Glock 23 KaBoom w/Wolf ammo

[Onmilo]

Glock won't release the actual numbers but from some academic study let's discuss the numbers.

1,750,000 Glock handguns produced in all calibers, MINIMUM.
It could be twice that many but Glock ain't saying.

At least 400,000 of these pistols are caliber .40 S&W and distributed worldwide.
That's four hundred thousand folks.

I find less than 100 recorded instances of Glock .40 caliber pistols "ka-booming".

I find even fewer instances of other caliber Glocks doing the exploding pistol trick, one would think with all the trouble from the .40 caliber guns that the 10mm caliber guns would explode in 1000 shots or less but this just doesn't happen, not in cyberfantasy nor in real life, Hmmmm,,,,,

Globally, Americans are one of the few people on earth who are legally allowed to reload their own ammunition.
Most places will let you have a gun but severely restrict the amount of ammunition you can shoot through it year to year, and reload your own, forget it.
"Ka-booms" just don't appear to happen in other parts of the world only here in the good old USA and just about every reference to a Glock doing the amazing exploding pistol trick is directly traced back to reloaded ammunition.

The cop chick may have fired a slew of lead bullet reloads in the pistol before firing that nasty Wolf factory cartridge, who knows, and I bet she isn't saying.

Point is, nobody that actually follows the recommendation in the Glock factory manual to use good quality ammunition, NO RELOADS-EVER, has ever had their Glock pistol explode.

I know, I know, Lots of folks are going to come up and say well my buddy shoots only factory and,,,, Right, uh-huh.

Let this thing go, If a shooter isn't willing to follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter then the shooter doesn't need to be owning that particular firearm and frankly I know of very few manufacturers that recommend shooting turd ammunition in their products.

 

[Rinspeed]

I find less than 100 recorded instances of Glock .40 caliber pistols "ka-booming".

Unless you are a member of the senior management team at Glock you would never have a clue of how many there have been. Do you think Glock is going to make it public knowledge. How many out of the 400,000 owners do you suppose post on the errornet in some gun forum.

Point is, nobody that actually follows the recommendation in the Glock factory manual to use good quality ammunition, NO RELOADS-EVER, has ever had their Glock pistol explode.

I have heard of several cases where factory ammo was used and the Glock 23 or 21 KB'ed so I wouldn't say it has never happened.

 

[Elmer]

Grape or Black Cherry?

Point is, nobody that actually follows the recommendation in the Glock factory manual to use good quality ammunition, NO RELOADS-EVER, has ever had their Glock pistol explode.

That is a classic Kool-Aid drinker.......

It would take you about 5 minutes to do a search and come up with several Kabooms with factory ammo, in guns that had only been fired with factory ammo. For a start, you could go to Dean Speir's web page devoted to the phenomena. Kaboom faq Most police departments use only factory ammo these days, and when they give you your ammo for free, there isn't a lot of reason to go buy reloads on your own.

If you search the police boards you'll find lots more.

I repeat. We'll never get good answers about this situation as long as some Glock owners, (and some rangemaster's...), take questions about problems with their gun as a personal insult. No one is saying that this problem is happening to every Glock, but wouldn't you like to know what's causing it for sure?

When S&W had problems with the early L frame revolvers, they denied it and blamed it on the ammo companies, until departments started talking to each other about it. I never had the problem with mine, but I damn sure wanted to know the facts about it. When Smith finally admitted the problem, and issued a recall, I had mine fixed by our armorer, again, even though mine hadn't exhibited the problem.

PS.

"Ka-booms" just don't appear to happen in other parts of the world only here in the good old USA

hint:

The kabooms have been almost exclusively .40 and .45 caliber guns. The rest of the world is a 9mm place.....

 

[Onmilo]

I like Kool-aid and if that is your best insult to my opinion save it.

Dean Speirs website is interesting at the very least, entertaining at its best, far more militant than THR and way more vocal.

As I said, only factory ammo and factory ammo only and it still went boom, Were you there for every round fired?
Was Dean Speir?
Would the whoever was involved admit any different when litigation is involved?
Think a cop will give you an honest answer when millions of dollars in rewards may be on the line?

I thought not,,,,,,,

 

[Elmer]

What Speir's website does do, is name names, places and times. Far more than you are able to do.

Your answer to the issue is that all these guns were fired with reloads at some time or another. You don't know that, and evidence would seem to contradict it. But you believe it anyway.

That is where the Kool-Aid drinker reference comes from. Someone who just believes. No reason. Just believes.

Me, I want to know the truth.

Why does that scare you so much?

 

[medmo]

I enjoy my Kool Aid-Glock Flavored beverage in 9mm. The rest of the flavors seem to have brass not surrounded by a whole bunch of chamber. You can even find comparison photos posted on THR... never mind the rest of the huge world wide web. Cartridge manufacturers will have "variance" but will the designed chamber function with 100% of the variance?

 

[Bobby Lee]

That is where the Kool-Aid drinker reference comes from. Someone who just believes. No reason. Just believes.

If one has owned and fired thousands of rounds through Glocks since the late 80's without a single problem and they shoot them well and they have compared them to other guns then they have a good reason to believe in the design.

I am a believer from personal experience so I don't tend to let Mr Speir or any other internt expert tell me how to live and what gun to carry.

And I don't care for Kool- Aid.

 

[Jamie C.]

Kool-aid ain't too bad if you put enough bourbon in it....

As for Glocks.... they're good pistols. Just not perfect.

And Dean Spier? Well, if you read his Glock pages you'll find out that he too carries a Glock every now and then, and that his biggest beef is with Glock management, not Glock pistols.

But irregardless of what you think of Glocks, the fact is that somebody somewhere does need to get to the bottom of this whole kB! mess, and find out what the truth of the matter is. I figure the folks at Glock could probably clear the whole thing up, if they'd just be a bit more truthful and forthcoming.


J.C.

 

[robertbank]

I don't own a Glock but have picked up enough.40 cal brass on our range here after the Federal Fishery boys have done their thing. Without exception you can see at the six oclock position on the brass a slight swelling of the case where it is unsupported. I suspect that these well documented Kabooms that do occur involve a barrel that is oout of spec in the chamber area or a build up of gunk that pushes the pressures over the limit. Why Glock does not produce barrels that fully support the case is anybodys guess.

The design is good, I guess and lord knows they must be produced cheaply enough for what they sell the guns to the PD for. Personnaly I will stick to my CZ/Hi-Poweer, 1911's and leave the Glock .40's to those who either have no choice or don't mind the potential for a surprise.

 

[The Rabbi]

For some reason I only hear about Glocks blowing up or slam firing. I guess it might happen sometimes to other guns but I dont hear about it. I have never heard of a Smith revolver blowing up without serious help from a reloader.

As far as cheap ammo, I consider the ability to feed, fire, and eject any ammo chambered for the gun a mark of quality. IMO a poor-quality gun will be particular about ammo but a well designed well made gun will not. So I'm happy using cheap ammo as a test.

 

[Elmer]

I have no idea what causes the problem. The unsupported case, the tendency to fire out of battery, the lack of heat treating, and the metallurgy are all theories I've heard.

I think Speir's problem does stem from the management at Glock's reaction to any issue with the Gun. I believe their mindset has filtered down to a lot of the owners. That's why you see the kind of reactions here to any criticism, or even questions. It is very cult like. The closest thing I've ever seen to it was the 1911 crowd in the late 70's. I was one of the faithful, but after watching average shooters working with them, I came to the conclusion that the gun was for experts, not for general issue.

You could discuss any number of problems with other weapon systems here, and owners of those systems would participate with an eye towards learning about the issue. They would want to know the facts.

Meanwhile, the Glock faithful reacts with denials, attacks, and name calling. Years of police work has taught me, that usually means dishonesty.

 

[Elmer]

As for Glocks.... they're good pistols. Just not perfect.

But irregardless of what you think of Glocks, the fact is that somebody somewhere does need to get to the bottom of this whole kB! mess, and find out what the truth of the matter is. I figure the folks at Glock could probably clear the whole thing up, if they'd just be a bit more truthful and forthcoming.

Jamie C,
I couldn't agree more, on both counts.

 

[Bobby Lee]

Meanwhile, the Glock faithful reacts with denials, attacks, and name calling. Years of police work has taught me, that usually means dishonesty.

Years of police work has caused you to believe everyone you meet is a liar and that everyone else but cops are pieces of ???? that don't deserve to breathe the same air that you do.

Your outlook on life is typical of people in your line of work.

 

[Marshall]

Years of police work has caused you to believe everyone you meet is a liar and that everyone else but cops are pieces of ???? that don't deserve to breathe the same air that you do.

I don't think Elmer thinks I'm a liar, I'm not a policeman. Guess that blows that theory.

 

[Elmer]

An incredible example of putting words in someone else's mouth, Bobby Lee. Have you thought about a career in politics?

You keep showing yourself more and more........

 

[Jamie C.]

Years of police work has caused you to believe everyone you meet is a liar and that everyone else but cops are pieces of ???? that don't deserve to breathe the same air that you do.

You really should re-read what Elmer wrote, Bobby Lee, 'cause no where in there did he say any such thing.

Your outlook on life is typical of people in your line of work.

'Scuse me??? I happen to be one of those people from "that line of work".
And I don't know if you've noticed, but I don't uphold either the view that Glocks are "perfect" or that they're "Crap".


I'm certainly of the opinion that reacting either irrationally or unduly emotional over a mechanical device is indicative of some sort of disorder or mental issue, however.




J.C.

 

[Elmer]

Thanks, Jamie.

My posts here really have less to do about the problems in the gun, then of the problems with those who refuse to discuss them.

And I don't think you have to be a cop to see that denials, attacks, and name calling, in response to questions, usually point to a level of dishonesty.

When S&W had some of their problems in the 80's, one agency would call in and be told "Oh, you're using Remington ammuntion? You should be using Winchester." The next would be told the exact opposite. The next would be told to use Federal.

Didn't take long for rangemasters to put 2 and 2 together.

I see a lot of similarities.....

 

[Jamie C.]

Thanks, Jamie.

Don't mention it, Elmer.
I just can't abide seeing somebody try to make something that somebody else said into something else entirely.

As for Glocks, Like I said, I think they're pretty good pistols.
I carried a G-22 for a couple of years while working for the local S.O. One of the old "slick" framed ones, without the finger grooves or the rail. (Which I much prefer to the newer ones. )
I think at last count, that poor gun had more than 10,000 rounds through it, without the first problem or mis-fire.

But the fact that I had no problems out of it doesn't mean that other people aren't having problems out of theirs, or are somehow exaggerating the problems that they are having.


All in all, if I still had that gun today, having seen and heard all that I have, I do believe that I'd be contacting Bar-Sto or somebody for a barrel with a more fully supported chamber.


Oh, and I also had a G-19 that I liked, and also had zero problems with.....except for those damnable finger grooves.....



J.C.

 

[Elmer]

I agree with everything you said Jamie. There's a lot to like about the Glock, especially in 9mm. I'm not comfortable with the short travel trigger, and no manual safety, but that's my opinion.

The kb problem is by no means, a "set your hair on fire" problem, but we're not getting the whole story, either.

I remember when Ruger recalled the original P-85 for a firing pin breakage. As far as I know, Ruger only saw it once, but decided to recall all of the guns anyway for a slide replacement.

Honesty goes a long way in my book. I just wish they'd make a gun that felt good in my hand.

 

[Dionysusigma]

The Rabbi: For some reason I only hear about Glocks blowing up or slam firing. I guess it might happen sometimes to other guns but I dont hear about it. I have never heard of a Smith revolver blowing up without serious help from a reloader.

Someone page Clark!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=22071

Clark, here on THR, has blown up several guns (out of curiosity). Granted, it was intentional, but his findings are impressive nonetheless.

 

[BullRock]

For some reason I only hear about Glocks blowing up or slam firing. I guess it might happen sometimes to other guns but I dont hear about it. I have never heard of a Smith revolver blowing up without serious help from a reloader.

I agree with The Rabbi. I don't HEAR about other guns going KaBoom, and I spend allot of time on forums. I own a couple of auto's that include H&K, Browning, Sig., CZ, Ruger, and Taurus. I'm sure I would have taken notice.

 

[don10m]

Then go to the Ruger forum if you dont think a Ruger has ever Kb I've seen kimber 1911's Kb, HK USP 45's Kb, and yes even the Sig's Kb, but yes Glock has sold alot of guns over 2 million 6 years ago, I bet that number has increased ALOT since. And 70% of law enforcement carries Glocks. They other 30 is split between the Sigs, HK's,Ruger's, Smiths and so on, so yes I would say that Glocks get shot more that other brands everyday.

 

[The Rabbi]

Then go to the Ruger forum if you dont think a Ruger has ever Kb I've seen kimber 1911's Kb, HK USP 45's Kb, and yes even the Sig's Kb

Remind me not to go shooting with you. None of us has ever seen that.

 

[don10m]

Did I say I ever had a Kb, no I didn't, pictures, ever seen one.

 

[larry starling]

My CHEAP! shooting partner/ best friend? Bought a case of Wolf in 45 acp and no problems! My personal taste forbids me from buying cheap ammo and cheap guns! no pun intended!