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Got pulled over while carrying...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gpjoe, Mar 26, 2013.

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  1. gpjoe

    gpjoe Member

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    So, it happened - my first traffic stop by a LEO while carrying concealed. I saw the lights flashing behind me and turned off the road at the earliest safe location.

    After having read a lot about how to handle the situation (I live in Michigan and I am required by law to disclose), I grabbed my wallet from my pocket, got out my driver's license and concealed pistol license, and rolled down my window. When the cop approached I had both hands on the wheel. He asked for my license and I passed him both, and said "Officer, I am carrying a concealed weapon".

    Well, his response sort of surprised me:

    "Mr. XXXXXX I am pulling you over for speeding. You were going 13 over the limit, so I had to pull you over."

    He then passed my CPL back to me and walked back to his car to write the ticket.

    Anyway, I was surprised that he chose not to disarm me. I'm not a cop but I would be extremely uncomfortable returning to a vehicle to deliver a ticket to an armed person that I have never met and don't know anything about, though he obviously made some sort of judgment call, based on the information at his disposal.

    He wrote me up for "Impeding Traffic" which in my state is no points, and as I understand does not appear on your record. Really, it's a cash cow for the city as they do not have to share any of the "proceeds" with the state. I don't mind since I did break the law and it is much better than getting points on my record and having my insurance go up hundreds of $$$ per year. As I considered this a “break” I politely thanked him and proceeded on my way.

    I would love to see responses from some LEOs so I might understand their thought process in these situations, and why they may or may not disarm the person. In other words - as an LEO have you already decided to disarm every person in every case as standard procedure, or do you make that call on an individual basis? If your decision to disarm is always made on the scene, what is your criteria (besides obvious stupidity on the driver’s part such as giving you attitude, reeking of alcohol, or otherwise doing something illegal on top of the traffic offense)?

    Final thoughts before I click "submit new thread":

    - I really hope this thread doesn't go south, I am very interested in hear from some LEOs, so please no bad-mouthing any officers. That is not the intent of this thread.

    - Mods: If this is posted in the wrong place, please move, or if it seems like a ticking bomb - feel free to lock or delete.
     
  2. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    Your permit demonstrates that you have no felonies, domestic violence or mental deficiencies.

    Knowing that makes his life alot easier and safery already.
     
  3. hey_poolboy

    hey_poolboy Member

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    I'm no leo, but I'd like to think that I would at least be able to get a "feel" for the person I was pulling over, then make an assessment as to disarming them.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. creitzel

    creitzel Member

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    I am not a LEO, but I've been pulled over a few times now, in the 6 or so years that I've had my cpl. I've never once been disarmed, on any of those stops. I've never once had the officer so much as bat an eye when I told him I was armed. In fact, they seem to treat me better since I've gotten my cpl, and I've even had a couple cut me some slack, and not write me up for speeding, when I was clearly guilty. That never happened before getting my cpl lol.

    Here in Michigan, the fact that you have a cpl is in the LEIN system, when they run your plate, so they know you have a cpl before they even approach your car. They also know what you had to go through to get that cpl, and that you're most likely a good guy. :)
     
  5. Torian

    Torian Member

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    Why would he disarm you? You are lawfully carrying, and you presented no indicators of risk based on your post.

    The large majority of LEOs I've dealt with are professionals, and pretty much reciprocate the same attitude you give them. Treat them with courtesy and respect, and you'll get the same in return.
     
  6. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    All true. He knew you were permitted when he ran your tag. And, the fact that you were upfront and disclosed right away, he had no reason to fear you. Just a pro doing his job. As a cop told me once, the ones who tell you aren't the ones who shoot at you.
     
  7. erikk8829

    erikk8829 Member

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  8. Upstater

    Upstater Member

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    ^^^^The ones that do shoot, chances are the ones that don't have legal right to have a weapon in the first place.
     
  9. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Good LEO.
     
  10. bikemobile

    bikemobile Member

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    Leo here...

    Poolboy is mostly right, you definately get a feel for the people in the car. Body language, tone, general demeanor all are clues of someones intentions. Nervous people do not hide it very well, violent felons generally dont act like normal people.

    I dont usually disarm permit carrying citizens. I compliment them on full use of their constitutional rights.

    If i get any sketchy vibe at all i will disarm them but the bad guys i find with guns tend to hide them in their pants, socks, jackets in wierd ways. They dont buy custom kydex IWB holsters for their 1911's. they shove their pawn shop s&w sd9 in their calvin kleins.

    Play a little game with yourself on the highway. Look at a car and ask yourself, "If that person crashed into me do you think they would stop and provide insurance info? Or would they take off because they probably dont have a license or insurance?" What is your immediate thought. Judge the book by its cover. Call it whatever you want its what we do. Its what you all do too. It is survival. How does that person react to sharing a lane with a cop car? Criminals are criminals because they got caught.

    We play the same mental games as cops. You have to or else the bad guys would always surprise you with their shenanigans and you would order every soccer mom out of their van at gunpoint for weaving while talking on their cell phone. We have to make snap judgements and rely on our instincts.

    "You have to pull over the good to find the bad."
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  11. rookorami

    rookorami Member

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    Johnny what is it about what poolboy and bikemobile said that you do not like? The fact that they if they felt necessary they would temporarily disarm someone with a permit for the period of the traffic stop? If they did it to everyone that they stopped then sure I would take issue. I see nothing wrong with making a judgement call. It is only for the period of the stop. Suspicious activity is something that you have to look for. The most dangerous part of an Officers job is the traffic stop.
     
  12. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Well, here goes my story...

    I was pulled over while I was going through Houston on my way home from school. I was under 21, but I can still legally carry concealed in my vehicle without a CHL. I was carrying my M&P at the time and this was the first time that I was ever pulled over... Needless to say, I was a little scared. In Texas, if you have a CHL there is a duty to inform, but there is no longer a penalty for not doing so. Even though I did not have a CHL, and therefore had no duty to inform, I did inform the officer (a state trooper) that I was armed; and here is why.

    I was pulled over at night, around 8:30PM. The officer approached me very cautiously, with his flashlight in his weak hand, and it looked like he had his right hand on his sidearm. I had my window rolled down, with both hands on the wheel. The officer told me that I was pulled over because my vehicle matched the description as one that was reported stolen just half an hour before. The officer asked for my license, proof of insurance, and my registration if I had it; but also asked if there were any weapons in the vehicle before I went digging through compartments. I told him that I had my pistol on my right hip, and that my wallet with my driver's license was in my back right pocket. At that point, I was expecting him to ask me to exit the vehicle and to scold me for not informing him at the beginning of our conversation; instead, he simply asked me to unbuckle my seat belt and turn towards him so that he would be able to see that I was reaching for my wallet instead of my firearm.

    Anyways, that all went without a hitch, and the officer was actually much more relaxed (at least it seemed like he was) after we got it squared away that I was armed and that I was just wanting to prove that I was actually in my own vehicle. After running my license and registration, the officer gave me back my stuff, and with a tip of his hat sent me on my way.... A stressful trip home, but it went much better than it could have.
     
  13. smalls

    smalls Member

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    This x 10000000. Not 100% of the time, but I'm sure it's a rarity that criminals but holsters for guns, or carry nice ones they bought legally or care for them much.

    Neither I, or anyone I know have been disarmed by any MI LEO, and for the most part I haven't heard many negative stories about interactions with them while armed. I think in my area we have a lot of officers that are "gun guys", too, which is nice.
     
  14. bikemobile

    bikemobile Member

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    Dollar, Thankfully what? Please explain. Im curious.
     
  15. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    I believe he is saying that he does not believe any police officer should ever remove a firearm from a detained person during a traffic stop.

    I think that there is a time and place for it, bikemobile, and I don't believe any situation is ever the same as a previous one so you can't set exact guidelines for when it is necessary to disarm a person.

    However, I feel that there are some police officers who abuse their "right" to disarm citizens.
     
  16. bikemobile

    bikemobile Member

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    That makes sense to me. And yes every stop is a new stop.
     
  17. rookorami

    rookorami Member

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    allaroundhunter-I agree with your statement unfortunately some will abuse.
     
  18. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    And I believe he is saying that the does not believe a disclosed CHL holder should be disarmed without probable cause, and legal possession and/or legal concealment does not constitute probable cause.

    That said, there are other things that might occur prior to or during a traffic stop that might constitute probable cause and thus warrant disarming.
     
  19. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    I just went back and reread that earlier post, and I believe that you, sir, are correct. And I do agree on both points.
     
  20. Reefinmike

    Reefinmike Member

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    I recently got my ccw this past june. havent had any LEO contact in almost 5 years but all the sudden bam- three within 6 months.

    One day I was heading back from the range, driving on a pretty curvey country road, 55mph, blind turns and deer to boot. all the sudden this woman in a mercedes is tailing me hard. I sped up to 60 but that was the most Id go on that road. woman was still on my bumper for a mile so I dropped the speed down to a leisurely 40mph the next 4 miles. She follows me all the way to my street and right as I was about home, an officer pulled inbetween me and her. she turns off and he gets me as i pull in my drive. hands on the wheel, keys on the dash I reach my head out the window
    Me- Officer, I have my ccw and I AM armed(to the teeth lol)
    officer- Where you coming from
    me-Just coming back from the range
    O-we had a call about an impared driver, have you been taking any pills, any dope, any booze?
    Me- yeah, the lady behind me must have called, she was on my bumper even when i was going 5 over on xxxxx curvey country road

    This was just a month or two after getting my ccw so I was a good bit nervous, mixing up words and whatnot. Hey, its the first time ive been pulled over with two loaded guns on me and 4 unloaded guns in the range bag next to me as well as a boatload of ammo. officer went and ran my permit and license
    O- Are you sure you arent on dope, booze etc etc
    Me- of course, its 3pm and im driving back from the shooting range
    O- whats in that Mountain Dew bottle in the center cup holder?
    Me- Mountain Dew officer, would you like some :)
    O- can I smell it
    Me- sure
    He smells the delicious redneck elixir and sends me off to park in my garage

    Second pull over just a couple months ago, a friend moved into a new house and was having a bit of a get together. I knew he'd offer me a beer so I left the gun in the safe. I stay for a couple hours and have 4 beers. I normally never drive after more than a couple, but I know my limits, expecially on weak bud light :) . With my luck, what do ya know- two minutes after leaving his driveway I have red and blue lights behind me. This is about 1am so im expecting the worst. Officer comes up as i have my hands on the wheel and explains I have a headlight out and no registration sticker for the year. He asks for my ID and I ask If I can reach for it. He then asks If I have a gun on me and I explain No, not tonight but I do have my permit to carry. He said he asked because its only the people that carry that ask permission to go reaching for things during a stop. He takes a good 15 minutes to come back, hands me a warning in case im pulled over again on the way home and tells me my registration is current(I just forgot to put the darn sticker on). As I hop on the highway three minutes down the road- blam--- lights again. Its officer vance again, he forgot to return my ID. funny thing is his last name was vance and he pulled me over on vance road.

    Final one- I had just finished cleaning someones aquarium(my small business, hence the name reefinmike- reef aquariums, not the reefer :) ) about 11am, I realized that I had locked my keys and phone in my truck. My friend I entrusted with my spare keys had recently changed his number. I called the police to come pop my door open and when the officer arrived, I attempted to hand him my ccw and ID and told him I was a permit holder and armed. He just grumpily mumbled I dont need to see that, and then he begrudgingly got out of his car and popped the door open for me. I was as helpful and appreciative as I could be, but the guy was just a grump. plus It was kind of alarming that he didnt even care if an armed person was milling around him for 10 minutes without even running my plates, Id or even looking at my ccw permit. heck, I could have told him I owned the escalade next to me and I needed assistance hotwiring it because the two AK's I was cc'ing behind my back wouldnt allow me to bend down below the steering column :neener:
     
  21. Reefinmike

    Reefinmike Member

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    ^^^sorry, I didnt realize that was a book :rolleyes:... got carried away. long story short- mostly positive encounters and never disarmed.
     
  22. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    Up here in Alaska, there is a duty to inform and the law explicitly states that a LEO may take possession of the weapon for the duration of the contact. It rarely happens for the reasons already outlined -- work in LE involves getting a pretty good nose for normal versus questionable people and situations, and the folks you tend to have to worry about are not the ones who comply with the duty to inform law.
     
  23. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    My state is a non-disclose state. I generally do because it seemed to let the officer know that I was a legit kinda person.

    Last time I did was to a rookie private in the State Police Dept. He asked that I put it on the dash because I had to go into the console of my vehicle, where my gun was at the time. He reached into my car while I was looking for my insurance card, took my revolver out of the car without consent to search (I was legal to have a firearm. there should have been zero suspesion), falsely called my gun in (meaning he never keyed the mic on his radio. he just murmured some words like he was talking to someone), while strafing me several times with a loaded weapon. I asked if he would please not do that, and he threw my gun in the window, it bounced off the dash and into the floor board. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

    I will never disclose again in my state. I will just keep my mouth shut. Answer questions that are non-incriminating, and be on my way.
    This was the first horrible experience while being armed. Of course I don't plan on being stopped ever again.
     
  24. bigwheel

    bigwheel Member.

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    I am an old fairly recently retired po po. Never bothered me in the least for good citizens to have guns..think they should have two in fact. Seems quite a few of the newer cop crop do not share those sentiments. Getting pulled over by scared rookies makes me real nervous. I would not make suggestions or volunteer information. If its required to hand the card over or tell them you are packing I would sure do that part. At night when getting stopped turn on the interior lights..roll the driver side window down and dont make any sudden movements. Also do not let your passengers get out and dont get out yourself unless so instructed. That makes all cops highly nervous. Best of fortunes.
     
  25. Torian

    Torian Member

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    Taking possession of the weapon? I cringe at the thought of handing someone a loaded firearm without locking and clearing the action.

    I suspect you wouldn't get extra points from that LEO for doing that?
     
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