getting a silencer

[Zach S]

I guess you'd Form 1 it, like you would for an SBR.

Now that I think about it, I think there's a thread in the M16 forum at arfcom where someone is doing that.

Edit: Every time I answer a question in this thread, someone answers it better while I'm typing my reply. I give up.

444, are you using the M169 upper? I came across it while googling over the weekend, I was actually looking for the LRM website, which has exceeded bandwidth...

 

[Ukraine Train]

From howstuffworks: Several alert readers have written to point out that a bullet that travels at supersonic speeds cannot be silenced because the bullet creates its own little sonic boom as it travels. Many high-powered loads travel at supersonic speeds. The silencer can remove the "uncorking" sound, but not the sound of the bullet's flight.

Is this true? How much of a sound reduction can be expected from say a .308, quiet enough that you can shoot without ear muffs?

 

[444]

The reason that most people use the term suppressor is because the device is far from a silencer. Most people get their idea of what a suppressor sounds like from watching a movie. Real suppressors are not silent.

A suppressor on an AR15 sounds about like a .22 rifle. I have never personally fired a .308 that was suppressed but I have been told by a suppressor manufacturer that to most people's ears it is quieter than a .223 suppressor.

Yes, you can go without hearing protection. BUT, we are talking about good, state of the art suppressors and not something that was put together in someone's basement.

"444, are you using the M169 upper? "
No.
I am not even close to getting it. I bought it off the equipment exchange on AR15.com and the tax stamp process has only just begun. I figure it will be several more months before I ever actually see it. Maybe six ?

Most of these questions have been answered on that other forum I posted a link to earlier. You will even see a thread on there that I started asking if you can build your own suppressor on a form 1. Another good source of information on specific suppressor is the M16/Full Auto section of AR15.com.

 

[Ukraine Train]

Well, if I were to make one it would be far from cobbled together in my basement. I have access to a full machine shop with a CNC lathe and mill. A little research on baffling and I could have a good base to work from. Just seems like a waste to spend $300+ on a tin can, it'd be fun to make it yourself too.

 

[444]

I think you would have fun and would probably come up with something that would work fairly well.

The comment about the basement was mainly to point out that these $300 tin cans have about 100 years of research behind them and were made by people who were working on the project full time with access to state of the art equipment. Like anything else, the price of the product doesn't really pay just for the metal parts that make up the product.

 

[dakotasin]

ok, last question, i promise, until i have more questions!

how do i get the can...? do i pay for the can and let it sit while papers clear, or do i clear the papers, then find a can and take it home? just looking for the sequence of events that have to occur...

 

[boofus]

You buy the suppressor first. If it is out of state you have to find a local C3 dealer to receive the item. When your dealer gets the item you go visit him and he will help you fill out two Form 4s. They will need the serial number off the suppressor and the manufacturer's information. Plus your dealer's FFL and Special Occupational Taxpayer info.

You fill all that out in duplicate, get photos, finger prints, sheriff's signature and then write out a $200 check to BATF. Send it off and wait. Pray that they don't lose the forms or screw up in some other way.

After a couple months to 1+ years your dealer might receive one of the Form 4s back in the mail. When he gets it you can go and pick up the new toy.

 

[444]

#1) You buy and pay for the suppressor. The reason you buy it and let it sit at your dealer's for months is because they Form 4 requires the serial number, dimensions etc of the suppressor you are buying. Obviously, if you dont' have the suppressor, you don't have these details. One important note here: you don't have to pay retail for a suppressor. Check out on-line boards such as AR15.com Equipment Exchange:NFA Firearms&Parts. You will see some deeply discounted suppressors. The first two suppressors I bought, I walked into my dealer's store and had him call the manufacturer and order them. As a result, I paid full retail and waited just about forever to get them. Buying on-line means paying far less, and maybe more importantly: the guy actually has the suppressor in stock. No waiting for the manufacturer to make it. That dealer has to transfer it to your dealer on a form 3. This takes time: a month or more. In this case, your local dealer is making money on the transfer and not on the suppressor. A fair price to pay is somewhere between $50 and $100 for the transfer. You make the deal with the out of state dealer, then have your dealer send him a copy of his FFL and his SOT (I write up the envelope, go to the dealer and ask him for a copy to send). Of course this is all a non-issue if you happen to have a local dealer who actually stocks suppressors and sells below retail.
As an example, I bought that LRM M-169 from Henry at TitleII Firearms in South Carolina. The price he gave me on it was about three hundred less than the retail price on LRM's website. I also bought my AAC M4-2000 suppressor from the same guy. It also was hundreds less than the retail price on AAC's website.
When your dealer gets the suppressor in, you can now do your Form 4. The Form 4 is very simple: it is shorter than a regular 4473 (yellow form). You can fill out the forms as an Adobe Acrobat document on www.titleII.com then print out a nice, neat, professional form 4 (you need two copies). Next you need to get a sign-off from your local chief law enforcement officer. Here, that is the sheriff. On the way to his office, stop at somewhere like Sav-On drug and get passport photos taken. Glue two of the passport photos to the back of the form 4 in the spot marked for that purpose. At the sheriff's office you need two sets of fingerprints and his signature. Here where I live, you just drop the paperwork off and they call you to pick it up. When you get the paperwork back, you send it all in, along with a check for $200.
And you wait. And wait. And wait, AND WAIT.

Eventually, you will get back, one of the exact forms you sent to them only it will now have a $200 tax stamp on the upper right hand corner. It looks just like a big postage stamp and is marked for $200. ATF also filled out there little section saying this was all approved. You can now take home your suppressor/machine gun/make your SBR or whatever.

 

[chopinbloc]

i've been kickin' around the idea of getting a can for a while now and what i'd like to know is wether a 5.56mm supressor like the aac m-4 2000 would work for .22 lr also. i know there is a slight dimensional difference, but .22 lr is so low powered anyway i thought it might still reduce the sound quite a bit. if this is the case, then i could suppress two ar's, two .22's and whatever other .22 rifle i purchase in the future for one low price. but wait, there's more, what about .22-250, .22mag, .22hornet or other .22 cal chamberings, maybe even .17. if the bullet flies straight trhough the suppressor, then it might even eat up some of the negligable amount of gasses coming from that round.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

so every factory MP5SD will be on two forms. hope this helps.

My MP5SD came on two stamps. It's just that one was for the "machinegun" and the other was "SBR/Suppressor" instead of just suppressor. Kind of odd.

 

[Randy in Arizona]

chopinbloc,

The size and internals of a suppressor are tailored to the cartridge, barrel length, rate of fire and so on.

A suppressor designed for the M16 carbine would be much stronger and heavier than needed for a long barreled bolt action 22 rimfire rifle.

The rimfire suppressor can use aluminum baffles, aluminum screen and fiberglass pipe insulation wrap to good advantage. Put the same suppressor on a 22-250 and the internals are likely to go downrange with the first shot.
Aluminum baffles that would serve well in a suppressor for a bolt action .223 will deform and fail in a M16 during a 30 round mag dump, don't even think about dumping a Beta mag.

An M16 suppressor will usually not be as quiet as a rimfire suppressor when used on a 22 rimfire. It is designed to use the massive volumes of gas to create turbulence that slows the gasses exit from the suppressor. The rimfire suppressor works more by cooling and slowing the exiting gasses.

Keep asking questions, we will keep answering.