Get a knock, someone asks for help.

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SomeKid

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No, I don't have a personal angle here. However, the victims from this story were lured by someone asking for help. Story is posted to give the entire thing, but what would be a good defensive tactic if you want to help, but don't want to expose yourself (or if you are a woman, if you want to ensure you won't have your 12 yr old child forced to rape you).

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Gang_Rape_Teens.html?source=mypi

Fla. teens accused of gang rape attack

By BRIAN SKOLOFF
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Two teenagers were accused of gang raping a woman and forcing her 12-year-old son to join in the attack, then beating him and pouring cleaning solution into his eyes.

Authorities allege Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16, were among a group of about 10 masked suspects who forced their way into the woman's apartment in a crime-ridden housing project the night of June 18.

The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults.

"Any rape case is horrible but this takes it to another level, something you can't think of even in your worst dreams," police spokesman Ted White said.

According to the police report, a man knocked on the woman's door at about 9 p.m. and told her he had a flat tire. The mother and son, whom police have not identified, went outside and were ambushed by a group of gun-wielding suspects.

The victims told police they were forced back into their home and beaten and sexually assaulted. According to authorities, the men raped, sodomized and beat the woman, then forced her son to participate in the assault at gunpoint, making him have sex with his mother in front of them.

The boy was then beaten and had numerous household cleaning liquids poured into his eyes, according to the police report.

The suspects also stole a few hundred dollars worth of cash and jewelry, White said.

White said more arrests were expected, but he would not say whether authorities had identified additional suspects. The teens in custody were not cooperating, but Lawson confessed to taking part in the attack, White said. Walker has denied involvement, White said.

DNA evidence in a condom found in the victims' home linked Lawson to the crime, police said. Investigators also say they found a palm print belonging to Walker at the scene.

The victims did not suffer life-threatening injuries and have been released from the hospital, White said.

"They're going through the county victim services for counseling," he said.

Lawson lived in Dunbar Village, the hardscrabble project where the attack occurred. Walker was apparently visiting a friend there, White said.

Authorities believe the suspects all knew each other from the neighborhood, but they don't think they knew the victims directly.

Prosecutors have 21 days from the time a suspect is arrested to formally file charges. Lawson was arrested Tuesday. Walker was arrested Thursday.

Walker made a first court appearance on Friday, after which his father, also named Nathan Walker, spoke briefly.

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

Walker's attorney, Robert Gershman, said Friday he intended to enter a not guilty plea on behalf of his client once charges are formally filed. He would not comment further.

A telephone message left at the office of Lawson's public defender was not immediately returned.
 
SomeKid said: but what would be a good defensive tactic if you want to help, but don't want to expose yourself

Right from the story you linked to:
According to the police report, a man knocked on the woman's door at about 9 p.m. and told her he had a flat tire. The mother and son, whom police have not identified, went outside and were ambushed by a group of gun-wielding suspects.

It helps to not venture outside. We can still offer help without opening the door.
 
It helps to not venture outside. We can still offer help without opening the door.

Bad/Sad story. Even though I put defense top of the list of things to learn, it is hard and ,actually, discomforting to me to treat every encounter with another person with all the tactics of defense in mind. Thousands upon thousands of people help each other every year, but unfortunately hundreds seems to become victims. It is a fine line as always.

On a side note, another reason FOR high cap mags (vs groups of ten) and or a shorty shotgun.
 
Wow. Those criminals deserve to die in the most horrible way imaginable. Those two victims will never ever be the same. What can we learn from this?

1. Do not leave the house.
2. Do not open the door for anyone you do not know and trust.
3. A flat tire is not a life or death situation, they can seek help at a pay phone.
4. If it is a life or death situation you can offer to call 911, from behind your locked door.

I can not think of a good reason to leave my house for a stranger. ("they don't think they knew the victims directly.") If I could help, the situation is not so dire that it can not wait, and if it is dire, then paramedics are needed - not me. The only help you can offer is the 911 call, again, from behind a locked door.
 
This is sad, and you guys hit it on the head. Answering the door unprepared was a bad idea. Going outside was an even more foolish idea.

* As our society evolves in communication (mainly cell phones and email) there is less and less need for ANYONE to knock on another's door, unless they are invited as a guest. 30 years ago, it was common for people to knock on your door- neighbors, traveling salespeople, religious types, etc. Today, in 2007, there are fewer and fewer legitimate reasons to knock on a stranger's door.

Not to sound paranoid, but I do NOT like strangers showing up unannounced, knocking, and expecting me to open the door and talk, etc. :fire:

Flat tire? That is what AAA is for. Walk to a gas station. Don't assume the residents of the nearest house have nothing better to do than help you out. Because as a resident, I'm assuming any stranger knocking on my door (day or night) is possibly up to no good, and I never answer the door light.
 
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An older couple (cousins of mine) were killed in a similar incident a few years back, opened the door and the Scum rushed in.

Unless I know the person they don't get in. I have opened the door and handed the phone out the one time a guy came up late needing help, but I was openly armed at the time and if he was going to try anything I think he might have been dissuaded.
 
When I lived in apartments the dorr was never opened to strangers especially at night

You have to ask yourself
Why would they chose my door among all these other doors ?
 
they can seek help at a pay phone.

Not a lot of pay phones anymore.


the area where this happened is a real arm pit and the victims should have known better than to go outside. I wonder if they might have known one of the criminals.
 
I'll place a call for the person.

Communications are improving by leaps and bounds, true. However, cell phone coverage is, at best, spotty outside of metropolitan areas and along interstates.

Even along the interstates there are large gaps in coverage. My service is with Verizon. On a trip from Dallas, Texas to Knoxville, Tennessee there were long stretches where I didn't even have roaming coverage on the interstate. There are gaps in coverage on my commute to work that stretch from two or three miles to fifteen miles. Rural tertiary roads. If I breakdown in that area, I have the choice of asking some homeowner to call for help on their landline, waiting for a car to stop in an area where I might not see another car for hours, or walking the the nearest town which, depending on my location, could be a fifteen mile hike.
 
#1: Have good, solid exterior doors for your home.
#2: Have STEEL screen doors with good locks covering the exterior doors....in case you need ventilation, AND to dissuade anyone from forcing entry.
#3: ALWAYS look through a window, or a "peep hole" to see who is knocking on your door.
#4: Stranger? NO entry! Yell to them, asking what they want. Emergency? Okay, what kind of emergency?
Depending upon the type of emergency, call the police, the fire department/paramedics, or a local tow service.
The stranger DEMANDS to enter and use your phone? Automatically call the POLICE! Do NOT crack the door open even slightly for them, to allow them the usage of your phone!
#5: If the stranger STILL demands to enter, and you don't want to sound like a "jerk", tell them that you have a contagious disease and CAN'T allow them to enter. Or, tell them that your Rottweiler would attack them if the door was opened. Just remember....if they DEMAND entry, that should prompt you to call the POLICE! Oh, and when you get the police on the line, KEEP the line open, even if you can't talk. Most police agencies will dispatch a unit on an "unknown trouble...open 9-1-1 line" situation.
#6: It might benefit you AND your neighbors if you have exchanged phone numbers with them. If the stranger at your door leaves, but it looks like he's stepping over to the "Jones" residence next-door, call them! Let them know that they're about to have a stranger knock on their door AND that you have already called the police, or are about to call them.
 
Forgetting the specifics of this news article for a moment (I can hardly think about it without bile rising), there are numerous reasons to NEVER let a stranger have access to your home.

A lot of us may think that we are capable of taking care of a threat if one should occur. A lot of us may think that because of size, gender, etc., a threat would not present itself to us and we therefore keep our guard lower.

That's fine-- IF you are never going to leave your home again. A lot of criminals use these tactics to case homes they wish to rob later.

My home was robbed in December of last year. Evidence shows that they new exactly where they were going and what they were taking. They did not deviate from a specific path-- even though there were other "goodies" in view just off thier path. Even the police said it was a job done by someone with knowledge of my house.

Funny thing is that I haven't had a single guest in my home since I've been here. Thinking back, I did let one person use the phone and I've had a couple workers in the home over the last 3 years. It is impossible to see in the windows of this house due to its being one story off the ground level with parking underneath it.

The house was robbed on a Monday morning not long after I went to work.


Short story. There are LOTS of reasons not to let a person in your home. If someone needs to make a call, ask them for the number and dial it if you want to be nice.



-- John
 
The story from the OP makes me sick to my stomach.
I hate to say it, but last time I tried to help a stranger I got 'hosed'. I'm much more cautious these days.
 
the area where this happened is a real arm pit and the victims should have known better than to go outside. I wonder if they might have known one of the criminals.

The article states: "Authorities believe the suspects all knew each other from the neighborhood, but they don't think they knew the victims directly."


Looks like probably not. Makes me want to pull my hair out though. The victims should have not gone outside. What were they thinking? 2 guys can change their own tire. But I have to fight the urge to blame the victim. That is something we all do to protect ourselves. If we can blame the victim, then things can't happen to us because we are not that dumb. Very common pyschological reaction.

I am going to make my wife read this article to impress upon her that I am not paranoid,when I say not to answer the door when I am not home.
 
I too am forced to wonder what their thinking was. Were mom and son actually going to go see what a flat tire looks like?
Yeah crap can happen at any time or place, and we must try to be aware.
But that is so plainly:banghead:
 
Just because it might be nice to have a good ending (or at least, as good as possible), here is a follow up.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/07/s1b_juvenile_0707.html

Charges could net teen life sentence

By Rochelle E.B. Gilken

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Saturday, July 07, 2007

WEST PALM BEACH — — A 16-year-old in chains and a jail jumpsuit sat in juvenile court Friday, with his mom and dad by his side, to face charges that could put him in prison for the rest of his life.

Nathan Walker is the second teenager charged in the June 18 gang rape at gunpoint of a 35-year-old woman and assault of her 12-year-old son at their Dunbar Village home.

Walker and Avion Lawson, 14, will be held in jail cells with other teenagers for up to 21 days until the state attorney's office formally files paperwork charging them as adults. State Attorney Barry Krischer directed prosecutors to send them to adult court, an automatic decision anytime someone 14 or older is charged with a violent felony, spokesman Mike Edmondson said.

When that paperwork is filed, Walker and Lawson will be in the Palm Beach County Jail on charges that include armed sexual battery while wearing a mask, home invasion and aggravated battery.

If convicted, the maximum sentence for both is life in prison.

The victim told police that as many as 10 invaders forced their way into her home, and police expect to arrest more teenagers.

Walker and Lawson hung out together in Dunbar and played basketball on the public housing project's court.

The same cousins and friends of Lawson who denied his involvement to the media on Tuesday were in the courtroom Friday in the front row with Nathan Walker's family.

They said they were there to support Walker.

Walker's mother, Ruby Walker, cried at the sight of her son. She declined to talk about the case.

Walker's father, also named Nathan Walker, sat next to her. He later addressed reporters, soft-spoken and sad.

"I love my son," the father said. "I'm going to stick by him. I don't teach violence to my son, so it really puzzles me. Maybe he's just hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don't know."

He acknowledged that he hadn't spent as much time with his son as he should have after parting ways with the boy's mother. But he said his son is shy and timid, and they went to places like the Fun Depot arcade together.

"It's been awhile since I really spent a lot of time with him," the father said. In the meantime, his son has been getting into trouble with the law.

Walker is scheduled to be in juvenile court in two weeks for an earlier arrest. He is charged as a juvenile with trespassing on school property, resisting arrest without violence, criminal mischief and loitering at Roosevelt Middle School on two occasions in May.

According to the arrest report, Walker spent a lot of time with friends in Dunbar Village, though he lived on Brandywine Drive outside West Palm Beach.

The victims, who kept to themselves in the crime-ridden complex, have since moved out of Dunbar. Their apartment is boarded up. They are trying to recover.

The victims were active in their church, and several members of the large Haitian congregation have tried to reach out, said the woman's pastor.

"She's not doing well, but she's tough," the pastor said. "She believes in God, and she hopes that God will take care of her and her family.''

One thing worth noting from this article, it appears the victims were Haitian. I say appears because the article isn't very specific. They could simply live in that community, or be immigrants.

Either way, it sure hammers home the point of always be alert, especially in unfamiliar surroundings.
 
I told my wife about this story, which went down not too far from us, and we talked about some changes in our home. We no longer will open the door to anybody we don't know. If they need help, we'll call somebody from behind the closed door. It's a real shame, but my family is all there is...
 
A good dog is invaluable.

When I was 10 or 11, this guy knocked on the door; we were just about to leave. He wants a ride to the bus station.

Dog went nucking FUTS, this only happened maybe 3 times in the 15 years we had her. We sent the guy packing.

Next morning's paper:

Woman 2 blocks down went through the same scenario, except she gave him the ride. He raped and murdered her, he wound up on America's Most Wanted a few months later.

Scary stuff.
 
That's one of the most heinous crimes I've ever read about. I hope the perps get to spend the rest of their lives in state custody. :fire:

Someone tried a variation on this gambit on my wife and I several years ago, in Las Cruces, NM. At about 11pm, there was a pounding on our front door and a woman's voice screaming, "Help, help, let me in!"

We didn't open the door, and several seconds later a large male began trying to kick it in. I was waiting inside with a .38 and a cordless phone, talking to the police. The wannabe home invaders gave up before the steel door did, but it was a scary experience and a valuable lesson.

We are very cautious with strangers coming to our door. Most in recent years have turned out to be scam artists with magazine subscriptions, a fake tree trimming service, etc.

Stay safe,
Dirty Bob
 
It takes a lot to make me think the things I am thinking right now. 14 and life is the best we (USA) can do to make them regret what they did. I just hope they are put in an adults prison ASAP and I really hope the fellow inmates find out what they did. Sometimes even prisoners have their own justice systems (from what I've heard).

Trying to keep my THR hat on and not say what I was thinking while I was reading the OP and follow up. That's really hard for me to do with a situation like this. :fire::fire::fire:

As mentioned, don't open the door. If you feel you have to, I would probably Open carry (legal in my state) and I wouldn't be alone outside with strangers. My area is more rural and I can see all of my property from inside the house so I would definitely check the area to make sure a gang wasn't waiting behind some bushes. Forwarding this to my g/f to see if she feels like learning how to use a firearm yet.

I wish THR had a label system (or even a post icon) that meant "this story will make you completely outraged". That way at least I would know ahead of time that I was about to spend the rest of my day P.O'ed at the world. grrrrr
 
Sick

*** is wrong with people.

The victims did not suffer life-threatening injuries and have been released from the hospital, White said.

No, Just life altering injuries.

This makes me ashamed to be of the same species as these animals.

I am now ill and can't eat lunch.
 
Back when I was in high school (circa 1987) my friends and I were driving around in my folks' station wagon when my alternator crapped out. Needless to say, we came to as quick and safe a stop as we could on unlit twisty Connecticut back roads as possible. There were probably six of us (boys and girls) and as the driver, I had to go look for a house from which I could call AAA and my folks.

It was probably 11:30 pm and I ended up having to knock on a door to an unlit house - meaning that I had to awaken the occupants.

Thankfully, they let us in and allowed me to make my calls. The wife answered th door and "entertained" us while the husband stood farther back in the room with a shotgun. I certainly didn't feel like he was menacing us, but I certainly understood that things would have gone poorly for me had I been some kind of thug or miscreant. All in all, I thought that I'd want to have handled the situation the same way if I ever opted to open the door for strangers in the night.

Here in Florida, though... I hate to say it, but if I don't know you, the door isn't opening. I'll call 911 for you and you can shout the details to me so I can relay them.
 
"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

"I love my son," the father said. "I'm going to stick by him. I don't teach violence to my son, so it really puzzles me. Maybe he's just hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don't know."

Hate to break this to you, Dad, but you raised a monster. :cuss: He should be put down, and quickly, just as if he was a rabid dog.
 
My buddy broke down in the middle of nowhere in Colorado at 4am, in the middle of a snowstorm, and out of cellphone reception. He found a house with the light on, and very carefully with his hands visible and standing well back from the door asked for help.

A retired Marine with a .45 answered the door and helped him fix his truck.
 
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