Glock 23 KaBoom w/Wolf ammo

[Dean Speir]

Aw, jeez…

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So you are an expert in the field of pistols blowing up.

No, Rinspeed… I didn't say that, and if you think I did then your reading comprehension skills are on a par with some others here.

I've never positioned myself as an "expert" on anything, just what Dan Shea at Small Arms Review calls an "RKI," or "reasonably knowledgeable individual." Why? Because I've put the work in, is all.

Ironically, the two entities who do in fact consider me an "expert" are BATFE by dint of a ruling which, while it didn't name me specifically, covers what I do and how I do it, #1, and #2, the U.S. District Court, Eastern District, in Uniondale, Long Island in the matter of "McNaughton, et al v. Glock, Inc., et al.," Judge Joanna Seybert presiding… and I have Glock's general counsel Paul Jannuzzo and their outside attorney John Renzulli to thank for that… they were the ones who stipulated my bona fides for the record.

And all it actually means is that my court appearance per diem appreciated considerably, so I don't wave it around.

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[Bobby Lee]

"That's your theory on why some Glocks catastrophically come apart?

You may be right. I don't have the answer."

Well I do know for a fact that some Glock .40's do swell the brass at 6 o'clock and from my experience most do not.

Common sense and logic should tell us that if the chamber on SOME Glocks does not have enough support at 6'oclock that it allows the brass to swell to the degree that it is eaisly seen then common sense and logic tells me that if one got hold of some brass that was weak in that area from either a factory defect or from repeated reloadings then it is very possible for the case to completly blow out and the pistol could k-boom.

I seen one .40 Glock that swelled the brass so badly it could be eaisly seen from a distance while lying on the ground mixed with other brass.

This Glock was sure to blow itself to hell some day. It's owner sent it back to Glock along with some fired brass and they shipped the gun back to him with a new barrel. It no longer swells the brass.

 

[GunnyBob]

To those who've followed Glockcentricities over the years, Dean is indeed a well known, and love him or hate him, knowledgeable man. Pick a site catering to Glockophiles, or Glockophiliacs as the case might very well be, and Dean's name is taken in vain more often than one's respective deity after one has hammered thumb instead of nail. Usually misspelled, and at first I thought it to be an attempt at humor or to avoid litigation until I realized that most folks simply cannot spell Spee, Spir, Spae, his last name, any better than me.

Now, I own and like the Glock I have, don't agree with all Dean has ever said even though he is far, far older than I, but pilling on does get my dander up. To each their own opinion, indeed, but there does come a time to at least THINK about what the other person is saying rather than kneejerking him in the whoopsidaisy. See. If I can be civil and open-minded, ANYONE can.

All the best

gunny

 

[Bobby Lee]

Mr Speir is possibly the most hated "formerly famous gunwriter" that has ever been discussed on Glock Talk.

Most of those that really hate him have never really closely read his stuff.

 

[Rinspeed]

Mr Speir is possibly the most hated "formerly famous gunwriter" that has ever been discussed on Glock Talk. Most of those that really hate him have never really closely read his stuff.

Well I can't say I'm overwhelmed with his charm myself.

 

[Elmer]

A common trait amongst experts, is arrogance. As anyone who's spent any time with Jeff Cooper can attest to. Not that I'm comparing Speir to Cooper.

Probably comes from having to defend your researched opinions to those who have no facts, only feelings.

 

[Old Fuff]

Col. Cooper and I have always gotten along fine ..., and I enjoy his company sometimes.

That of course implies something about me I suppose ...

 

[Elmer]

That of course implies something about me I suppose ...

LOL

My friends and I have come to the conclusion, that if you can't figure out who the crotchety old fart is in the room....

It's you...

 

[Dean Speir]

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Um, guys, thanks, but this isn't about me or Uncle Jeff or the quality of the public school system in Alabama, it's about Glocks and their remarkable ability to self-destruct if one doesn't exercise the necessary care in ammunition selection.

And young Master Rinspeed, want charm? Then don't come 'round with a mean look and a bad attitude.

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[Elmer]

it's about Glocks and their remarkable ability to self-destruct if one doesn't exercise the necessary care in ammunition selection.

And at least ocassionally, regardless of your ammunition choice.......

 

[JohnKSa]

And at least ocassionally, regardless of your ammunition choice

Hard to argue that, as broad as the statement is--but it's equally hard to argue that such a broad statement doesn't apply to virtually any brand on the market.

jc,

I have never heard the 2/3rds number quoted by Glock. Nor have I heard any official number released by Glock. That number was from a source in LE marketing at Beretta. It doesn't make any sense that Glock would release a number to their competitor but not to the general public, and it also doesn't make sense that a company like Beretta would use a speculative number picked off the web.

 

[Dean Speir]

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And at least ocassionally, regardless of your ammunition choice.......

In fairness, Elmer, the same may be said of any firearm.

.

 

[Elmer]

In fairness, Elmer, the same may be said of any firearm.

That's true. But Gaston and his minions never admit that. It is always someone elses fault.

 

[Elmer]

That number was from a source in LE marketing at Beretta. It doesn't make any sense that Glock would release a number to their competitor but not to the general public, and it also doesn't make sense that a company like Beretta would use a speculative number picked off the web.

John,

If you spent any time with the management folks at the firearms companies, especially one with as fast of a revolving door as Beretta, you wouldn't be surprised at almost anything they would say. Some of the executives have worked for 4 or 5 firearms companies.

By the way, you commented on me not ever hearing of your source at Beretta. I have had dinner over the last few years, with at least four law enforcement sales managers of Beretta.

Never heard of your guy.

 

[oneslowgun]

Just so I can understand...

I bought a Glock 21 in '95. For about a year to 18 months, I shot factory hardball ammo, factory JHP's, my own loaded hardball, JHP's, and yes, my own reloaded lead bullets. At that 12-18 month point, I was told not to use lead in the Glock ( a gunsmith and friend of mine), and I shouldn't be using reloads. Taking his word for it, I used the reloaded (lead and hardball) rounds in my 1911's. Since that time, I have used only jacked factory ammo.

Now, to my point.

Is this Glock 21, fired with reloads ( lead at that) long ago, going to blow up now? And if it does, will it be because I used reloaded ammo 9 yrs. ago? Do I own something I THOUGHT was a handgun, but is really a hand granade just waiting to explode?

Kinda' foolish sounding questions? I ment them that way. How many pistols has Glock made again? How many KB's again? Sure, we all want all firearms to never KB, and we want them all to only shoot MOA, and never have parts wear out/break. If you're holding your breath for that though, you may have a long wait.

I am not a Glock fan, or a Glock hater, but I have owned one for ten years.

 

[jc2]

JohnKSa -

I have never heard the 2/3rds number quoted by Glock. Nor have I heard any official number released by Glock.

From the official Glock website (http://www.glock.com/market_position1.htm)

In the USA, GLOCK pistols are in use in 65 % of law enforcement agencies.

Now, you have! Learn something new everyday, don't you? (In deference to your predilection for splitting hairs, I understand that 65% is not 2/3rds--for the math challenged, it's 67%.)

 

[BluesBear]

You assume that JMB's 1911 pistol IS perfection and in all those years since then no one could possibly invent a better pistol.

You know what happens when you assume don't you?
Bobby Lee, just when I was thinking I might have made an error in having you on my ignore list, you come along and prove my instincts correct.

Now where did I imply that the 1911 was perfection? The is nowhere. Because I haven't. Total perfection is a concept that can never be realized.

The fact of the matter is that John Moses Browning is the single most prolific firearms designed the world has ever known.
After Browning invented, patented and had manufactured all of his single shot rifles, lever action rifles, lever action shotguns, slide action shotguns, slide action rifles, semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic shotguns, semi-automatic handguns and machine guns, pray tell, just how much, in the firearms field, was left to invent that he hadn't played around with and at least laid the groundwork for? Just look at all the different types of self floading firearms he pioneered. Long recoil, short recoil, blowback, tilting barrel, gas operated you name it he worked on it.
In fact every Glock pistol ever made could possibly be marked with the phrase, "John Browning was here."

So please enlighten us. How many really new firearms developments have there been since 1930? A few but in the grand scheme of things, not very many.

Now, having delt with the annoying task of explaining what shouldn't need to be explained...
We now return to the crux of the thread.


So the concept of firing a fixed cartridge in a firearm chamber isn't exactly a bold new concept is it?
Since it's been done in relative satety for over a hundred years now by hundreds of companies, why is it that we are sitting here in the 21st century discussing why a 19th century invention combined with 20th century technology is experiencing a resurgence in catastrophic failures?
There has to be a reason.



One more thing. All three of the .40 caliber Glocks I fired last Friday bulged the cases. Even the guys at the range who sort through the several thousand .40 caliber cases fired there every week, say it's easy to tell which were fired from a Glock. So if your contention that;

You may or may not find one Glock that tends to swell the brass at 6 o'clock.
You will find that most of the Glocks empty brass is perfectly normal.

only some Glocks bulge cases and others do not would imply that Glock has horrible consistancy.
What are you trying to say?
Are you trying to tell us that Glock makes a perfect pistol but only sometimes.
Are you trying to say that YOU can tell, in advance, which Glock will or won't KaBoom?
Are you trying to tell us that Glocks that bulge have a higher chance of going KaBoom?
Are you talking just to hear yourself speak?

All you've told me is that you belong back on my ignore list.
[voice=Anne Robinson]Whose jigsaw is missing more than one piece? Good-Bye![/voice]

 

[Elmer]

In the USA, GLOCK pistols are in use in 65 % of law enforcement agencies.

Thank you for finding that jc2.

As I suspected, what you read in the gun press, and on these boards, is just repeating Glock's own PR. (And frequently misstating it...)

As I said, I saw a list a few years ago, that showed my former agency as a "Glock department." At the time, the Glock wasn't allowed on or off duty. But a number of guys had ordered guns on a "letterhead" law enforcement deal, some just for their collection, some to resell at a profit. (Well, maybe most....). I'm sure that someone, in at least 65% of all departments has ordered a Glock, on a letterhead, claiming it was for use in their "official duties."

So Glock may be a little loose with semantics, but not nearly as bad as those that claim that 65% of cops carry a Glock.

Because that's just Bullsh*t........

 

[jc2]

You're right that quote (which is, after all, from their PR department) is usually misquoted, misrepresented or twisted into suggesting Glock "owns" 65% of the LE which they obviously do not--and their market share they do "own" appears to be hemorrhaging.

 

[Ivy Mike]

so is the answer to this mystery:

1. Buy a better gun
2. Petition Glock for better parts
3. Install better parts yourself
4. Don't use high pressure rounds
5. None of the above
6. All of the above

Choose all that apply.

Myself, I already chose option 1.

 

[Marshall]

Seems options 1-4 all have their merits.

 

[JohnKSa]

In the USA, GLOCK pistols are in use in 65 % of law enforcement agencies.

jc,

There you have it then. Not only from Glock but also from Beretta LE marketing. And the numbers even agree to within 2%.

it's 67%

Well, given that you expect me to split hairs, I'd hate to let you down. So I guess I should point out that 67% differs from 2/3rds by a third of a percent.
Elmer,

Never heard of your guy.

Well, it's for lack of trying. I even gave you the words to type into a search engine. I can't do anymore than that... [edit]Well, maybe I can--try using his middle name in the search as well. "Todd Louis Green"

Here's one hit I got using that name.[/edit]

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/in_the_field/service_handgun_selection/

 

[EVIL5LITER]

Speaking of hauts chevaux, Steve…

Ah, so you start out by trying to throw your intelligence over other people's heads so that if you can't beat them with facts you can dazzle them with bull????...

And you're here to what, settle matters, actually offer up something dispositive of why Glocks seem to be more susceptible to explosive malfunctions if not full-on catastrophic failures?!?

I never said that. I simply asked for facts which you seem to be fresh out of.

As Ross Perot said, I'm all ears.

Too bad there is nothing between them. (And as you'll observe in my next reply to your quotation, I've stooped to your level.)

No, Steve, not "they," me… repeatedly use painfully inept grammar and butcher diction, I may call you on it. You haven't, so I won't… but I am compelled to observe that if that's the sum and substance of what you could glean from the foregoing eight pages, then your reading skills are suspect.

So now that you've decided that you can't provide the answers that I've asked from you, you've decided that you'll just attack my character. Did you learn this from John Kerry?

Okay, you wanna get back on topic, and in that pursuit, you start with a non sequitur?!?

I was simply addressing the entire thread. Do not think so highly of yourself as to think you are the only wrong one in this thread. Do you have trouble getting your swelled head through doorways?

Toward the "back on topic" ideal, I have no track record with Wolf ammo, so I cannot speak to its quality or reliability, but I've got almost twenty (20) years in with Glock, I've done the work, have the reports and have published a collaborative Glock kB! FAQ peer-reviewed (by the old Glock-L list run by Mark Gibson)… and I update it as required.

So you've spent the last twenty years of your life studying this subject, and you cannot tell me what causes this, without question?

I think you need to find another hobby, because you damn sure suck at this one.

Can you at least tell me how many KB's you've got case files on?

I also get a little testy when people misrepresent it.

The only person misrepresenting anything is you misrepresenting your expertise in a field.

If you have an ace in the hole, by all means, please play it now. Please state what makes a Glock pistol more likely to have a catastrophic failure as compared to another firearm. You haven't once in this entire thread offered up anything but insults to other parties. You came into this thread to teach us something, yet the only thing credible to come out of your mouth that is pertinent to this discussion is that MOST Glock KB's are due to reloaded or lead ammo. Which tells us exactly what we already knew. Then you did manage to offer up "I don't know ???? about Wolf ammo (paraphrasing)", which means you have no more business in this thread than I do.

I'm not defending the gun. Yes, I own one. Yes, I know it's shortfalls. I don't pretend that the Glock pistol is the LS1 of the gun world (don't ask). I appreciate the 1911 design for what it is, much like I do the Glock.

I just get pissy when we have an ??????? like you decide to step in here and throw around his intellect like it's a big penis and try and make everyone else feel inferior to you. Are you trying to compensate for something? Does being the big, bad Glock bully on the net give you a stiffy or something?

Bring your A-game next time, bitch, because you just got served.

 

[Bobby Lee]

"Are you trying to tell us that Glocks that bulge have a higher chance of going KaBoom?
Are you talking just to hear yourself speak?

All you've told me is that you belong back on my ignore list"

Please put me on your ignore list. That would please me very much.

I really can't seem to understand why the above quote goes over your head. It seems to me that it could be understood by the average first grader.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Despite attempts by some of this thread's posters, the content and tone has fallen from the standards required here. If folks cannot post w/o at least a minum of courtesy, perhaps they should simply refrain from posting.

In any event, the thread is locked.