Geez, how back-stabbing are some people?
- Thread starter The Swede
- Start date
- Status
We like to think of ourselves as financially, socially and emotionally responsible individuals in our purchases, including firearms. Well, things have changed.
Due to a fear factor fanned by reports of a renewed AWB ban (much of which is misunderstood, more on this later), a growing percentage of firearms currrently are bought neither reasonably or responsibly. And this is where the original poster rants against "backstabbing". For a lot of new buyers, guns have become a fad.
When demand suddenly floods the market because of panicked and uneducated buyers, fear-mongering works. This is where misunderstanding, a lack of verified information, and total technical ignorance re: firearms, adds fuel to the fire. Gun and safe sales have been breaking records for the last few months.
But inflation (and even capitalism) doesn't explain everything, and as I read, not even the main point. Fear-mongering is, though, and it is despicable. Read some of the other threads to see who show up at gunshows these days, and one understands the old Barnum gem: "There's a sucker born every minute,....." Is it any wonder they're coming out of the woodwork to part these shoppers and their money?
Backstabbing??? I can think of some better words: opportunistic, lying (in the more egregious cases) and people-our-sport-would-do-better-without, are some.
Of the multitude of gun-owners in the sport, there are 2 kinds who will always be at odds: those who see guns as a symbol of our freedoms, and those who see guns as an opportune way to make quick money. The first group will be with us, forever. The second group will move on when the panic-buying passes.
I hope.
Due to a fear factor fanned by reports of a renewed AWB ban (much of which is misunderstood, more on this later), a growing percentage of firearms currrently are bought neither reasonably or responsibly. And this is where the original poster rants against "backstabbing". For a lot of new buyers, guns have become a fad.
When demand suddenly floods the market because of panicked and uneducated buyers, fear-mongering works. This is where misunderstanding, a lack of verified information, and total technical ignorance re: firearms, adds fuel to the fire. Gun and safe sales have been breaking records for the last few months.
But inflation (and even capitalism) doesn't explain everything, and as I read, not even the main point. Fear-mongering is, though, and it is despicable. Read some of the other threads to see who show up at gunshows these days, and one understands the old Barnum gem: "There's a sucker born every minute,....." Is it any wonder they're coming out of the woodwork to part these shoppers and their money?
Backstabbing??? I can think of some better words: opportunistic, lying (in the more egregious cases) and people-our-sport-would-do-better-without, are some.
Of the multitude of gun-owners in the sport, there are 2 kinds who will always be at odds: those who see guns as a symbol of our freedoms, and those who see guns as an opportune way to make quick money. The first group will be with us, forever. The second group will move on when the panic-buying passes.
I hope.
CoRoMo
Member
Try not too assume too much here. If you read enough of the posts on THR, you'll find members with such varying (I should say extreme) views that you would never have anything to do with such a person.
IF the next AWB prohibits the AR15 outright, I'll wouldn't sale my ARs even if I was offered double that. But if I had to sale them for some reason like financial crisis, I'd happily sale mine to my neighbor, or anyone for that matter, for the going price. And it wouldn't be as low as $1,600 if I were to guess.
A "run-of-the-mill" AR might only be worth $400-$500 a year ago, but ban them, and they are all the sudden worth ten times that.
Many people simply believe that we are in between those two places right now.
Gun values (what someone is willing and able to pay at a given time) vary for all kinds of reasons: political, supply, fear, popularity (or unpopularity), etc.
Don't ask me to feel bad about selling a gun for the current market value instead of selling for a few hundred less as a favor to someone who is supposedly "a brother" just because he also likes guns. What I (or any seller) paid for something is none of a potential buyer's business.
Don't ask me to feel bad about selling a gun for the current market value instead of selling for a few hundred less as a favor to someone who is supposedly "a brother" just because he also likes guns. What I (or any seller) paid for something is none of a potential buyer's business.
C-grunt
Member
Maybe Im to young to remember the price gouging in 94 but I bought my first Bushmaster in 02 for 800 bucks.
I think we are strong enough in Washington to repeal a total ban. We might not be able to stop another ban like Clintons where certain cosmetic things are banned. I personaly think that all these people will feel foolish in a couple years when their 1600 dollar AR is now 800 again.
My two favorite local gunshops will continue to get my business because they still sell their ARs and other EBRs for a reasonable price.
I think we are strong enough in Washington to repeal a total ban. We might not be able to stop another ban like Clintons where certain cosmetic things are banned. I personaly think that all these people will feel foolish in a couple years when their 1600 dollar AR is now 800 again.
My two favorite local gunshops will continue to get my business because they still sell their ARs and other EBRs for a reasonable price.
1KPerDay
Member
What?? You mean you believe in capitalism?? *thud*
It's not the arrogance of the seller I mind so much these days. Really, I don't have to have his product. I can consider alternatives.
It's the desperation of some buyers that gets me - not the guys shelling out to resell even higher, but those who actually believe gun prices will go up. They buy, and make it happen. Don't blame the seller.
Did they need an AR in their hands right then? Were they so locked into tactics, or belief of a real and measurable superiority that ONLY an AR would do? Anybody paying those prices is a willing participant in their own (for lack of a better term) rape.
AR prices would never have gone up if the unprepared and ignorant would just back off and get a lever action or shotgun. They would even be better off. With the change left over they could by a handgun and ammo for both.
With that kind of kit they could do a lot more in self defense than appear as a target to speculators or the rabid mob.
Remember: if it's popular, something's wrong. When the masses run to get their hands on something, like Cabbage Patch dolls and Pet Rocks, you really need to think it through why you should even bother.
Buy a house in a balloning market, or buy one and get debt free like I did.
Buy a new SUV with minivan front halfshafts, or an older Cherokee with real 4WD and no payments.
Buy a EBR in a inflated market, or shop around the gunstores for a working old lever action - with the money I had from selling my HK91.
All the stuff I got I keep and use. I don't let public hysteria and fads drive my decision making, and I don't lose any sleep over it. Other than dreaming about my new to me cool stuff.
It's the ignorant panic stricken impulse buyers who cause the problem.
It's the desperation of some buyers that gets me - not the guys shelling out to resell even higher, but those who actually believe gun prices will go up. They buy, and make it happen. Don't blame the seller.
Did they need an AR in their hands right then? Were they so locked into tactics, or belief of a real and measurable superiority that ONLY an AR would do? Anybody paying those prices is a willing participant in their own (for lack of a better term) rape.
AR prices would never have gone up if the unprepared and ignorant would just back off and get a lever action or shotgun. They would even be better off. With the change left over they could by a handgun and ammo for both.
With that kind of kit they could do a lot more in self defense than appear as a target to speculators or the rabid mob.
Remember: if it's popular, something's wrong. When the masses run to get their hands on something, like Cabbage Patch dolls and Pet Rocks, you really need to think it through why you should even bother.
Buy a house in a balloning market, or buy one and get debt free like I did.
Buy a new SUV with minivan front halfshafts, or an older Cherokee with real 4WD and no payments.
Buy a EBR in a inflated market, or shop around the gunstores for a working old lever action - with the money I had from selling my HK91.
All the stuff I got I keep and use. I don't let public hysteria and fads drive my decision making, and I don't lose any sleep over it. Other than dreaming about my new to me cool stuff.
It's the ignorant panic stricken impulse buyers who cause the problem.
The Swede
Member
Ok, well thanks to most of you for swaying me. Now that I know people are willing to pay out the nose for an AR I think I'll go sell it to some sucker for $1,600. I just have to take all the crap off it first.
Swede- Send me a list of everything you own and what you paid for it...I might want some of your stuff...brother.
High prices are driven by buyers, not sellers. Let's say I bought an AR for $800. The next day I decide I have too many ARs and as I'm walking down the street two guys yell out an offer at the same time. One yells $900 and the other had yelled $1200. These guys are both my family and my brother right? I sell to the $1200 guy. I can't sell to both, I can't reward one guy for making a lower offer...that makes no sense.
My point is...there is a market, maybe local, maybe regional, maybe national that sets prices based on what people are willing and able to pay. I could ask $5000 for my AR, but it wouldn't sell or I could ask $800 and have 100 people that want it. But if the local shop wants $1300 and they sell every day on GB for $1400 and the only guy with them at $1200 hasn't had one in stock since Holloween.....how is a selling price of $1300 make me a bad guy?
High prices are driven by buyers, not sellers. Let's say I bought an AR for $800. The next day I decide I have too many ARs and as I'm walking down the street two guys yell out an offer at the same time. One yells $900 and the other had yelled $1200. These guys are both my family and my brother right? I sell to the $1200 guy. I can't sell to both, I can't reward one guy for making a lower offer...that makes no sense.
My point is...there is a market, maybe local, maybe regional, maybe national that sets prices based on what people are willing and able to pay. I could ask $5000 for my AR, but it wouldn't sell or I could ask $800 and have 100 people that want it. But if the local shop wants $1300 and they sell every day on GB for $1400 and the only guy with them at $1200 hasn't had one in stock since Holloween.....how is a selling price of $1300 make me a bad guy?
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I find it funny that much of the attitude is that it is Fair Market Value when I am selling it but it is Price Gouging when You are selling it.
Duke of Doubt
member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,863
Double Naught, it's a joke as old as the northern New England hills.
And as real.
And as real.
Ohio Gun Guy
Member
Remember you dont have to buy it. If the price is to high, then it wont be met. If the seller wants to sell, then he will have to drop his price to what the market will bear.
I dont have a problem with this. If I was selling anything right now, I would try to get market price. You have to. Consider this. If you sell low out of an obligation to a fellow gun owner. What is to stop them from realizing the profit potential and sell it for market price. Would you hand a stranger 500 dollars for being a fellow gun collector?
This has nothing to do with appreciation of your rights or anything else, pure capitalism and economics 101.
That said, if it was your brother and you know he only has 700 dollars in it, then you might be a little upset. Just dont turn around and sell it yourself!
I dont have a problem with this. If I was selling anything right now, I would try to get market price. You have to. Consider this. If you sell low out of an obligation to a fellow gun owner. What is to stop them from realizing the profit potential and sell it for market price. Would you hand a stranger 500 dollars for being a fellow gun collector?
This has nothing to do with appreciation of your rights or anything else, pure capitalism and economics 101.
That said, if it was your brother and you know he only has 700 dollars in it, then you might be a little upset. Just dont turn around and sell it yourself!
I've never been price gouged because I never pay the high price that some ask.
In general I dislike these threads. You can basically map out the entire thread. Original poster talks about price gouging. The following posts are a combination of "Yeah that is gouging!" and "Its called supply and demand! Deal with it." posts. Then an FFL will come in and talk about heating, electric and rent expenses like he is the only business on earth that pays bills and therefore we should feel sorry for him and pay 100% over his cost because he provides some type of "special" service. "Yeah...this 12 gauge...its good for hunting". My God, thank you I would have never know here is $700 for that 870 Express.
In general I dislike these threads. You can basically map out the entire thread. Original poster talks about price gouging. The following posts are a combination of "Yeah that is gouging!" and "Its called supply and demand! Deal with it." posts. Then an FFL will come in and talk about heating, electric and rent expenses like he is the only business on earth that pays bills and therefore we should feel sorry for him and pay 100% over his cost because he provides some type of "special" service. "Yeah...this 12 gauge...its good for hunting". My God, thank you I would have never know here is $700 for that 870 Express.
DocBoCook
Member
Profiteering and price gouging is our current culture apparently. No one wants to make a profit, they want to make "crippling to our fellow man" profit. shameful. Hope those people don't ever need fire support and nobody could afford to but one of their guns to support them with
DocBoCook
Member
Gouging is why a gun that costs 200 to make, somehow costs 1000 by the time it gets to you. And yes, I do mean to call the excessive taxation as gouging.
Duke of Doubt
member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,863
"Crippling"?
Dang, man; didn't you buy enough guns already to trade? What were you waiting for? An Obamanation?
Dang, man; didn't you buy enough guns already to trade? What were you waiting for? An Obamanation?
DocBoCook
Member
I'm in the military, I don't make that much. and you can't keep firearms on base anymore (what a friggin oxymoron, military can't keep personal guns on base)
Duke of Doubt
member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,863
You certainly can keep firearms on post as a general proposition -- either in housing or, if assigned to the barracks, in the arms room. The only post I've heard of as an exception is in Alaska. Apparently the CO up there worries about getting fragged. Maybe for good reason.
DocBoCook
Member
You've obviously never been stationed at a naval hospital. The only ones allowed to carry on base at all is security. they do not have an arms room for persons stationed there. Not even when I was at Great Lakes. Ships don't let you, and the only place that did was Camp Lejeune and I was waaaaay too poor when I was stationed there to afford one. Especially with the AWB still in full force
Duke of Doubt
member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 2,863
Oh. You meant the navy.
DocBoCook
Member
Yes, the warrior mentality and weapons readiness went out the window a while back for everyone who isn't a Gunner's mate or a Master at arms (and I can outshoot most of them, they don't get to practice near enough. We spend more on sensitivity training than we do on arms training)
Enginetech88
Member
I went to a gun show this weekend. The one guy had a really high priced semi-auto. Nothing special. Used. Not an AR, or AK. I couldnt get close enough to see what it was. But none the less he was asking something like 1500 for it. This one gentleman asked, I remember you from the last gun show I went to last year. The guy said oh yea, you bought the Mauser from me. They got too talking and the guy asked I remember this gun too, Why is it priced so high. If i recall it was around 550 last year. The guy said yup, and If it dont sell I dont even care. In a few months I will be able to double this price again because only people with special permits will be able to buy any type of semi-auto. So anyone that wants this fine rifle better buy it now. 
I couldnt beleive it. Its so unreal that these guys are doing this kinda stuff. Made me sick. Josh
I couldnt beleive it. Its so unreal that these guys are doing this kinda stuff. Made me sick. Josh- Status
