed blacks, homosexuals, women, asians etc in responsible positions. I could care less about their skin color or orientation as long as they DO THE JOB.

So get off your frigging soap boxes and quit pulling out the heavy artillery of calling other "racists" smug in the knowledge of your own superiority.