Griz Attacks Girl Biker

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I agree they balance people and make them more inclined to freedom, which is why I defended them in my earlier post.

Large predators, especialy those that are relatively predictable and can be dealt with using common sense cause people to be less inclined to focus on petty issues. A tame world becomes a restrictive world relatively quickly. When people are more concerned with minor things other people are doing rather than staying safe from the elements and the wildlife they create mountains of restrictive legislation.

California was one of the most free states in the nation for a lot of its history.
I imagine if we still had large grizzlies and similar predators it would be more firearm friendly for example.

The really petty population develops much faster when things are too tame.

p.s. Many of the natives were rather aggressive themselves. I would have been too considering what had happened to those on the East Coast by that time, The treaties not honored and the atrocities commited. Yet history is often misrepresented.
In many instances the natives themselves were the agressors, they despised the foriegners coming in, displacing them and living a lifestyle that could not coexist with thiers. You cannot clear all the land, plant farms in mass and raise livestock and still have a good size hunter gatherer population exist.
The ways of the natives were also pretty savage to the people. They usualy did many things to the bodies of thier victims that added insult to injury. Genital mutilation of thier enemies' bodies for example was a common sign used for disrespect, but made them seem even more barbaric to the settlers.
When a farm was raided the men were usualy killed early in the mornign when they went out to tend the farm. The women were sometimes killed and sometimes captured. Babies usualy were swung by thier feet and thier heads popped on a near hard surface. Livestock was killed and the place was set on fire (often resulting in a lot of feathers rising and falling since they were used as filling.) Then the bodies of the victims had things done to them as a message.

When neighbors would arrive usualy after seeing the fire that is the type of scene they would come across. That is not lone instances, but a rather common occurance throughout the frontier.

In all wars in American history, the "Indian Wars" had the highest support from the population of the United States, even higher than the support during world war 2. Not a single war before or since had the same level of support throughout its duration.

We properly recognize the wrongs commited against them as we are the victors now, and they have become a defeated minority. That was not the way it was seen at the time though when farms and settlements were being attacked and slaughtered by raiding parties on a regular basis.
 
People kill more people then anything else, I say we need to exterminate these vermin :banghead:

If anything all the native animals need to be brought back to where they were prior to human invasion.

People who hate wildlife are equivalent to people hating guns. Ignorant and stupid :fire:.
 
Scary stuff. I spent the night in a tent in Chugach State Park a couple days prior to this. Part of me was hoping to see a grizzly, but part of me was hoping I wouldn't. After reading that story, I'm kind of glad I didn't.

Thankfully the girl survived the attack. I'm assuming since the bear didn't eat her it must have attacked her because it felt she was a threat.
 
If you were in the Chugach they probably saw you. They hide really effectively and know the ways of men better than bear in more remote areas. Black bears, too. I've near stumbled over the small ones while hiking. That will wake you up! The only brown ones I like to see are at a distance, running AWAY from me. If I see too much long claw sign I leave, it's as simple as that.

wonder how it would have been for the first explorers who wandered through this country with bears falling out of trees at every turn.

There's a recent book on this called Lewis & Clark Among the Grizzly. They left one of the few reliable records of the fauna of the west during the early 19th century. Interestingly, the describe the bear following the great bison herds like lions following herds in Africa. The bear were extremely aggressive with the party, and may have been a vanished subspecies that existed on the plains until the herds were destroyed. The Corps records very few bear signs and no encounters in the mountains, which has led some to conclude the bear were pushed there by agriculture. It's a fascinating account.
 
Hit "submit reply" before thinking...

...and wonder why we don't just exterminate these vermin.

I think this may be a case of posting before thinking.

Hope the girl recovers. If it happened in California she would probalby sue the organizers. Mix bears and people and occasionally a bear gets fired up and attacks. It happens in Glacier Park.

Still Grizzlies are way down my list of species to exterminate...
 
Good thing "Teddy" T.R. came along when he did or we would have no bears wolves buff or many of the other things we still see at locations that have been set a side for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

:)

The ones who thought up this bicycle ride will not do it again at that time I would think, but dealing with humans now for over 65 years I am not so sure this lesson will take hold.
 
I suspect the race will go on like normal next year, accept they'll have a few men around prepared/ready to make a rescue.

Happily, people in Alaska are for the most part accommodating to the natural world and accept that wild animals are a slightly dangerous part of the landscape (exposure is a much more likely cause of death).

We don't have a tendency to ban things when don't work out perfectly. People sometimes have untimely deaths in Alaska and that's just the way it is.

/you also have to deal with harsh ammo prices, brick of .22 bullets at $26.75
 
I guess you could call a racer getting mauled by a grizzly as being on of those things that "don't work out perfectly."

It is a shame they didn't have a few people around with proper gear to provide help this year. Of course, this isn't just for bears, but for any sort of emergency, such as more common types of problems such as simple crashes.

If anything all the native animals need to be brought back to where they were prior to human invasion.

Yeah, we need more mammoths, mastadons, sabertooths, giant ground sloths, dire wolves, cave bears, stag moose, etc.
 
There's more information today:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/wildlife/bears/attacks/story/451700.html

It sounds like there were several minor screwups in the response. They went down the wrong trails then had to wait for an armed police escort, which seems a bit absurd to me since fellow bikers had already taken the poor girl out of the attack zone. Probably room for blame all around. The organizers should have been able to show the responders where the route was and someone should have had a four wheeler available for emergencies. It also appears none of the racers were armed.

Still, that's not unusual and the response time, all things considered, was not too bad. We have fairly limited resources even in Anchorage when you get beyond the main grid. You take your chances. I just hope she's not too badly hurt. Sounds like the bear grabbed her face and was doing the usual rag doll toss. Our local surgeons are about the best in the world for dealing with that kind of trauma and the infection risks.
 
A different viewpoint

The very essence of this is not man v. bear, but how much entitlement/responsibility does man have? I wish the bear victim well, but we brought this on ourselves.

I can organize a bike ride where there are known dangers, (the night race didn't have to be here), but I'm entitled to scare myself to death (with the added danger element), even if it means "public resources" may have to be used if I screw up (yes, as the most intelligent species around, I have to take command responsibility). Similarly, I can build my home on flood plain/mudslideville/under a volcano because I'm entitled and will expect "public resources" to come rescue me when the inevitable happens. Raise safety/home/medical/auto insurance for everyone else, why don't I? Use up state and local funds with my emergency, why don't I? Sucks to be you in your emergency, doesn't it? And if you think I'm selfish and irresponsible, let me give you my one-finger salute.

More responsible/less entitled thinking individuals will make incidents like this will be less frequent. I'm from a county that does not have much "public resources", and we frequently hear about how public services are cut back because funds have been used up by frivolous emergencies. Man v. bear/wildlife/nature will always be a circular argument. But when the money runs out, it's all over.
 
I don't think the bikers or the victim are giving anybody the one finger salute. There could have been better planning and I'm sure this will drive home some safety issues for the mountain bikers. But I don't think any funding will have to be cut back because some officers and EMT's called called out to the park. That's their job.
 
The issue is whether the race could have been better organized and supported, and the confusion over what trail she was on. But yeah in the end you take your chances.
 
The same could be said for some humans

I read stories like this - and other's when the hikers are armed and wonder why we don't just exterminate these vermin. They have no place on this planet anymore and reading incidents like this against humans makes my blood boil.
:rolleyes:

I think the bear probably thinks the same about humans that post garbage like the above. It is after all humans that are taking away the bears habitat, not the other way around. :scrutiny:

Humans that think exterminating any non-human species is a good idea makes my blood boil. :cuss: I think this was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time on both parts. A tragic event occurred. Hopefully the girl will recover. I'd be willing to bet she does not want to exterminate the entire Grizzly species. :what:

Molon Labe,
Joe
:fire:
 
on the news about a week ago they estimated something around 7 billion people on earth now. We take up for almost all living creatures on earth. With that many people living today. i am glad i wont be around say in the year 2100. There is just too many people living today. then humans live longer today then they did say 200 years ago. So ya im for the bear. Now if one is coming after me i will get a round off on them. maybe even a few rounds. But im not going to be bear food. Its just sad. You look at history look at the past 2000 or so years. We as humans had wars, we did not know about medicine like we do today. People were killed by the thousands in wars. sicknesses killed people in swarms. Yet doing so controlled the population in a way. Sad part is if and when we do get into wars, today we have to much technology where we can kill millions of living creatures not just humans. As humans we do everything we can to control the pet population, the rodent population, heck i even heard of a birth contorl they are supposed to try and use on birds in central park in new york. But nobody mentions the 7billion people living. What happens when these 7 billion people want to have 2 kids each. then they want 2 kids each. Yep im glad im not going to be around a hundred years from now. As far as the Bear. They have the right not me. I will stay out of there area.
 
"why we don't just exterminate these vermin. They have no place on this planet anymore"
NewDalek1.jpg
 
Is there any benefit in coexisting with them? I believe there is.
Care to elaborate?
Well, large predators have their own unique place in a wilderness ecosystem: top of the food chain. I don't want to imagine a world with no wilderness left. I hope we never get to that.

Also, they are part of the living history of our world. It think it's important for humans as a species to realize where we have come from and how far we have come, both for better and for worse.

These animals are like the canary in the coal mine, in my opinion. If it ever gets to the point where large predators cannot survive in the world, I believe we will be in trouble too.
 
I hope the girl recovers fully. I hope the bear is caught and "put down". I believe we need to make a place for bears to live, but when a bear attacks a human, usually, the best thing to do is "put it down", since it has a taste for human blood, at that point.

One thing that might have helped, and I don't know if they were present in the situation, would be "bear bells". I lived for several years in Grizzly country (Montana), and a lot of folks would use "bear bells" in the heavily populated Grizzly areas.
 
One bear attacks one girl and fortunately doesn't even kill her and we have a call to exterminate and entire species of what 20,000+ animals ?

Now compare this attack to all of the violent home invasions , violent rapes/kidnappings robberies , Murders etc . and we only execute what a dozen or fewer humans a year and that is only when they've committed the worst possible crime murder .

At least we know the bear attack wasn't a "thrill crime" when we know that happens thousands of times each year with people , or shall we say "two legged animals" .

Bears and wolves don't commit gang rapes or senseless murders as a gang initiation .
 
I hope the bear is caught and "put down". I believe we need to make a place for bears to live, but when a bear attacks a human, usually, the best thing to do is "put it down", since it has a taste for human blood, at that point.

Nobody is going to track the bear down. The bear did not eat her, just mauled her. Besides there are way too many bears to figure out which sow did this. It would just be shooting random bears in hopes they were the guilty one.
 
The Shootist said:
I read stories like this - and other's when the hikers are armed and wonder why we don't just exterminate these vermin. They have no place on this planet anymore and reading incidents like this against humans makes my blood boil.

It is elitist views like this that have led to the extinction of far too many species on this planet. Views like this explain why the big bears no longer have a significant range in the lower 48 states, and why we don't see the Bison roaming as our ancestors did. It explains why wolves have disappeared, leading to an unnatural (and environmentally damaging) number of elk in parts of my state.

Every species has it's place, and I'm sorry, but your view is also a tragedy on this issue.

Why are we to be considered so much better? Shall we have no respect for our planet, or the natural World? Heck, lets just plow down the forests, kill all of the so-called "dangerous" animals, and pave the baren landscape that remains afterwards!

While we are at it, we can outlaw guns, 'cause they are dangerous too...

People need to learn to live in harmony with nature, rather than attempting to conquer it. The bear was where he/she belonged, and the biker was participating in a rather foolish activity in that environment (riding a bike at night).

All too often I hear conversations about what gun is the best to bring for bears (I've even been a part of these discusions myself). But, a bigger problem concerns the fact that many folks ignore some of the more obvious things that they can do to avoid a negative encounter with these animals in the first place (like eating, cooking, and camping habits, and means/method of travel). I've seen a number of bears in my day, and they are magnificent animals... They can certainly be dangerous if you are careless (or even grossly unlucky), but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their piece of this spinning rock we call Earth.

If you want to avoid bears so badly, perhaps you shouldn't visit the wilderness!
 
I believe we need to make a place for bears to live
Where would you suggest....a petting zoo?
The bear in question already HAS a place to live. The bear didn't wander into the suburbs, the suburbs came to the bear.
In a case of home invasion, what would you do?
Jack
 
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