U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Maryland won't honor other states and if they do it's news to me.
Get a Utah Non-Resident CCW Permit it's honored in 31 States!
- Thread starter Maximum1
- Start date
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Highland Ranger
Member
I thought Florida was the ticket?
I looked on packing.org and it doesn't seem to give you anything that Florida doesn't . . . . . .
And Florida permit accepts the NRA basic pistol course - no special attestation required.
Basically the same requirements, I think its a bit more expensive.
So why is Utah better?
I looked on packing.org and it doesn't seem to give you anything that Florida doesn't . . . . . .
And Florida permit accepts the NRA basic pistol course - no special attestation required.
Basically the same requirements, I think its a bit more expensive.
So why is Utah better?
Titanvk56
Member
Good info!
Wyoming will accept a hunter's safety card for the course requirement.
Wyoming will accept a hunter's safety card for the course requirement.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Sorry for you. I know your situation, and why you have to be there. There are reasons why I fled Maryland. There are plenty of folks who can use it, so let's not look at its benefit through the narrow window of merely our own benefit. In fact, you can benefit from it when you travel, too. Virginia comes to mind.
FL Concealed Weapon Permit
(Out-of-State) New App - $117 Renewal - $107
(Out-of-State Renewal Fee Includes $42 Fingerprint Fee)
Utah Permit
New App - $59
Renewal - $10, no fingerprints needed again
Just a quick glance . . . I recall another reason why Utah benefitted me more when I got it 3-4 yrs ago . . . thought it might be another state or two Fl didn't get me at the time, but that may have changed since.
mljdeckard
Member
Yeah, don't worry about BCI in Utah being overwhelmed. We'll survive, and they are actually turning a good profit.
mons meg
Member
For my fellow Oklahomans: according to the reciprocity map, doesn't look like you gain anything except Minnesota by acquiring a Utah permit if you already have an OK permit.
Nothing against MN, just I don't have a reason to go up there.
Nothing against MN, just I don't have a reason to go up there.
learn2shoot
Member
Deleware
For those in VA it is great because it gives you DE, which the VA is lacking. If you want a Utah permit there are instructors all over the place. (including myself)
http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/insoutstate.pdf
For those in VA it is great because it gives you DE, which the VA is lacking. If you want a Utah permit there are instructors all over the place. (including myself)
http://www.bci.utah.gov/CFP/insoutstate.pdf
Last edited:
cngerms
member
From the Salt Lake Tribune
Here's a copy of a Salt Lake Tribune article I sent to my grassroots organization, VCDL, a while back and had posted in their newsletter. Sorry, the actual article is no longer available on the Tribune's servers, but pay close attention to the highlighted paragraph. The program is costing more than it generates! This was the very reason I quickly applied for my non-res Utah permit. I could just imagine some lib legislator, armed with the financial facts, using such information to kill the program. Call it paranoia, if you will, but I now have my permit. BTW, it took 76 days and I just received it in November.
Popularity of Utah gun permits puts hole in budget
Agency calls trend a burden on taxpayers, safety controls
By Glen Warchol
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune
In the 11 years since its passage, Utah's concealed-weapon law has
become the closest thing to a national concealed-carry permit, with
six of every 10 permits this year going to out-of-state residents.
A tidal wave of nonresident applicants since January has state
Bureau of Criminal Identification officials overwhelmed and concerned
that Utah taxpayers are subsidizing nonresidents' gun permits. Worse,
they say the huge numbers of out-of-state applicants are robbing
resources from other important public safety duties - particularly
doing criminal background checks on school employees.
"Utah's is the de facto national concealed-carry permit," says Ed
McConkie, chief of BCI, which administers the state's
concealed-weapons licensing. Of more than 62,000 permits issued from
1995 to 2005, 19,000 have gone to nonresidents.
Applying for Utah's permit requires a gun-safety class,
fingerprinting, a criminal background check and $59. An applicant
does not have to be a Utah resident - or even have set foot in the
state - to get a concealed-gun permit. Utah has licensed instructors
in 42 other states and Canada to remotely train applicants for its
permit.
Out-of-state applicants, for the most part, are not seeking to
carry concealed weapons in Utah. Instead, they want to carry in the
more than 30 states that recognize Utah's permit. Utah has the
highest level of acceptance in the nation. Add that to the permit's
five-year duration, low fee, ease of renewal and modest level of
training, and it's no wonder gun rights activists call Utah's "the
most valuable permit in the nation."
"With a Utah permit, a nonresident can carry in many other states
because those states look at Utah's permit system and say, 'It's a
good program. We will accept that,' " says Clark Aposhian, a gun
rights lobbyist and chairman of the Utah Concealed Weapon Review
Board.
Apparently, word of Utah's bargain concealed-gun permit has
spread. The number of out-of-state permits has been increasing
rapidly every year - but BCI has not seen anything like this year's
onslaught.
The bureau projects the number of concealed weapon applicants will
hit 16,138 by the end of 2006, breaking 2005's record of 10,767. But
even more shocking to the bureau, fully 58 percent of 2006 applicants
do not live in Utah.
Many nonresident applicants apply for Utah permits because their
own state's regulations are more stringent or the fees are higher.
Then, Utah's reciprocity allows them to carry a concealed handgun on
their own turf, says McConkie. "It's better to have a Utah
concealed-carry permit in Florida than a Florida permit."
Art Gordon, a gun dealer in St. Louis who has a Utah training
licence, says half the people he trains for concealed-carry permits
are applying to faraway Utah. Charging $80 each, Gordon has prepared
about 200 applicants for Utah's permit. Though Utah only requires
"familiarity" with guns - it's possible to get a Utah permit without
firing a weapon - Gordon requires his students to prove handgun
competence on a shooting range.
"Missouri doesn't have reciprocity with as many states as Utah;
that's the primary reason its permit is so popular," Gordon says. "My
students come from Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma and Ohio to get Utah
permits."
Curtis Oda, R-Clearfield, one of the Legislature's leading
gun-rights advocates, is not concerned by the growing number of Utah
permits going to nonresidents who are trained out of state.
"As long as they are teaching the proper things, the more people
who have concealed weapons, the better," Oda says. "Utah's permit is
the most valuable in the country. We are the standard now and more
and more states want to have reciprocity with us."
Steve Gunn, a Salt Lake lawyer who is on the board of the Gun
Violence Prevention Center of Utah, says he is not surprised about
the popularity of Utah's permit considering how easy it is to get one.
"It's a shame that we make these permits available so easily and
that we don't have more stringent requirements to get them," Gunn
says. "The ease with which one can obtain a permit is not in the best
interest of the public."
Though BCI will collect more than $500,000 in fees this year, the
program will cost $610,000 to administer, according to bureau
figures. Yet, the Legislature only appropriates $88,000 to run the
program. "That pays for about one employee," says McConkie.
"The money [from fees] disappears into that big blue ocean of the
state budget," says the Department of Public Safety's Col. Claron
Brenchley, who oversees the concealed-carry program. The department
subsidizes the program through other parts of its budget.
At the same time, the Legislature requires BCI to process the
applications within 60 days. This month, for the first time, the six
BCI workers who handle the concealed-carry background checks and
paperwork have fallen behind. "We are technically in violation of the
statute," says Brenchley.
McConkie emphasizes the majority of the backlog of 2,600
applications are from nonresidents. "Out-of-state applicants are
driving this dramatic increase in applications. It is skyrocketing."
To keep up, Brenchley says the bureau has been tapping resources
in other BCI programs, including employees and computers that should
be screening teachers and other workers in sensitive public jobs.
"This has become a public safety issue," Brenchley says of the
lagging educator checks. "What is more important, a concealed-carry
permit or checking the background of a teacher?"
Oda, Aposhian and others in the gun lobby say the solution is to
funnel the state's share of the permit fees directly to BCI to cover
the costs of the program. By their math, the state of Utah is making
a profit on issuing the permits.
"There is no way BCI can continue to do this," Aposhian says.
"They flat-out don't have the manpower to stay in compliance."
Aposhian, chairman of Utah Shooting Sports Council, the local
National Rifle Association affiliate, says he would be willing to
raise out-of-state permit fees - if the money went to BCI. "I don't
want Utahns spending a dime to subsidize out-of-state permits."
But Oda maintains the solution is for the Legislature to mandate
all concealed-weapon fees to flow directly to BCI.
"The numbers are there. They have plenty of money to administer
the concealed-weapon regulation," he says. "Yet they are only
allocated back $88,000, and have to rob Peter to pay Paul to run the
program."
McConkie fears any solution that involves increasing the price of
permits or limiting issue to nonresidents could trigger a political
battle between national gun-rights and gun-control groups. "If Utah
is seen as the last bastion of gun permits - it may become a national
rallying point."
Here's a copy of a Salt Lake Tribune article I sent to my grassroots organization, VCDL, a while back and had posted in their newsletter. Sorry, the actual article is no longer available on the Tribune's servers, but pay close attention to the highlighted paragraph. The program is costing more than it generates! This was the very reason I quickly applied for my non-res Utah permit. I could just imagine some lib legislator, armed with the financial facts, using such information to kill the program. Call it paranoia, if you will, but I now have my permit. BTW, it took 76 days and I just received it in November.
Popularity of Utah gun permits puts hole in budget
Agency calls trend a burden on taxpayers, safety controls
By Glen Warchol
The Salt Lake Tribune
Salt Lake Tribune
In the 11 years since its passage, Utah's concealed-weapon law has
become the closest thing to a national concealed-carry permit, with
six of every 10 permits this year going to out-of-state residents.
A tidal wave of nonresident applicants since January has state
Bureau of Criminal Identification officials overwhelmed and concerned
that Utah taxpayers are subsidizing nonresidents' gun permits. Worse,
they say the huge numbers of out-of-state applicants are robbing
resources from other important public safety duties - particularly
doing criminal background checks on school employees.
"Utah's is the de facto national concealed-carry permit," says Ed
McConkie, chief of BCI, which administers the state's
concealed-weapons licensing. Of more than 62,000 permits issued from
1995 to 2005, 19,000 have gone to nonresidents.
Applying for Utah's permit requires a gun-safety class,
fingerprinting, a criminal background check and $59. An applicant
does not have to be a Utah resident - or even have set foot in the
state - to get a concealed-gun permit. Utah has licensed instructors
in 42 other states and Canada to remotely train applicants for its
permit.
Out-of-state applicants, for the most part, are not seeking to
carry concealed weapons in Utah. Instead, they want to carry in the
more than 30 states that recognize Utah's permit. Utah has the
highest level of acceptance in the nation. Add that to the permit's
five-year duration, low fee, ease of renewal and modest level of
training, and it's no wonder gun rights activists call Utah's "the
most valuable permit in the nation."
"With a Utah permit, a nonresident can carry in many other states
because those states look at Utah's permit system and say, 'It's a
good program. We will accept that,' " says Clark Aposhian, a gun
rights lobbyist and chairman of the Utah Concealed Weapon Review
Board.
Apparently, word of Utah's bargain concealed-gun permit has
spread. The number of out-of-state permits has been increasing
rapidly every year - but BCI has not seen anything like this year's
onslaught.
The bureau projects the number of concealed weapon applicants will
hit 16,138 by the end of 2006, breaking 2005's record of 10,767. But
even more shocking to the bureau, fully 58 percent of 2006 applicants
do not live in Utah.
Many nonresident applicants apply for Utah permits because their
own state's regulations are more stringent or the fees are higher.
Then, Utah's reciprocity allows them to carry a concealed handgun on
their own turf, says McConkie. "It's better to have a Utah
concealed-carry permit in Florida than a Florida permit."
Art Gordon, a gun dealer in St. Louis who has a Utah training
licence, says half the people he trains for concealed-carry permits
are applying to faraway Utah. Charging $80 each, Gordon has prepared
about 200 applicants for Utah's permit. Though Utah only requires
"familiarity" with guns - it's possible to get a Utah permit without
firing a weapon - Gordon requires his students to prove handgun
competence on a shooting range.
"Missouri doesn't have reciprocity with as many states as Utah;
that's the primary reason its permit is so popular," Gordon says. "My
students come from Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma and Ohio to get Utah
permits."
Curtis Oda, R-Clearfield, one of the Legislature's leading
gun-rights advocates, is not concerned by the growing number of Utah
permits going to nonresidents who are trained out of state.
"As long as they are teaching the proper things, the more people
who have concealed weapons, the better," Oda says. "Utah's permit is
the most valuable in the country. We are the standard now and more
and more states want to have reciprocity with us."
Steve Gunn, a Salt Lake lawyer who is on the board of the Gun
Violence Prevention Center of Utah, says he is not surprised about
the popularity of Utah's permit considering how easy it is to get one.
"It's a shame that we make these permits available so easily and
that we don't have more stringent requirements to get them," Gunn
says. "The ease with which one can obtain a permit is not in the best
interest of the public."
Though BCI will collect more than $500,000 in fees this year, the
program will cost $610,000 to administer, according to bureau
figures. Yet, the Legislature only appropriates $88,000 to run the
program. "That pays for about one employee," says McConkie.
"The money [from fees] disappears into that big blue ocean of the
state budget," says the Department of Public Safety's Col. Claron
Brenchley, who oversees the concealed-carry program. The department
subsidizes the program through other parts of its budget.
At the same time, the Legislature requires BCI to process the
applications within 60 days. This month, for the first time, the six
BCI workers who handle the concealed-carry background checks and
paperwork have fallen behind. "We are technically in violation of the
statute," says Brenchley.
McConkie emphasizes the majority of the backlog of 2,600
applications are from nonresidents. "Out-of-state applicants are
driving this dramatic increase in applications. It is skyrocketing."
To keep up, Brenchley says the bureau has been tapping resources
in other BCI programs, including employees and computers that should
be screening teachers and other workers in sensitive public jobs.
"This has become a public safety issue," Brenchley says of the
lagging educator checks. "What is more important, a concealed-carry
permit or checking the background of a teacher?"
Oda, Aposhian and others in the gun lobby say the solution is to
funnel the state's share of the permit fees directly to BCI to cover
the costs of the program. By their math, the state of Utah is making
a profit on issuing the permits.
"There is no way BCI can continue to do this," Aposhian says.
"They flat-out don't have the manpower to stay in compliance."
Aposhian, chairman of Utah Shooting Sports Council, the local
National Rifle Association affiliate, says he would be willing to
raise out-of-state permit fees - if the money went to BCI. "I don't
want Utahns spending a dime to subsidize out-of-state permits."
But Oda maintains the solution is for the Legislature to mandate
all concealed-weapon fees to flow directly to BCI.
"The numbers are there. They have plenty of money to administer
the concealed-weapon regulation," he says. "Yet they are only
allocated back $88,000, and have to rob Peter to pay Paul to run the
program."
McConkie fears any solution that involves increasing the price of
permits or limiting issue to nonresidents could trigger a political
battle between national gun-rights and gun-control groups. "If Utah
is seen as the last bastion of gun permits - it may become a national
rallying point."
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2006
- Messages
- 7,822
Maximum1 said:
mljdeckard said:
Can either of you provide a cite for this information? How about a link to the Utah web site?
From the Trib article above: "Though BCI will collect more than $500,000 in fees this year, the program will cost $610,000 to administer."
Even if you take the legislature's subsidy of $88K, they are still running about $22K in the hole.
The cited article is from July, however BCI has a fact sheet up there from September saying that they are still bringing in less than it costs to run:
http://bci.utah.gov/CCW_Fact_Sheet.pdf
From that link:
"the total costs of running the CFP program consistently exceed the revenue generated by the applications. This also includes the $10 generated from application renewals."
"even if BCI received all of the proceeds from the program, and at the current permit fee structure, it would still not cover the entire program’s costs."
Did they publish something new in the last three months to show they are generating a profit?
SJG26
member
Ahhhh......the Anti-setup begins
"To keep up, Brenchley says the bureau has been tapping resources
in other BCI programs, including employees and computers that should
be screening teachers and other workers in sensitive public jobs.
"This has become a public safety issue," Brenchley says of the
lagging educator checks. "What is more important, a concealed-carry
permit or checking the background of a teacher?""
How long before some Anti-Politico pushes the "Public Safety" button as a means to limit/suspend permits for non-Utah residents??
On a lighter note----Utah ALLOWS teachers to be armed (IIRC) - that'll put a knot in Brenchley's shorts...................
"To keep up, Brenchley says the bureau has been tapping resources
in other BCI programs, including employees and computers that should
be screening teachers and other workers in sensitive public jobs.
"This has become a public safety issue," Brenchley says of the
lagging educator checks. "What is more important, a concealed-carry
permit or checking the background of a teacher?""
How long before some Anti-Politico pushes the "Public Safety" button as a means to limit/suspend permits for non-Utah residents??
On a lighter note----Utah ALLOWS teachers to be armed (IIRC) - that'll put a knot in Brenchley's shorts...................
xd9fan
Member
too bad they want fingerprints....I dont trust them with this kind of info. Plus being treated like I'm a criminal......is demeaning as a law-abidding citizen.
It is what it is. You can either deal with it and get the permit, or not. I'm not aware of any state's that don't require fingerprinting for CCW.
As for anti-legislators in Utah, our CCW isn't going anywhere. Politcally the options I've heard bandied around the most are allowing BCI to keep all of the funds, instead of it going back to the general fund, and to raise the rate for out of state applicants.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,709
New Hampshire's non-resident permit--no picture, no prints, no classroom, no shooting. Twenty dollars for four (five?) years.
Only caveat is that you must have a permit in your home state and send a photocopy to New Hampshire--seems that they are using your state's permit as prima facie evidence that you have passed the FBI background check.
Only caveat is that you must have a permit in your home state and send a photocopy to New Hampshire--seems that they are using your state's permit as prima facie evidence that you have passed the FBI background check.
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