MonthOfAngle
Member
IMHO they are both great guns, and hence have not lost market preference, but lets not make this a pissing contest and remember the original post was about :
Glock G-19 or CZ 75B?
- Thread starter Jonah71
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dogtown tom
Member
+1
I think the CZ fanboys got upset that the 75B wasn't the "best" for direct comparison to the G19, and suggested other CZ handguns like the P01.
Of course THAT could have been countered with the Glock 26......
This could go on for days.............stick a fork in it.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Fastcast
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Well, duck hunting is nothing like elk hunting. Especially "Wood duck" hunting which many times happens in a flurry of, oh **** confusion
, on quick moving/flying targets, with little if any time to concentrate on a good clean shot....It's more like a reaction, snap shot....Kind of like I'd envision a self defense, hand gun scenario but that just shows your inexperience, as to what I was talking about.schmeky
Member
tipoc,
Your post 140 is well stated. The Glock nor the CZ folks are going to convince each other beyond their entrenced experiences/opinions.
It's fun reading all the posts, but at the end of the day, the CZ or Glock fan is going to walk away and do what they have always done.
Hopefully the OP's question has been addressed. If not, go to a gunshop with 12 months no interest (with approved credit of course ), buy a G19 and a CZ, sell the one you like the least, and consider the small amount of money lost on selling one or the other a good bought lesson.
Let us know what you do, good luck, and be sure to take a saftey course if you need one.
Your post 140 is well stated. The Glock nor the CZ folks are going to convince each other beyond their entrenced experiences/opinions.
It's fun reading all the posts, but at the end of the day, the CZ or Glock fan is going to walk away and do what they have always done.
Hopefully the OP's question has been addressed. If not, go to a gunshop with 12 months no interest (with approved credit of course
), buy a G19 and a CZ, sell the one you like the least, and consider the small amount of money lost on selling one or the other a good bought lesson.Let us know what you do, good luck, and be sure to take a saftey course if you need one.
Zak Smith
Member
During Force on Force training - which is about the closest you can get to actual real-life defensive use of a firearm with putting a bullet in someone, it has been my experience that the practical competition shooters come into it with superior gun-handling and marksmanship skills and can focus on the mindset and tactics portions of the training instead of having problems simply operating the gun. Remember that gun-handling and marksmanship are two thirds if the Combat Triad! In short, far from the liability you claim, their "practical shooting" experience is clearly an asset.
I don't even have to make a strained analogy about the "Clay Bird Jockeys" vs. hunting; I've directly observed the exact case - practical competition vs. real-life defensive stress - and it pans out opposite of what you claim.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
And defensive shooting is nothing like elk hunting, nor is IPSC anything like bird hunting.
Unrelated things are unrelated.
I come home from my weekend and find this thread still kicking and screaming. Again I do not consider myself a fan boy, well I used to be a custom .45 kind of guy till I made a switch to double stack for a lot of reasons. The only full sized CZ I own is a 1984 iron curtain carry back from a Pilot that was stationed at the time in West Germany, which ironically fits in all my 1911 holsters. I have no troubles caring it concealed.tipoc,
Your post 140 is well stated. The Glock nor the CZ folks are going to convince each other beyond their entrenced experiences/opinions.
It's fun reading all the posts, but at the end of the day, the CZ or Glock fan is going to walk away and do what they have always done.
Hopefully the OP's question has been addressed. If not, go to a gunshop with 12 months no interest (with approved credit of course
Let us know what you do, good luck, and be sure to take a saftey course if you need one.
If you can swing it then get both, take them too the range and shoot them. Take a "Dynamic Handgun" class and learn skills which will show you that the tool is not as important as the operator is. Training is paramount, as is having equipment that will serve you well. Add a physical fitness routine and you will be golden.
Good Luck OP.
A full sized CZ is not comparable to a Glock 19 in dimensions, weight, barrel length and thickness. The CZ p-01 is closer to its size and purpose. Which is why I suggested it to the OP.
tipoc
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I agree with ozmosis here. It's often said and it is true..."It ain't the hardware, it's the software".
I do have to add that it seems to me that like a knife, or a hammer or any other tool if it fits the shooters hand well they will shoot that gun better and manage it better. There is 150 years of handgun shooting, in many disciplines, that back that statement up. One size does not always fit all.
tipoc
I do have to add that it seems to me that like a knife, or a hammer or any other tool if it fits the shooters hand well they will shoot that gun better and manage it better. There is 150 years of handgun shooting, in many disciplines, that back that statement up. One size does not always fit all.
tipoc
kentucky_smith
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When admins troll.
schmeky
Member
Based on the OP's original post, I would say a G19 (Yes, I've owned one). An aluminim framed CZ is an excellent option as well. I find the ergonomics and shooting characteristics of the CZ superior for ME, I can shoot a CZ better and hit what I am aiming at with a higher degree of proficiency with a CZ, but that's ME.
If you're going to carry a gun for self defense, this is potentially a seriously decision and anyone should devote the time to be proficient with whatever you choose. I don't feel a manual saftey, DA/SA, decocker, et al, is a detriment based on the latter statement.
Both are fine weapons.
Zak Smith
Member
It is except when it isn't. Both are actually important, and neither extreme represents reality. Let's consider the El Presidente as an arbitrary exercise. A mediocre competition shooter (let's say C class USPSA) with virtually any properly running modern autopistol will handily beat an expert shooter using a pistol that malfunctions several times during the exercise.
At a more subtle level, generally between shooters of similar skill level, the one with the better equipment (ie more suited to the tasks at hand) will usually perform better when graded objectively on results. Conversely, given two sets of equipment that are pretty similar, the difference in shooter skill level will determine who has the better performance.
These two phenomenons can be easily observed at almost any large practical shooting match. The top shooters in the same division are usually shooting very similar gear, and the differentiation in the top 5 or top 10 is primarily due to skill difference (or day to day luck etc). In the mid pack, you have people with moderate skill levels and some of them are differentiated by gear, but there is differentiation by skill as well. At the bottom you generally have people who have low skill levels and are using gear not particularly suited to the challenges at hand. So a mid pack shooter with pretty good skills but poor equipment can typically improve his overall performance by getting better gear: now he needs to improve his skill to use the gear to its potential.
Tacbandit
Member
Glock 19, for sure...!!!
JohnBT
Member
Not for me, for sure.
tipoc
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Sad to see a fella argue against himself or argue for the sake of it.
In the case mentioned above the more experienced shooter made a mistake that was a rookie mistake. This happens. But don't blame the gun for it. The "expert" did not check his pistol out prior to the match, or his handloads were untested, or he left his mags at home and borrowed some from another competitor, or...whatever the reason it was not the fault of the gun but of the "expert". Of course sometimes something just breaks at an inconvenient moment. The experienced shooter will keep running as best they can. It's usually the software, not the hardware. Zak knows this and knows that experience (which is a part of the software of skills and knowledge) will lead one to the guns and preparation to get through a match with a minimum of error.
But the point being is this...choose a weapon that functions well and is reliable but also one that fits you and that you like. Avoid the one that does not fit you and that you don't like even, if some fella tells you it is the "worlds best fighting handgun". Shoot the gun you picked and then shoot it some more. In time, try out the one recommended by the odd mouthy fella. In the fullness of time your tastes may change and you will learn more. Your opinion may be different in 5 years.
tipoc
Zak Smith
Member
Yes- Mindset is the critical aspect of fighting pistol selection (or competition pistol selection in your re-statement). That's the point I've been re-iterating throughout this thread. The ability to discern which pistol will "get one through" with a minimum of error and will "function well" depends on experience. The ability to recognize the importance of those things in a fighting pistol demonstrates good mindset.
Most people do not have the experience to know which aspects of a handgun actually affect their ability to operate the pistol under stress nor the other things that affect its ability to "make it through" a stressful encounter, training, or a competition. It is extremely unlikely that anyone who has not trained intensively for defense or competition will be able to successfully make such a determination.
Just like the ostensible "expert" in my example making the rookie mistake of bringing a gun that doesn't work, a person who makes the same rookie mistake during selection of a defensive pistol is having a failure of mindset.
Thanks for illustrating my point.
Mad Chemist
Member
Zombie thread...just....won't...die...
Jonah71
Member
After all of this, I went with a Kahr .40 for now. Have decided to save my $$ for awhile and get a Sig. P 239 9mm. or .40 Compact.
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Jonah71
Member
And btw....I bought the cheaper Kahr. the CW 40.
Full Metal Jacket
member
my CZ's have been more reliable than my glock 19's.
both good guns, but i have to give the edge to CZ
both good guns, but i have to give the edge to CZ
Fastcast
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LMAO......Not hardly!
FWIW.....The CZ looks, feels and functions more like a "real" pistol than the "toy" sensation one has after handling a Glock.
REAPER4206969
Member
You need to read the OP.
What do you EDC?
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