gas rant.....

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SSN Vet

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Below is a news clip about MTBE from Fox News.

How does it relate to guns......easy....if we can't figure this oil thing out, were doomed to fight a war in the desert every 10 years.

First my commetary / rant..............

Notice that there is no mention that the refiners were required by the states to put MTBE into the gas in the first place.

Nor do they mention that MTBE was used because it burns cleaner and REDUCES exhaust emissions.

Nor does it mention that the refiners spent millions (probably tens or hundreds of millions) of dollars converting their plants to put MTBE into the gas, and that the states locked into 20 year contracts to use it, so the refiners could recoup that cost.

Nor does it mention that the states reneged on there side of deal and are now requiring the refiners to change yet again....

Why? Because the scientist who recommended MTBE in the first place failed to consider that it is water soluble and will go straight into the water table when spilled (as opposed to evaporating).

Once again you can see that the media is determined to vilify "evil industry".
Yes, it's evil industry and Dick Cheney conspiring to make another billion....with GWB in their pocket.

And once again can you see that 50 states regulating energy supplies with 50 different requirements is

1) stupid
2) expensive &
3) jeopordizes our nations critical energy supplies.

But heaven forbid that the media tell you any of this....instead they dumb down and simplify the news as much as possible.

And heaven forbid, regular people be given the whole story, lest they actually think critically. Somebody might have a brain hemogage and sue the paper. Or maybe question the liberal "god's" behind the microphone.

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FOXNEWS.COM HOME > BUSINESS > PERSONAL FINANCE > ENERGY
Gasoline Shortages Reported on East Coast
Friday, April 21, 2006

WASHINGTON — Some gasoline distribution terminals from Virginia to Massachusetts are seeing shortages as the industry phases out a water-polluting additive, the U.S. Energy Department said on Thursday.

The Energy Department has reported shortages at terminals near Richmond, Virginia, as well as the Tidewater area near Chesapeake Bay and Virginia Beach which distribute gasoline to service stations.

Click here to visit FOXBusiness.com's Energy page.

Click here to visit FOXBusiness.com's Autos page.

The terminals, which hold millions of gallons of gasoline in giant tanks, distribute supplies from refineries to gas stations.

Northern Virginia, Baltimore and Boston are also seeing shortages, the department's Office of Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability said.

The Baltimore-Washington, D.C. area has some of the highest retail gasoline prices in the country, with pump prices above $3 a gallon at many stations for regular unleaded fuel.

The shortages are not because refiners are not making enough gasoline, or because of a recent rupture on the key Plantation Pipeline that carries supplies from the Gulf Coast to the East Coast, industry officials said.

Rather, the oil industry is rapidly eliminating a gasoline additive called MTBE, banned in several states for polluting ground water, and replacing it with ethanol, a renewable fuel that can't be shipped by pipeline because it absorbs water.

"There's not a shortage of supply," said John Eichberger, a spokesman for the group. "It's a transitional issue."

Because ethanol is a solvent, it will strip corrosion and impurities that build up inside gasoline storage tanks, allowing them to mingle with gasoline supplies,

That means terminal operators must drain giant tanks that hold gasoline stocks and scrub out the impurities before they can be refilled with ethanol-enriched gasoline, he said.

"That's going to compromise supplies for awhile," he said.

The American Petroleum Institute said 40 percent of the gasoline produced in the United States by the first week of April was blended with ethanol, up from 33 percent a year ago.
 
You're right about scientists not predicting the environmental side effects of MTBE.

As far a being required, some cities required MTBE to be blended into gasoline in order to sell there. I believe Los Angles was one of those cities. MTBE was to help eliminate smog.

Specialty blends still exist for some metropolitan areas (minus the MTBE). I want to say LA (and LA basin), San Francisco and Denver, CO as examples. Gasoline is not interchangable between locals that have "special formulation" requirements - which, as you noted, only adds to the supply problem.

Until we get substantially away from oil (not totally away), we indeed are doomed to these horrible alliances.

Corn based ethanol should help if:
1. Industry is convinced that oil prices will remain high long enough to make ethanol production facilities a good investment.
2. The oil industry doesn't lobby to block ethanol production
3. The environmental groups let you build it (NIMBY - not in my back yard)
4. The auto makes build cars that can use it. Yes, the technology is there, but how many people do you actually know have vehicles that can run on ethanol?



I'll go on to rant that we, as a country, have only ourselves to blame for our current dependence. Just like our border problems. Like Social Security. The Baby Boomers may well go down in history as the generation that could not gather the political will / intestinal fortitude to address the major challenges of their times before they became living world fiascoes.
 
Cut my consumption

Last week (thanks to the weather) I started riding my old Vespa scooter to work at least once a week and doing almost all my weekend errands on it.

My Ford Explorer gets about 18 to 20 Highway miles, not bad for a small truck, but the scooter gets 130+ mpg and a fill up of the 1.7 Gal tank costs about $2 to $3 when I switch it to the reserve.

I figure I've cut my weekly gas usage by at least 20%. Price keeps going up? The scooter gets more miles on it.

I may need to get a better rainsuit though.
 
If you want to rant go to sfgate.com and read the poll they conducted. Yes it's a leftist paper. But the people are whining that the oil companies are making profits and are being blamed. So buy a car that uses less fuel. In 1997 when I moved to the San Franciso area I told my wife get ready for $5 gas prices it's coming. I ride a motorcycle rain or shine, how else can a poor serf survive, note I also work a second job. To quote the President only in America you can work three jobs.

I was a kid in the 70's and remember the odd and even license plate gas days. They had all these ideas for alternate fuels that went no where. The only way things will change is if some corporation will make money off of it. But since we are still dependent on oil, we'll use it 'til it runs out. Change by the government and corporations is slow and long. I would love to own one of the hydrogen fueled motorcyles! But the cost of the bike and no where to fuel it hold me back.
 
This relates to guns for me. $600+-per-month gas bills have definitely taken a bite out of the funds I have available for ammo and range time.
 
SSN Vet said:
How does it relate to guns......easy....if we can't figure this oil thing out, were doomed to fight a war in the desert every 10 years.

$3.11/GALLON here at noon! :what: Went up 20 cents since yesterday...:mad: Some are saying shortages on East Coast already!

IT IS OUR OWN FAULT...

If we built refinaries and did exploration in Canada and Alaska we would have alternatives now... instead we have only high prices.

The solution, in my opinion, is not smaller hybrid cars but more exploration and more acceptance that instead of a national park we will have more oil fields! As Americans we want it all! We want pristine national parks and we refuse to compromise said parks with new oil fields and we refuse to build new refinaries! So we are now stuck with high cost foreign oil and petroleum Czars that raise price every 2 hours! An Exxon Executive just retired and received a $150 milliion bonus! :eek: Be mad at him!

btw... this topic is gun related in the sense that if gas becomes tight and shortages become everpresent you will need your gun just to protect what little gas you have!
 
I checked around my area, unfortunately the e85 ethanol stations are only near the Pentagon :(

When it takes off, I will gladly sell my old beat-up truck and get a new one to run on ethanol.

Just think about how much corn we can grow here . . .

Of course, we'll still need oil for plastics, but I imagine that's a lot less than the energy requirements . . .
 
Check this out, www.dieselveg.com.

Our european friends have been doing this for awhile.

I also read an article in Diesel Power magazine about a guy who converted his Dodge Ram Cummins engine to run on waste veg. oil.

I would like to see the long term effects on a diesel engine running this kind of fuel.

Can somebody tell me why we dont have more diesel vehicles in this country???

Aside from class 8 trucks and heavy duty pick ups everything around is a gasser.

My Dodge Ram 1 ton dually gets over 20mpg on the highway. Compare that to my old GMC that got less than 10 mpg and couldnt get out of its own way pulling a trailer in the mountains.

With my diesel Ram its like the trailer isnt even there.
 
"Last week (thanks to the weather) I started riding my old Vespa scooter to work at least once a week and doing almost all my weekend errands on it."


Agreed, I just spent the last week rebuilding the Honda 70 Passport scooter my wife drove in college. 120 MPG and I am now ridding it to work and on errands that I do not need my truck.

Just glad I live in an open carry state and just strap the AK across my back to go to the range. Hmmm, I bet the lines at the gas pump thin out rather quickly in front of me, not too mention I bet I get plenty of room on the road. I see plenty of advantages.
 
http://www.e85fuel.com
http://www.livegreengoyellow.com

Bio-deisel ain't the solution - Not nearly enough waste oil to fuel a large number of vehicles.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells have a huge chicken and egg problem. NO one wants to pay the expense to equip stations to dispense hydrogen until there are cars on the road that will use it. And no one wants to buy a car that runs on hydrogen until it's as easily avaliable as gasoline.

E85 allows for a transition. First they build cars that run on both E85 and Gasoline. Then once E85 is as common as gasoline they start building cars that run on E85 or straight Ethanol. Eventually there will be nothing but ethanol. Older cars will have to be retrofitted to burn Ethanol/E85 or gasoline will become difficult to get.

I am also buying a new motorcycle.
 
The science guys discoveered that MTBE allowed gasoline to meet the EPA mandate for clean-burn fuel. EPA approved MTBE for motor-fuel use.

It's been about four years since the harmful side-effects were first discovered. Groundwater in Santa Barbara, California, IIRC.

Unfortunately, EPA won't relax the clean-burn rules so that the refiners can recoup losses. "Boutique"" gasolines, remember?

Between enviornmental emotionalism and foreign-affairs "nation-building", we've dug ourselves into a pretty deep hole.

The overall picture, seems to me, is that we'll see even more governmental regulations and economic hard times due to transportation costs in both shipping, commuting and vacation travel.

Such usually leads to more losses of civil liberties of one sort or another.

Art
 
Hydrogen Fuel Cells have a huge chicken and egg problem. NO one wants to pay the expense to equip stations to dispense hydrogen until there are cars on the road that will use it. And no one wants to buy a car that runs on hydrogen until it's as easily avaliable as gasoline.
One does not need fuel cells to use hydrogen as a motor fuel. The stuff can be burned in conventional IC engines with some moderate modifications. H2 storage is an issue, but not insurmountable.

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/

No need to build out a huge distribution system for gaseous or liquid H2 either. Hydrogen can be extracted from plain old H2O via electrolysis. Gas stations around the country already have feeds of water and electricity, so all thats needed is the means to crack the water, store the H2 and the equipment to connect to fuel tanks in vehicles.
 
We'll adapt. It has only been a couple years since gas was under $2. I remember when gas was under 50 cents, and I had to drive a Renault Dauphine to get 50 mpg.
 
Well, what I can do personally about it all is what I've done about it already. My wife drives a 40 mpg Toyota and I have three street legal motorcycles. My GoldWing has a hitch for towing my dirt bikes and racers and little pop up camper, but I have a Van, too. I think of it as a motor home, hardly drive it. But, occasionally I need the towing capacity. It's a conversion van, small block Chevy, class three hitch. I use it for business, too, but mostly I'm on my motorcycles.

Now, I'm ready for alternative fuels. I'll rejet probably my little 80 mpg 200cc DP (street or dirt) bike first to handle E85. I'm a mechanic, I can figure it out. ;) There is this article on msnbc.com I read recently about a new battery technology that will make electric vehicles practical, finally. There is a scooter to be marketed soon that will use the new battery technology, lithium-ion. This thing is to run 60 mph, run 100 miles on a charge, and take only 90 minutes to charge from scratch. That's pretty awesome and will be very handy for me riding around the area. It is to MSRP for $2000. Cars will be practical on this technology if and when the infrastructure to charge the batteries and quick change them at stations comes around.

But, folks will still need towing capacity. There are travelers and their travel trailers, guys like me with boats, and don't forget the farmers. One easy thing to do is start distribution of bio diesel. E85 is a possibility. But, it'll take combinations of such technology to get it done. No one fuel currently is the answer. Eventually hydrogen may be, but I'm just sayin' as the price of gas climbs, get off your duff and get a plan, don't cry to the government about it. The best incentive for a change is economics, not government regulation. I plan to work my way toward getting that electric scooter when it is marketed. For now, I have the bikes, a Wing that gets 35 to 40 mpg, a SV650S which gets about 45-50, and my 200 which gets 80+.

Okay, I admit, I have been riding motorcycles for 40 years and it is part of me at this point. I always take the bike unless I have to haul something or have another reason to drive. I hate driving, love riding. Also, I live in the sunny south where riding is year around. My answer may not work for you, but everyone can do SOMEthing to cut down on fuel usage.

</rant>
 
Pedal power

Very fortunate to me, I can ride my bike. I moved from the suburbs to be near the University because I couldn't stand the driving around me on the way in. Ever since I ride by bike. A tank of gas might last a month or two.

When I was in the suburbs I also rode the bike the 22 mile round trip, but not every day like I can now.

have a great day
cavman
 
Lets tell the WORLD that America will begin to drill for and produce oil from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) next month. The price for an imported barrel of crude will crash, overnight.

visit here.....http://www.anwr.org/
 
Gas stations around the country already have feeds of water and electricity, so all thats needed is the means to crack the water, store the H2 and the equipment to connect to fuel tanks in vehicles.
The oft overlooked problem that I see with H2, is that currently it takes more energy to extract it via electrolysis and other methods than it produces when burned. We'd be better off with electric-only cars as far as efficiency. Sure, you can make H2 with electricity and water, but that electricity is likely coming from burning coal, so it's not really getting around the use of fossil fuels. Unless we can find a reliable method to obtain H2 that uses less energy than burning it creates, I don't see H2 being a viable long-term solution.
 
price gouging

I received an email yesterday that was a recommendation from a retired Cocoa Cola executive named Phillip Hollsworth.

He and other; engineers, executives agree that the best way to fight this is to boycott Exxon and Mobile; the two major "players" here in the USA.

I agree that something must be done, and if enough people participate it may cause some thinking as to why the retiring CEO of one of those had a retirement package given to him of fourhundredmillion dollars!

Fight back with your money.
 
Boycotting an oil company won't do squat. It's a lot more complicated than that. We're losing oil producing capacity, the world demand is rising, speculation over this and that is driving up the price of crude. The deal is, REDUCE DEMAND long run! It will take changes in travel, in lifestyles, to do. It won't be easy, but there really is no alternative in the long run.
 
MTBE was not mandated. Oxygenates were mandated in certain areas that were not meeting clean air targets. Industry favored MTBE because it was cheaper than ethanol, and the EPA failed to look at the long term consequences to groundwater suppies before they approved it.

And no, we cannot produce enough corn ethanol or oil-seed biodiesel because all of those crops require a lot of fossil fuels to grow. Diesel for the tractors, natural gas for fertilizers, oil-based pesticides, etc. Not to mention the fuel needed for transport.

Switchgrass ethanol seems to be the best option at the present, but it won't allow us to keep consuming at the rate of projected demand growth. Nothing will. Fortunately, there will some time to transition while fossil oil depletes. But we are still probably in for a big recession, if not depression.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6290392

A dream no more
The man considered China's father of advanced technology says the progress has been remarkable when it comes to batteries and cars. "A 400 kilometer (250 mile) range is not a dream anymore," Wan Gang told Challenge Bibendum participants.

That kind of range, which comes with a charging time that's been halved, is comparable to today's gasoline powered cars.

Wan, who heads China's alternative automotive technology program, has big plans for batteries, starting with scooters.

"Electric two wheelers confirm they are a mature and sometimes outstanding solution," Wan said.

Urban officials agree, with bans since 1996 on new two-stroke production in key cities. Anyone with a discerning eye can quickly distinguish the electrics from the gasoline scooters, most notably because the former make little noise while traveling at slower speeds.

The focus on scooters coincides with a boom in sales — bigger even than the more talked about explosion in car sales. In Shanghai, for example, scooter ownership went from 100,000 in 1996 to 630,000 in 2001. The growth in cars was one third of that.

China is also eying its bus fleet and hopes to use the 2008 Olympics in Beijing and the 2010 World's Fair in Shanghai to jumpstart cleaner mass transit. Each city wants to deploy hundreds of electric buses by those years, replacing dirty diesel transport. Some are already being tested on routes.

As for family cars, Wan doesn't expect a wholesale conversion to electrics but he notes that in Shanghai, China's wealthiest city, "the upper class already have two cars." So as the rest of China advances, he asks, why not think of electric vehicles as the perfect second family car?

Home-grown company
Yoshida's experience was with ThunderSky, a privately held company agressively trying to market the technology at home and abroad.

CEO Lindo Ho told MSNBC.com that the batterymaker had also caught the attention of a French carmaker.

Lithium ion batteries, Ho added, break "the bottleneck" that had plagued electric vehicles, noting that ThunderSky's bus has a range of 180 miles and a recharge time of just three hours.

The company has also developed an electric scooter with a 95-mile range, 60 mph top speed and a 90 minute recharge time, she said. Plans are to partner with a scooter maker and sell it for around $2,000.

She's even hopeful that within five years electric cars for families could be available, but achieving that, she says, requires government help to develop a charging infrastructure for the public.
 
Well folks, you'll be happy to know that corn based ethanol is getting cheaper. We can now use cellulose to create ethanol (a google search for Cellulose Ethanol will turn up a wealth of info) in addition to corn and sugar. Oh, processed sugar isn't "evil" at all. White, granulated sugar is made by putting the more raw sugar (which is kinda gold colored due to molasses) in a centrifuge and spinning it to remove molasses.
At any rate, Brazil has made huge strides in ethanol production and use and has reduced its dependence on foreign oil from as high as 80% to as low as 15%. Brazil also has land, that while unsuited to food crops, is great for growing oil seeds. This means Brazil is standing ready to begin much larger scale biodiesel production.

The USA, while not the largest growers of sugar, have plenty of land for more sugar beets as well as land to grow corn and other cellulose products for ethanol production. This could mean less subsidies to farms and more farmers back to work. This could mean more forest lands planted as wood ethanol gains demand. The greenies are happy, corporate America is happy, consumers are happy. It would cut demand for foreign oil by a wide margin, but so many products are oil based that even the foreign oil producers would still make money.

The biggest question is when do we start mandating flex fuel vehicles from manufacturers and start focusing on ethanol production.
 
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