Got my hands on the new .45 from Kahr.
- Thread starter epijunkie67
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One thing you can't tell until you handle one is how incredibly slim Kahr pistols are. They have a bad habit of making everything else seem suddenly wider.
I still won't purchase another polymer Kahr yet, but I'm keeping up with the line, waiting for the day that I can truely trust one again, or until someone else offers a pistol as slim.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
I just bought a Kahr P45 a little over a week ago.
It seems like a quality firearm. It comes with 2 magazines, both with the slightly extended finger floor plate. It has polygonal rifling. It has some pretty sharp and brutal checkering/stippling for my tastes. Not bad in the hand, but will not be pleasant against your gut in IWB type carry. If the gun proves reliable, and is a keeper, I will have to file them down a little. Overall, the quality looks great. Well machined, feedramps very well polished and curved. This is a small .45, and it's thin. Great for carry.
I don't have a PM or P9 to compare to, but this has steel inserts to support the polymer frame. If I had to guess, I'd say that the frame will flex. Hell, even my HK USP frame flexes. I guess that's the price you pay for polymer and lightness. We'll see how that plays out.
I have yet to take it to the range. I will probably take it before the end of the week. I will come back with a range report.
The magazines seem close to the 1911. Virtually identical to the 1911 mags with the exception of the mag catch hole. I am willing to bet I can take a 6 round 1911 mag, dremmel the mag catch just slightly bigger, and have a flush-fitting magazine. Someone told me Kahr has copied the S&W style mags...
This has the machined slide stop, unlike the CW9 or E9 with the MIM slide stop (which snapped in two pieces on me on a rental)
I expect recoil to be stiff. I've shot a 23oz Star PD before, and the recoil was hard. I don't expect it to be that bad, because the Kahr has a higher % of it's height being handle. You can get a FULL grip on it, and the bore-axis is very low to the hand. This should make a big difference (I hope). I'm not the senstive type when it comes to recoil. It doesn't bother me much. I'm just wondering how controllable it will be for follow-up shots. Either way, it's not going to be my range gun that I spray 400 rounds downrange with. It will serve as a carry gun, with 50-75 rounds per range session for function checks and practice/familiarity training.
It seems like a quality firearm. It comes with 2 magazines, both with the slightly extended finger floor plate. It has polygonal rifling. It has some pretty sharp and brutal checkering/stippling for my tastes. Not bad in the hand, but will not be pleasant against your gut in IWB type carry. If the gun proves reliable, and is a keeper, I will have to file them down a little. Overall, the quality looks great. Well machined, feedramps very well polished and curved. This is a small .45, and it's thin. Great for carry.
I don't have a PM or P9 to compare to, but this has steel inserts to support the polymer frame. If I had to guess, I'd say that the frame will flex. Hell, even my HK USP frame flexes. I guess that's the price you pay for polymer and lightness. We'll see how that plays out.
I have yet to take it to the range. I will probably take it before the end of the week. I will come back with a range report.
The magazines seem close to the 1911. Virtually identical to the 1911 mags with the exception of the mag catch hole. I am willing to bet I can take a 6 round 1911 mag, dremmel the mag catch just slightly bigger, and have a flush-fitting magazine. Someone told me Kahr has copied the S&W style mags...
This has the machined slide stop, unlike the CW9 or E9 with the MIM slide stop (which snapped in two pieces on me on a rental)
I expect recoil to be stiff. I've shot a 23oz Star PD before, and the recoil was hard. I don't expect it to be that bad, because the Kahr has a higher % of it's height being handle. You can get a FULL grip on it, and the bore-axis is very low to the hand. This should make a big difference (I hope). I'm not the senstive type when it comes to recoil. It doesn't bother me much. I'm just wondering how controllable it will be for follow-up shots. Either way, it's not going to be my range gun that I spray 400 rounds downrange with. It will serve as a carry gun, with 50-75 rounds per range session for function checks and practice/familiarity training.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
*** RANGE REPORT ***
Took it to the range today. First I cleaned out the crud from the factory, and oiled it the way I like with CLP. Took a 100rd box of the Winchester USA value pack (dirty ammo).
Reliability: Good
Fired 100 rounds without any serious issues. Between the 80-85th rounds, 1 round did not fully go into the chamber, needed about 1/8 to close. I pushed on the side of the slide with my weak hand's thumb and it closed. That was the only malfunction. No failures to extract, eject or feed that require any sort of clearance drills. While technically a malfunction, it was easily dealt with. Still only 100 rounds through the 200rd break-in period. Time will tell. By next session I will know if she's a keeper.
Recoil: Medium.
I thought this gun would be bad. It feels identical to my HK USP 9mm with +p+...basically a little bit stiffer than regular 9mm. My hand wasn't sore, tired or bothered in anyway afterwards. I could shoot another 100 no problem. If anything, my fingers were more tired from loading the magazine than anything the recoil did. The Kahr's proportions make it a short pistol for easy concealability, yet the grip is large, it allows you to get a fully hand on there. That and the low bore-axis to hand factor makes the recoil a breeze.
Accuracy: Excellent.
I'm not a very good pistol shooter. I usually only shoot 1911's with long sight radii and light triggers well because they are a crutch and just "make it easy"..for a double action, short barrel compact defense gun..at the 7-yard (defensive line) all holes in the target were touching. Kahr has no doubt the BEST DAO trigger I've ever used.
Overall: Good so far (but still pending for more testing)
Still not decided until it proves it can go another 100-200 rounds without issues. But it's concept, concealability, accuracy, trigger, ease to shoot make this a great gun. I hope for the best in future range sessions.
Took it to the range today. First I cleaned out the crud from the factory, and oiled it the way I like with CLP. Took a 100rd box of the Winchester USA value pack (dirty ammo).
Reliability: Good
Fired 100 rounds without any serious issues. Between the 80-85th rounds, 1 round did not fully go into the chamber, needed about 1/8 to close. I pushed on the side of the slide with my weak hand's thumb and it closed. That was the only malfunction. No failures to extract, eject or feed that require any sort of clearance drills. While technically a malfunction, it was easily dealt with. Still only 100 rounds through the 200rd break-in period. Time will tell. By next session I will know if she's a keeper.
Recoil: Medium.
I thought this gun would be bad. It feels identical to my HK USP 9mm with +p+...basically a little bit stiffer than regular 9mm. My hand wasn't sore, tired or bothered in anyway afterwards. I could shoot another 100 no problem. If anything, my fingers were more tired from loading the magazine than anything the recoil did. The Kahr's proportions make it a short pistol for easy concealability, yet the grip is large, it allows you to get a fully hand on there. That and the low bore-axis to hand factor makes the recoil a breeze.
Accuracy: Excellent.
I'm not a very good pistol shooter. I usually only shoot 1911's with long sight radii and light triggers well because they are a crutch and just "make it easy"..for a double action, short barrel compact defense gun..at the 7-yard (defensive line) all holes in the target were touching. Kahr has no doubt the BEST DAO trigger I've ever used.
Overall: Good so far (but still pending for more testing)
Still not decided until it proves it can go another 100-200 rounds without issues. But it's concept, concealability, accuracy, trigger, ease to shoot make this a great gun. I hope for the best in future range sessions.
JJohnston015
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2003
- Messages
- 466
How does the "length of pull" (distance from the backstrap to the trigger) compare with a 1911? How about frontstrap to backstrtap distance? Width of grip?
Don't Tread On Me
Member
I'll measure it when I get back from the gunshow tomorrow...
epijunkie67
Member
Sorry about the long delay in a reply. I've been moving. :banghead:
Purchased the pistol a few days ago. My out the door price including taxes and NICS was <$740. I took it to the range later that day.
Problem.
I put half a box of range ammo through it and had to stop due to repeated problem. No FTF or FTE but several times the trigger would not fully "reset" itself. I'd fire, bang, case eject, new round chamber, and try to pull the trigger. But instead of the trigger pulling back the striker it would ....slip, for want of a better term. After pulling the trigger 2 or 3 times it would catch whatever it was supposed to catch and I would have a normal trigger pull. This occured about once or twice per magazine.
I took it back to the gun store the next day. They had their gunsmith look at it and he thinks the chamber isn't fully reamed. The store is covering the cost of having the chamber reamed in house. I told them they could send it to Kahr if they prefered but they wanted to get it back to me ASAP.
On the up side, recoil was very reasonable. Stiffer than a full sized 1911 but no worse than my S&W .40. Of course I use a PM9 with +P ammo and I think that's reasonable recoil also. So maybe I'm not the best guy to ask.
I'll let you know when I get it back and how it shoots after the repair.
Purchased the pistol a few days ago. My out the door price including taxes and NICS was <$740. I took it to the range later that day.
Problem.
I put half a box of range ammo through it and had to stop due to repeated problem. No FTF or FTE but several times the trigger would not fully "reset" itself. I'd fire, bang, case eject, new round chamber, and try to pull the trigger. But instead of the trigger pulling back the striker it would ....slip, for want of a better term. After pulling the trigger 2 or 3 times it would catch whatever it was supposed to catch and I would have a normal trigger pull. This occured about once or twice per magazine.
I took it back to the gun store the next day. They had their gunsmith look at it and he thinks the chamber isn't fully reamed. The store is covering the cost of having the chamber reamed in house. I told them they could send it to Kahr if they prefered but they wanted to get it back to me ASAP.
On the up side, recoil was very reasonable. Stiffer than a full sized 1911 but no worse than my S&W .40. Of course I use a PM9 with +P ammo and I think that's reasonable recoil also. So maybe I'm not the best guy to ask.
I'll let you know when I get it back and how it shoots after the repair.
epijunkie67
Member
update
Got my 45 back from Kahr. It took several weeks for them to fiddle with it but I have to say that whatever they did fixed the problem. Took it to coal creek in knoxville and did some function testing.
Went through several different types of ammo in both factory mags. No FTF or FTE. Weapon fed both 185gn and 230 gn FMJ and HP ammo with ease.
Recoil was slightly stiffer than my Para LDA but the Kahr also weighs half as much so this is no suprise. I still found it to be very managable, though I've always found .45 to be managable. Maybe it's because it was the first pistol I ever shot back when I joined the army.
The trigger was quite smooth but had the typical long stroke pull of a DAO weapon. Accuracy for me was OK but not as good as I'd like it to be. I think that had a lot more to do with me than with the weapon. It's so light I found it very easy to alter my point of aim during the firing process. I think once I get used to the feel of the grip and get used to the trigger my groups should shrink considerably.
Overall I'm quite happy with it. It is exactly what it is supposed to be. A light, thin, powerful, easy to conceal handgun in a proven caliber. Now I have to wait for people to start making carry holsters for them unless I want to go with one of the generic "fits small to medium autos" nylon ones.
Got my 45 back from Kahr. It took several weeks for them to fiddle with it but I have to say that whatever they did fixed the problem. Took it to coal creek in knoxville and did some function testing.
Went through several different types of ammo in both factory mags. No FTF or FTE. Weapon fed both 185gn and 230 gn FMJ and HP ammo with ease.
Recoil was slightly stiffer than my Para LDA but the Kahr also weighs half as much so this is no suprise. I still found it to be very managable, though I've always found .45 to be managable. Maybe it's because it was the first pistol I ever shot back when I joined the army.
The trigger was quite smooth but had the typical long stroke pull of a DAO weapon. Accuracy for me was OK but not as good as I'd like it to be. I think that had a lot more to do with me than with the weapon. It's so light I found it very easy to alter my point of aim during the firing process. I think once I get used to the feel of the grip and get used to the trigger my groups should shrink considerably.
Overall I'm quite happy with it. It is exactly what it is supposed to be. A light, thin, powerful, easy to conceal handgun in a proven caliber. Now I have to wait for people to start making carry holsters for them unless I want to go with one of the generic "fits small to medium autos" nylon ones.
Holster choices
I don't know much about the leather holsters, but the Mikes IWB holsters #15and #16 fit my familys compacts. They are both soft nylong models, not stiff at all. We have a PT145 and a PT111 by Taurus, approximately the same size as your Kahr. One of them, #16 I think, has the belt clip higher on the holster than the other, allowing it to ride lower on your hip. I find the one that places the gun further beneath my love handles more comfortable. The other seems to hold it above the center of mass, making it feel wobbly on your hip.
Either is a decent choice for keeping the gun in the drawer of the nightstand when not in use in my opinion, but the nylon does wear pretty fast from the slide stop and safety. No thumb strap on these models either. However, they were about $15 bucks each, easily holding me over until I find a good leather rig I can hang onto permanently.
jeepmor
PS - Please elaborate on your LDA, I've been looking at these and this is the first time I've heard of them having issues. Please share on another thread about it's woes. And oh yeah, let us know what model it is also. I use this forum as a sounding board in the decision making process because it's usually firsthand experiences being shared, not just hearsay....well, usually
I don't know much about the leather holsters, but the Mikes IWB holsters #15and #16 fit my familys compacts. They are both soft nylong models, not stiff at all. We have a PT145 and a PT111 by Taurus, approximately the same size as your Kahr. One of them, #16 I think, has the belt clip higher on the holster than the other, allowing it to ride lower on your hip. I find the one that places the gun further beneath my love handles more comfortable. The other seems to hold it above the center of mass, making it feel wobbly on your hip.
Either is a decent choice for keeping the gun in the drawer of the nightstand when not in use in my opinion, but the nylon does wear pretty fast from the slide stop and safety. No thumb strap on these models either. However, they were about $15 bucks each, easily holding me over until I find a good leather rig I can hang onto permanently.
jeepmor
PS - Please elaborate on your LDA, I've been looking at these and this is the first time I've heard of them having issues. Please share on another thread about it's woes. And oh yeah, let us know what model it is also. I use this forum as a sounding board in the decision making process because it's usually firsthand experiences being shared, not just hearsay....well, usually
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