Tell him to buy a can of bear spray and keep it close. I know this probably isn't the answer you wanted...hell it's not even what you asked, and it's not nearly as much fun as buying a new gun. But when I'm hunting in griz country, I'll take bear spray over a handgun as my last line of defense against a charging griz any day.
Grizzly Bear Sidearm Question
- Thread starter Ioweegian
- Start date
- Status
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I never said to trust your life to Bear spray alone and in my first 2 posts answered the question asked. The spray recommendation was in addition to all the other tools used to protect yourself, not the only tool.
I'm still guessing those who are dismissing the spray as a tool haven't seen the video on the site. It's a video of a charging Bear. I would love for those who are telling everyone to carry a 500 Magnum to stand in front of the computer with that monster of a revolver on their side. Click the video to start and see if you can draw a 500 Magnum and raise it into the shooting position before the Bear hits the camera. I'm betting you don't get the revolver horizontal let alone squeeze the trigger before the Bear gets you. I'm talking about the video on This page, not the full length video linked on the first page.
Many tools give you many options. All situations are different and require the proper tool to solve the problem. In the case of the video the spray would have been fast enough to save your life. In other situations a different tool could solve the problem best. WHY WOULD YOU WANT ONLY ONE TOOL IN YOUR TOOLBOX?? (especially when it's your life on the line)
Have fun because I'm done with this thread...
Harley Quinn
Member
AACD,
I agree with you even if you are going to go away. The tools in the toolbox is a good way to put it.
The new sprays that are out there seem like a good way to go.
I have even given the hair spray and a lighter some consideration
Flame from hornet spray is awesome also
been there done it 
As long as you don't blow out the lighter
Not on bears though. Cooked eyes and face would be pretty much a stopper.
HQ
I agree with you even if you are going to go away. The tools in the toolbox is a good way to put it.
The new sprays that are out there seem like a good way to go.
I have even given the hair spray and a lighter some consideration
Flame from hornet spray is awesome also
been there done it As long as you don't blow out the lighter
Not on bears though.
Cooked eyes and face would be pretty much a stopper.HQ
Thank you for so many good replies. Great ideas. Very interesting thinking about the options.
I just want to reiterate, my son would NOT be hunting Grizzly bear with the sidearm.
My son also would NOT use the sidearm as his primary bear defense weapon.
The long arm would be for his primary defense, but there are situations where the long arm is impractical. The most obvious being when it is not in your hand ready to go. I can think of lots of these situations.
Cleaning a Moose, and having a skinning knife in one hand and part of the Moose entrails in the other hand. Your long arm is off to the side; your hands are wet with Moose blood. All of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere. Someone from Cooper Firearms told me of this exact story occurring in Montana except the guy was cleaning an Elk (not a Moose). He didn’t survive the Grizzly attack.
As one post said, he was grouse hunting in Montana. Well you can’t hold a .375 H&H in one arm and shoulder a 20 gauge over and under with #6 birdshot for grouse in the other. While grouse hunting, all of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere.
If you are setting up a tent or going to the bathroom you are separated between you and your long arm. Again all of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere.
You are following a moose blood trail through thick alders and you couldn’t wheel a long gun around quickly if you had to (they’d bump into too many trees). You hear a deep guttural “wuuf” from about 20 yards behind you. All of a sudden sticks are cracking underfoot of this “wuuf” and he is rushing at you like a freight train on a mission.
These attacks are incredibly fast and come seemingly out of nowhere (see this!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw). This guy had the proverbial warning siren by first seeing cubs, but a lot of these guys that have been in bear attacks never get such a forewarning.
As I said in an earlier post, according to documentation by Larry Kaniut, a lot of these attack victims get NO SHOTS off with anything!
paul105, thanks for this link http://www.go2gbo.com/forums//index.php/topic,89450.0.html . Assuming the guy posting this is being honest (and I have no reason to think he is not being honest) these may be most informative 2 posts I’ve ever seen on this subject. Certainly the most experienced I have read on a net post with dangerous bears in the field. Thanks again.
I am leaning to the .454 Casull in a Ruger Super Redhawk. 6 shots, plenty of power, very versatile, ammo available anywhere in Alaska I would think. In Black Bear country (a separate issue I guess) I am leaning toward the 10mm - lots of shots and pretty good power. Add a compensated barrel and follow up shots are relatively quick too.
Another thing (and I’ll probably begin a different thread on this) is the primary long arm. Which shotgun? A pump (870) or a semi auto (Benelli SBE II) is what I would likely recommend but again I will begin a different thread for that discussion (I don’t want to hijack the thread) in a few days I think.
I just want to reiterate, my son would NOT be hunting Grizzly bear with the sidearm.
My son also would NOT use the sidearm as his primary bear defense weapon.
The long arm would be for his primary defense, but there are situations where the long arm is impractical. The most obvious being when it is not in your hand ready to go. I can think of lots of these situations.
Cleaning a Moose, and having a skinning knife in one hand and part of the Moose entrails in the other hand. Your long arm is off to the side; your hands are wet with Moose blood. All of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere. Someone from Cooper Firearms told me of this exact story occurring in Montana except the guy was cleaning an Elk (not a Moose). He didn’t survive the Grizzly attack.
As one post said, he was grouse hunting in Montana. Well you can’t hold a .375 H&H in one arm and shoulder a 20 gauge over and under with #6 birdshot for grouse in the other. While grouse hunting, all of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere.
If you are setting up a tent or going to the bathroom you are separated between you and your long arm. Again all of a sudden a bear rushes seemingly out of nowhere.
You are following a moose blood trail through thick alders and you couldn’t wheel a long gun around quickly if you had to (they’d bump into too many trees). You hear a deep guttural “wuuf” from about 20 yards behind you. All of a sudden sticks are cracking underfoot of this “wuuf” and he is rushing at you like a freight train on a mission.
These attacks are incredibly fast and come seemingly out of nowhere (see this!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw). This guy had the proverbial warning siren by first seeing cubs, but a lot of these guys that have been in bear attacks never get such a forewarning.
As I said in an earlier post, according to documentation by Larry Kaniut, a lot of these attack victims get NO SHOTS off with anything!
paul105, thanks for this link http://www.go2gbo.com/forums//index.php/topic,89450.0.html . Assuming the guy posting this is being honest (and I have no reason to think he is not being honest) these may be most informative 2 posts I’ve ever seen on this subject. Certainly the most experienced I have read on a net post with dangerous bears in the field. Thanks again.
I am leaning to the .454 Casull in a Ruger Super Redhawk. 6 shots, plenty of power, very versatile, ammo available anywhere in Alaska I would think. In Black Bear country (a separate issue I guess) I am leaning toward the 10mm - lots of shots and pretty good power. Add a compensated barrel and follow up shots are relatively quick too.
Another thing (and I’ll probably begin a different thread on this) is the primary long arm. Which shotgun? A pump (870) or a semi auto (Benelli SBE II) is what I would likely recommend but again I will begin a different thread for that discussion (I don’t want to hijack the thread) in a few days I think.
I have no experience with bears and never will. But if for some reason I had to go into bear country armed with a handgun, I would probably take my .45 Colt Blackhawk, loaded a little bit hot with RNFP bullets. That load will penetrate.
Penetration is the only thing that will do you any good in an encounter with a bear. You've got to hit something vital in the nervous system to incapacitate the beast while you run for it.
If I could find a similar non-expanding, high-penetrating bullet for the .44, that would work, too. You don't need a lot of velocity to get a lot of penetration--1000-1200 fps would be plenty, in fact, more velocity might be detrimental.
You have to consider that a lot of people spent a lot of time in bear country before any of these big hand cannons were invented. Without undue loss of life.
If, on the other hand, one is looking for a justification to buy such a revolver, this is as good as any but I don't think they'd be one bit more effective than a stout .45 Colt or .44 Mag.
Penetration is the only thing that will do you any good in an encounter with a bear. You've got to hit something vital in the nervous system to incapacitate the beast while you run for it.
If I could find a similar non-expanding, high-penetrating bullet for the .44, that would work, too. You don't need a lot of velocity to get a lot of penetration--1000-1200 fps would be plenty, in fact, more velocity might be detrimental.
You have to consider that a lot of people spent a lot of time in bear country before any of these big hand cannons were invented. Without undue loss of life.
If, on the other hand, one is looking for a justification to buy such a revolver, this is as good as any but I don't think they'd be one bit more effective than a stout .45 Colt or .44 Mag.
mewachee
Member
I remember listening to a historian tell an account of the first time Lewis and Clark encountered a Grizzly. They too, like most from the east under estimated the grizzly. The Indians told them of this fearless and aggressive bear. Those in the Lewis and Clark camp thought the native inhabitants didn't know what they were talking about: Besides, they only use bows and arrows.
I don't remember how many shots that bear took, but I remember this guy saying that Lewis and Clark found eight balls in the heart.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/brown-bear3.jpg
I don't remember how many shots that bear took, but I remember this guy saying that Lewis and Clark found eight balls in the heart.
http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/brown-bear3.jpg
The Lone Haranguer
Member
It must be really dangerous out there if the grizzly bears need to carry sidearms!
BroughtEnoughGun
Member
I have a 454 Alaskan for a backup to Black Bear and Boar Hunting...I also have a Smith 500 8 3/8" and after seeing what both do to all sorts of different barriers and such, I recommend the 4" 500 Smith with that being my #1 choice for Grizzlies in AK as a "hip gun".
CraigJS
Member
You've talked about the rest, now look at the best!!
This thing is unreal!!!!
http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html
This thing is unreal!!!!
http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html
kolob10
Member
Grizzley experience
I have had only one close call with a Grizzley in the bush. It was 1973 south of Yellowstone. I was hunting mule deer in the high country armed with a 270 Winchester and a Superblackhawk 44 mag. I was sitting against a huge rock glassing the tree line below me. To my back about 75 yards distant was a sheer drop below to a rockslide about 200-300 feet down. The nearest tree was to my front about 200 yards. I heard a noise and looked up from the binoculars to see a Grizzley walking along parallel to me with his nose low to the ground. He came within 50 yards of me and suddenly stopped, licked his nose, and stood up slightly and looked in my direction. I knew Grizzleys had poor eysight from watching them in previous years. I weighed my options - pretty slim it seemed. He dropped to his feet and slipped off down the clearing and into the trees. I considered the 270 in my lap (Could get at least one shot off but would not stop him before he was on top of me). I
looked at the 44 at my side and relized that he would be on top of me before
I could fire more than one shot. If he came for me, my option was I would fire one shot from the 270 - maybe I would slow him down enough to get away or get lucky. Later I realized that the 44 might have put me out of my misery if he didn't kill me in the attack. I was about 3 miles from camp at the time. I once read a story about a lucky guy up north that stopped a mauling by firing a 357 in a sows mouth. She was chewing on his head later and he felt no pain - later realized that he had broken her jaw with the shot. I do believe he got beat around some. He did survive the attack.
If I even venture into Grizzley country again for a stroll, I will have my lever action 45/70 and my 454 Casull for backup. I'm not macho - I just respect Grizzleys.
I have had only one close call with a Grizzley in the bush. It was 1973 south of Yellowstone. I was hunting mule deer in the high country armed with a 270 Winchester and a Superblackhawk 44 mag. I was sitting against a huge rock glassing the tree line below me. To my back about 75 yards distant was a sheer drop below to a rockslide about 200-300 feet down. The nearest tree was to my front about 200 yards. I heard a noise and looked up from the binoculars to see a Grizzley walking along parallel to me with his nose low to the ground. He came within 50 yards of me and suddenly stopped, licked his nose, and stood up slightly and looked in my direction. I knew Grizzleys had poor eysight from watching them in previous years. I weighed my options - pretty slim it seemed. He dropped to his feet and slipped off down the clearing and into the trees. I considered the 270 in my lap (Could get at least one shot off but would not stop him before he was on top of me). I
looked at the 44 at my side and relized that he would be on top of me before
I could fire more than one shot. If he came for me, my option was I would fire one shot from the 270 - maybe I would slow him down enough to get away or get lucky. Later I realized that the 44 might have put me out of my misery if he didn't kill me in the attack. I was about 3 miles from camp at the time. I once read a story about a lucky guy up north that stopped a mauling by firing a 357 in a sows mouth. She was chewing on his head later and he felt no pain - later realized that he had broken her jaw with the shot. I do believe he got beat around some. He did survive the attack.
If I even venture into Grizzley country again for a stroll, I will have my lever action 45/70 and my 454 Casull for backup. I'm not macho - I just respect Grizzleys.
steve8261948
Member
The .44 magnum has a pretty good reputation for Grizzlies in Alaska.
Harley Quinn
Member
Hugh Glass and Grizz:
Near the forks of the Grand River in present-day Perkins County, in August 1823, while scouting alone for game for the expedition's larder, Glass surprised a she-grizzly with two cubs. Before he could fire his rifle, the bear charged, picked him up, and threw him to the ground. Glass got up, grappled for his knife, and fought back, stabbing the animal repeatedly as the grizzly raked him time and again with her claws.
Glass managed to kill the bear with help from his trapping partners, Fitzgerald and Bridger, but was left badly mauled and unable to walk. When Glass lost consciousness, Henry became convinced the man would not survive his injuries.
Henry asked for two volunteers to stay with Glass until he died, and then bury him. Bridger (then 17 years old) and Fitzgerald stepped forward, and as the rest of the party moved on, began digging his grave. Later claiming that they were interrupted in the task by an attack by "Arikaree" Indians, the pair grabbed Glass's rifle, knife, and other equipment, and took flight.
Bridger and Fitzgerald reported to Henry -- wrongly it turned out -- that
Glass had died.
http://www.rosyinn.com/more005.html
Near the forks of the Grand River in present-day Perkins County, in August 1823, while scouting alone for game for the expedition's larder, Glass surprised a she-grizzly with two cubs. Before he could fire his rifle, the bear charged, picked him up, and threw him to the ground. Glass got up, grappled for his knife, and fought back, stabbing the animal repeatedly as the grizzly raked him time and again with her claws.
Glass managed to kill the bear with help from his trapping partners, Fitzgerald and Bridger, but was left badly mauled and unable to walk. When Glass lost consciousness, Henry became convinced the man would not survive his injuries.
Henry asked for two volunteers to stay with Glass until he died, and then bury him. Bridger (then 17 years old) and Fitzgerald stepped forward, and as the rest of the party moved on, began digging his grave. Later claiming that they were interrupted in the task by an attack by "Arikaree" Indians, the pair grabbed Glass's rifle, knife, and other equipment, and took flight.
Bridger and Fitzgerald reported to Henry -- wrongly it turned out -- that
Glass had died.
http://www.rosyinn.com/more005.html
Thunderbolt049
Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2009
- Messages
- 1
Been shopping for a Bear backup piece myself and here is what I have decided upon...
My wife and I are heading to Alaska for the first time ever this summer to visit and fish with our son up there for Salmon and Halibut. Was leaning heavily toward the Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull but now after doing more research on it and finding Randy Garretts site on the .44 and .45-70 I found and read the only charge incident I know of online that was successfully stopped with the .44 at close range and here is what it said: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews1.asp
"You've made a believer out of me. Last September I was hunting Alaskan grizzly with some natives when one of them wounded a male that took off in the brush. Four of us went in after him, the other 3 had rifles and due to the circumstances of the moment, I was armed with only a S&W 2.5" 44 Magnum loaded with your rounds. I was the fourth guy back, and you guessed it, he circled back around us and did a full charge from the rear at about 15-feet. I turned and shot, hitting him in the upper shoulder, blowing out his lungs and lodging just under the hide on the far side. It knocked him down, giving me enough time to empty my remaining rounds to keep him down. I know these loads were a real life saver!"
- Jeff Newville (Personal Letter)
There is also a link to a picture of the fairly small male griz (http://www.garrettcartridges.com/3.asp) that stalked and then charged from a distance of 15 feet. I also just ordered the 330 grain SuperHardCast Hammerheads from his site to take with me this summer to Alaska where my son is stationed to fish with the bears on the Kenai and Russian Rivers... My son tells me that almost everyone he fishes with up there carries .44's! It will only be used if our pepper spray serves as an appetizer instead of its intended purpose...
I also will be taking along a Ruger 4" RedHawk in .44 magnum in the holster that is now sold by Ruger on their website:
http://shopruger.com/webapp/wcs/sto...Id=-1&parent_category_rn=13682&lastCatId=null
My wife and I are heading to Alaska for the first time ever this summer to visit and fish with our son up there for Salmon and Halibut. Was leaning heavily toward the Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull but now after doing more research on it and finding Randy Garretts site on the .44 and .45-70 I found and read the only charge incident I know of online that was successfully stopped with the .44 at close range and here is what it said: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews1.asp
"You've made a believer out of me. Last September I was hunting Alaskan grizzly with some natives when one of them wounded a male that took off in the brush. Four of us went in after him, the other 3 had rifles and due to the circumstances of the moment, I was armed with only a S&W 2.5" 44 Magnum loaded with your rounds. I was the fourth guy back, and you guessed it, he circled back around us and did a full charge from the rear at about 15-feet. I turned and shot, hitting him in the upper shoulder, blowing out his lungs and lodging just under the hide on the far side. It knocked him down, giving me enough time to empty my remaining rounds to keep him down. I know these loads were a real life saver!"
- Jeff Newville (Personal Letter)
There is also a link to a picture of the fairly small male griz (http://www.garrettcartridges.com/3.asp) that stalked and then charged from a distance of 15 feet. I also just ordered the 330 grain SuperHardCast Hammerheads from his site to take with me this summer to Alaska where my son is stationed to fish with the bears on the Kenai and Russian Rivers... My son tells me that almost everyone he fishes with up there carries .44's! It will only be used if our pepper spray serves as an appetizer instead of its intended purpose...
I also will be taking along a Ruger 4" RedHawk in .44 magnum in the holster that is now sold by Ruger on their website:
http://shopruger.com/webapp/wcs/sto...Id=-1&parent_category_rn=13682&lastCatId=null
Last edited:
Shadow 7D
Member
I live in Alaska, and every year the Anchorage Daily News run at least one story about someone that the Wildlife Troopers (Alaska State troopers who enforce fish and game laws) through in jail and take all their hunting stuff for shooting a bear.
BTW if your hunting and a bear moves in on you kill, you have to leave it and let the bear get it, oh and it counts as your tag.
since he is out of state, he has to hunt with a guide, let the guide carry the bear gun and he can carry is rifle.
making sure he doesn't surprise a bear is what works, then don't be the slowest and you should make it out alive.
BTW if your hunting and a bear moves in on you kill, you have to leave it and let the bear get it, oh and it counts as your tag.
since he is out of state, he has to hunt with a guide, let the guide carry the bear gun and he can carry is rifle.
making sure he doesn't surprise a bear is what works, then don't be the slowest and you should make it out alive.
I lived for many years in AK's bear country; I've always been astounded at the level of incomprehension of the tourists when it comes to bears.
The lower-48 paradigm of hunting/fishing/hiking ALONE doesnt work; IMHO you should never engage in these activities without a partner that is on armed bear watch (of course you need to be polite and switch off duties).
If a giz shows up on the Kenai Highway you are probably in more danger from the tourists slamming on the brakes to take pictures
The lower-48 paradigm of hunting/fishing/hiking ALONE doesnt work; IMHO you should never engage in these activities without a partner that is on armed bear watch (of course you need to be polite and switch off duties).
If a giz shows up on the Kenai Highway you are probably in more danger from the tourists slamming on the brakes to take pictures
Ever read any accounts of hunters being charged by grizzlies? In one I read a professional hunter put 2 or 3 rounds of 375 H&H into the bear's chest to go along with the 3-4 rounds of 300 WM the hunter had poured into him and the bear still managed to close 70 of the 80 yards that separated him from the hunters before falling dead.
I do not believe any handgun would give me comfort against a truly big bear that was coming for me. I would want a reliable pump or auto shotgun with a short barrel loaded with 3" 00 Buck slung over my shoulder as I think that's the most powerful close range weapon available and I would still get weak in the knees at the thought of being charged by a grizzly.
I do not believe any handgun would give me comfort against a truly big bear that was coming for me. I would want a reliable pump or auto shotgun with a short barrel loaded with 3" 00 Buck slung over my shoulder as I think that's the most powerful close range weapon available and I would still get weak in the knees at the thought of being charged by a grizzly.
Shadow 7D
Member
Naw, what I hate more is a moose on the Glen in the summer. It kills me when there are 3 or 4 cars pulled over to take pics, and everybody else trying not to hit them or the moose.
Oh, moose kill more people a year than bear, so you probably could discuss the ins and outs of moose protection.
if you want to see a bear, or moose, go to the zoo.
Oh, moose kill more people a year than bear, so you probably could discuss the ins and outs of moose protection.
if you want to see a bear, or moose, go to the zoo.
Just my two cents...
Two of the 4 bears I've taken were with a .44 Rem Mag.
(The other two with rifles)
I've personally seen bear spray work on 4 different occasions, twice on Alaskan Grizzly that were interested in fishermen.
I carry a rifle or pistol when hunting, but when just hiking or fishing, I now carry bear spray instead of firearms.
Two of the 4 bears I've taken were with a .44 Rem Mag.
(The other two with rifles)
I've personally seen bear spray work on 4 different occasions, twice on Alaskan Grizzly that were interested in fishermen.
I carry a rifle or pistol when hunting, but when just hiking or fishing, I now carry bear spray instead of firearms.
Any of the choices offered would be fine, IMO. I carry a .44 Mag with 240gr JHP's as a backup when I bow and rifle hunt. We have bears (albeit not grizzlies where "I" hunt, yet), mountain lions, and wolves. While the .44 certainly isn't as powerful as the others mentioned (duh), follow up shots would be quicker. Ideally, shooting a charging griz once would be best, but that ain't always reality. Something that allowed quick(er) shots, yet still was adequate if I do my part, seems like a better choice. I would think a .44 with heavy, hard cast bullets would be fine. The bigger calibers even better if that's what you think is necessary. To each his own. Good luck and hope his hunt is as awesome as I've heard Alaskan hunts can be.
I know I'm splitting hairs here, but if it's charging, I'd use my rifle first. Seems if I had enough time time to grab a handgun and bring it to arms, I have enough time to raise my rifle and use it. I personally have always felt my handgun was to use if I absolutely had nothing else and it was basically,, ON me. In that case, the wrist busting, one handed grip and discharge, Armeggedon(?) cannon, might not be the best choice, IF you had to fire more than once. Again, I know I'm splitting hairs and you can look at it from either side of the fence. Just my .02
I know I'm splitting hairs here, but if it's charging, I'd use my rifle first. Seems if I had enough time time to grab a handgun and bring it to arms, I have enough time to raise my rifle and use it. I personally have always felt my handgun was to use if I absolutely had nothing else and it was basically,
, ON me. In that case, the wrist busting, one handed grip and discharge, Armeggedon(?) cannon, might not be the best choice, IF you had to fire more than once. Again, I know I'm splitting hairs and you can look at it from either side of the fence. Just my .02- Status
