Glock 23 KaBoom w/Wolf ammo

[model 649]

Last Wednesday night at our regular pin match, a LEO's G23 chamber let go. I did not see it happen (got there a bit later). I did see the gun though. Good Lord!! It wasn't the usual reported failure due to case head support. The whole chamber disintegrated! The slide was bent upward and outward, the guide rod blew out the front, the frame bent downward, the mag was blown out in such a way that the remaining rounds are trapped inside, and the lady was burned across her hand and was taken to the hospital by her partner post haste. We did find the top of the chamber (the hood section) as a piece. The rest of the chamber was in very small pieces. No one else on the line was injured, thankfully. She was shooting Wolf .40 S&W ammo (I don't know the lot #, though). I've read about this stuff, but never seen it in person. Very scary. Am I alone thinking that a 9mm sized gun is on the edge of being able to contain this high-pressure round? I realize 9mm is also high-pressure, but there is more "meat" around it in my G17 chamber. Dunno as I'm not a gun designer, just conjecture on my part. Could be that, with so many .40's out there, proportionately more failures are "normal" (statistically speaking). Mostly I've heard that factory-ammo kabooms were associated with Federal ammo. This is the first I've heard of one happening with Wolf. Quite possible the ammo had little to do with it as it may have been a marginal chamber to begin with (too brittle?). I'll post back if I hear any more info.

Be careful out there,
Josh

 

[Bartronnic Plague]

Been there brother

The exact same thing happened to me with 7.62x39mm Saiga AK. Check out my post in rifle country. Unreal, isn't it?

 

[whm1974]

I think I would stay away from Wolf then. At least certain calibers anyway.

-Bill

 

[Matthew748]

Maybe they are passing around the vodka bottle a little to much at the Tula cartridge works. I have always used Wolf ammo for plinking, but if this keeps up I will have to find another brand. Then again, I have been looking for an excuse to add a progressive press to the bench in my loading room. This could be it.

 

[sarhog]

I think I would stay away from Wolf then. At least certain calibers anyway.

I think I would stay away from Glock. They may have a bad batch of guns out there.






Relax.....I'm joking.

 

[Ala Dan]

The G-23 KA-Boom might be contributed to WOLFF Ammo using a lacquer
coating on their STEEL cases. Being that the steel cases do not give, the
lacquer coating is stripped off when a round is fired; thus depositing the
lacquer coated film in the lands and grooves of the firearm, and causing
the firearm to KA-Boom. I would NEVER recommend the use of WOLFF
ammo in any firearm for the reason stated above.

 

[Zach S]

IIRC Wolf doesnt use lacquer anymore, they use some kind of polymer coating that's supposed to be easier to clean. There is probably some of the lacquer-coated stuff still floating around though. I have used the lacquered rounds with no problems, but its too dirty for me. I hate cleaning my guns, and therefore rarely do it.

I havent tried the new stuff. Cant say that I plan to either.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'm not defending Wolf (as I don't like the stuff), but I would expect lacquer (old stock) to burn off in the process of combustion, and not build up deposit in the barrel. The chamber would be different, but that ought NOT cause the kind of problem described.

Glocks with factory barrels don't have lands and grooves, anyway -- but lead can sure build up in the polygonal barrel.

(I know guys who reload, one a professional shooter, and they successfullly use lead in Glocks; the claim sizing the bullet to the barrel properly makes leading a non-issue. A couple others have bought land/groove after-market barrels.)

 

[Ala Dan]

When I experimented with Glock's, I shot a lot of lead thru a G-17. Its
true, that if the bullet is sized correctly leading is not a major problem.

Walt

I stand corrected on the lands and goove issue concerning Glock's. You
are correct my friend. BTW, I think some of the old (lacquer coated) stuff
that WOLFF produced has found its way into our ammo inventory. I had
a customer purchase a band NIB H&K USP Expert from me on Thursday,
and he picked up a couple boxes of WOLFF .45 ACP to run thru that gun.
After a brief discussion, I was able to talk him out of that idea and into a
couple boxes of MagTech .45's.

 

[Elmer]

Why is it that the Glock KaBooms always look like a hand grenade went off in them?

 

[R.H. Lee]

You might be better served with an all steel pistol. They don't seem to KB nearly as often as Glocks.

 

[cslinger]

I am not a Glock fan but all guns KB. SIGs have done it, Rugers, Smiths, and so on. It happens. I think it is a testimate that when a gun does go typically only minor injuries if any are sustained by the shooter.

I realize that certain things like cheap ammo and unsupported chambers can exacerbate the situation but the fact is you shoot enough and realize the kind of physical pressures that a firearm has to deal with time and time again and you realize it could happen to any one of us.

Chris

 

[model 649]

I talked to the owner of the range today(Mike at Top Gun) to find out if the gun was still there. I planned to stop by and take some pix of it for the forum. He already shipped it out but one of the RO's took some pix beforehand. I will get them this week (they aren't on his computer yet) in my e-mail. He told me he has seen many messed up guns by Wolf ammo, just lately an new AK that they spent 1.5 hours on. He told me the guy gave him back the unopened ammo he still had. Seems the slow learner found a stray round of the Wolf stuff in his range bag on a subsequent outing, chambered it, and, you guessed it!!! Another 1.5 hour job on it. I wonder what the barrel looks like? The removal of TWO stuck cases had to take some kind of toll, not to mention the pressure the chamber held up to. Mike also informed me that the lady who fired the fateful round is doing fine.
Josh

 

[Longbow]

My friend bought 1k rounds of .45 ACP Wolff ammo long ago. I remember him saying he got at least 15 rounds of squibs (no powder). Good thing he only does slow fire and caught them all and didn't blow-up his gun.
My experience with them is with 9mm and 7.62x39 only. No problems here. My Glock 17 and AK clone loves 'em.

 

[lunaslide]

A friend was shooting Wolf .45 in a USP and .40 in a Glock 23. In both he had case splits right down the side of the cartridge that left small marks on the inside of the chamber and caused a failure to eject. Another friend had the rim of a Wolf .223 cartridge pulled off on extraction in an AR and a case split similar to the previous situation. Add these to a litany of smaller issues with that brand and I've come to the conclusion that none of my firearms deserve to be fed that ammo.

 

[lunaslide]

I am not a Glock fan but all guns KB. SIGs have done it...

I am not being facetious or snarky, and I am asking only because I would really like to know. Please show me an instance of a SiG going KB. I have never seen it happen and cannot find any reference to someone ever having it happen to them. I am curious about what circumstances it happened under and how frequent an occurance it has been.

EDIT: I found one run of European P229s that had slide problems due to a combination of material and process problems here. Find more if you can!

 

[seed]

Personally, I feel much more at ease shooting my Glock 23 knowing it has a fully supported chamber Bar-Sto barrel in it. I wish I could say the same thing about my Glock 22 which, due to budget constraints still has the factory barrel. I know the G22 will probably never Kaboom...however the added sense of security I get with the Bar-Sto gives me peace of mind when shooting the 23.

 

[BluesBear]

WOW.

I just finished my TWELVETH case of Wolf .45acp ammo.
Yeppers 6000 rounds with ZERO problems.

No split cases.
No bulged* cases.
No sticky lacquer coated chambers.
No sticky polymer coated chambers.
No excess powder fouling.
No squib loads.
No missing primers.
No extractor damage.
No ejector damage.
No magazine feed lip damage.

Will someone PLEASE tell me what am I doing wrong?






Now, I once owned a Colt Commander that didn't like Wolf. So I thought Wolf was junk. Turns out I was mistaken.
I discovered that the previous owner had installed oversize pins just about everywhere possible. All were drilled crooked.
As it wore on nothing would function properly. I just happened to be half way through a case of Wolf when it started happening.


Since then I have not found a properly working 1911 pattern pistol that didn't like it.
I even know of a fellow THR member who has a Colt 1991 Compact that eats it like a fat kid with an extra Easter basket.

Last month I even put 100 rounds through a very used Glock at the range.
*(The Wolf ammo fired in the Glock "expanded" just like the brass cased ammo did.)
And I still have all fingers present and accounted for. Even after dining at Wendy's.

And from all of the 9mm & .40 cal Wolf cases that get stuck in my boot treads at the range I get the impression that someone else is also shooting a lot of it.

 

[Elmer]

I've read these threads on bad ammo about Winchester, Federal, CCI etc. Seems like most of them involve Glocks.

Coincedenza??

 

[Gary G23]

Between this report and Bartronnic Plaque's Saiga AK blowing up I'm glad I quit using Wolf ammo. If you read the Saiga story Wolf paid for the damaged gun and a new case of ammo. If Wolf was willing to buy Bartronnic Plaque a new gun so easily they must know their ammo has issues.

 

[Jamie C.]

You might be better served with an all steel pistol. They don't seem to KB nearly as often as Glocks.

I'm not trying to defend Glock here, since I do think they have a few issues with how their chambers are cut or set up, as well as some possible flaws in either metallurgy or heat treatment, but I don't really see how having a polymer frame can make much difference in the gun going kB!..... especially since it's the STEEL parts that are "giving up the ghost".




J.C.

 

[Elmer]

You are correct. It doesn't appear the polymer frame has anything to do with it.

 

[Elmer]

If Wolf was willing to buy Bartronnic Plaque a new gun so easily they must know their ammo has issues.

For their cost in replacing that rifle, it's much cheaper to just take care of it, regardless of who's at fault. Most of the gun companies do the same thing. Glock has replaced many guns even though they blamed it on the ammo.

 

[Onmilo]

Must not have been a newer Glock and it must not have been newer Wolf ammunition,,,,,,,
Just the same, why ANYBODY would use inexpensive ammunition in an expensive handgun is beyond my scope of comprehension.

A person pays hard earned money for a decent gun and then shoots the cheapest turd ammo in the damned thing,,,,,,,,,,

 

[The Drew]

I don't know what you consider an expensive handgun but I don't consider a $500 gun expensive... now it certainly isn't cheap, but is generally considered a quality weapon.

But I have to wonder why all these stories of KB's are usually with glocks... Is it the rifling??? if that is the case you would think Glock would consider putting traditional barrels in instead of the polygonal ones...

I understand that any gun can KB usually with bad reloads... or a bad factory load... But why so many glocks? I can't believe that THAT many people are shooting lead, when it is well publicized that it is something that you shouldn't do...