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Gun Deaths Outpace Motor Vehicle Deaths in 10 States in 2009 New Analysis Shows

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Sky, May 25, 2012.

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  1. Sky

    Sky Member

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    http://www.vpc.org/press/1205gunsvscars.htm

    Interesting:
     
  2. T Bran

    T Bran Member

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    Probably because they havent started putting airbags in hollow points yet but give them time.
    All kidding aside it is hard to beleive as the number of cars on the road increases yearly here thus the accidents as well. Though this may not be true in other states.
    As the population increases in an ideal world the stats should remain the same but we dont live in an ideal world. Cars do get safer every year.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    All this proves to me is more gang bangers use guns then cars to kill people with.

    It's to the point I can't turn on KCTV5 news at 5:00 every evening without another unsolved drive-by murder or four in Kansas City MO.

    Whats even worse, even with 137 witnesses standing around or running away?
    Nobody saw nothing, or heard anything!!
    And won't talk to the cops if they did.

    And there are several worse gang banger cities then KC in the country.

    rc
     
  4. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Times are tough and lots of folks are taking that permanent self checkout line.

    Eliminate suicides and I'll bet the number drops off precipitously
     
  5. atomd

    atomd Member

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    oops...previous comment was not about this article. doh!
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  6. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    The quote from VPC "It is time to end firearms’ status as the last unregulated consumer product." shows their bias. They went hunting for statistics that supports their agenda and published what they could find supporting their position.

    The fact that automobiles are killing less is a good thing and implies that cars are getting better designed at what they do, transport people and things safely. The fact that more people die from gunshot also implies that guns (or more accurately, bullets) are also getting better designed at what they do.

    Whether the "right people" are getting run over or the "right people" are getting shot, and in the proper quantities is a question I do not trust agenda-driven researchers to advise on.

    In my opinion, VPC is trading in nonsense.

    I wonder how many of each source's deaths were attributable to justifiable homicide in defense of one's own or another's life and how the numbers would stack up if the "Self-Defense" automobile deaths were subtracted from the automobile deaths and the "Self-Defense" firearms deaths were subtracted from the firearms deaths?

    Lost Sheep
     
  7. JohnM

    JohnM Member

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    VPC's data is loaded. They work hand in hand with the Brady Committee, etc.
     
  8. Shimitup

    Shimitup Member

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    Isn't it interesting how the likes of VPC and Brady Campaign never elaborate on their research methodology. Pretty much makes it all senseless blathering.
     
  9. CSC_Saint

    CSC_Saint Member

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    But guns are evil, making innocent, impressionable people do things they would never do without a gun in their hands.
    Agreed with lost Sheep, always good that cars killing less, and it does sound like an agenda oriented report.
     
  10. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    Wow... I got nothin' to argue with in the form of hard numbers but more than 2 1/3 gun related deaths every (average) day in Arizona? News to me!

    Of course there is the inter-scum shooting gallery surrounding the importation/kidnapping of illegals and the drug trade so I'm sure most of us are not privy to the numbers used in the statistics presented. Now just back the heck off on this before the statement is used to veer the topic, I'm just saying that Arizona residents who care to know, are aware that there is a level of violence surrounding these activities which seems to be deliberately ignored till the numbers are allowed to serve on some level or other.

    I do know the VPC has been nothing but stand-up and unemotional in their presentation of "facts" in the past.:barf:

    I'd really love to see if the car deaths are the same as NTSB stats or those of or other bodies.

    You know what the man said about "... Lies, damned lies and statistics?
     
  11. JellyJar

    JellyJar Member

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    The VPC is dishonestly trying to convince people with biased, distorted and dishonest evidence that only bad things come from gun ownership.

    Fortunately, more and more people are seeing through their [ non-highroad language ] and are ignoring them!
     
  12. happygeek

    happygeek Member

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    'Gun deaths' includes everything from justifiable homicides to suicides to people who are shot by the cops. From what I've read suicides tend to make up about 55% of 'gun deaths' in any given year.
     
  13. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    Now, that's fascinating. I hadn't thought of suicides, self defense or Officer Involveds being part of the stats. Thanks.
     
  14. dogmush

    dogmush Member

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    FWIW, CDC reports 18,735 suicides by firearm in 2009. And while that's tragic, I don't think it reflects on, or could be changed very much by, firearms laws. That works out to 60% of the firearms deaths reported by VPC are self inflicted.
     
  15. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    If the total number of deaths by gunshot are included, that figure might be true. But it is deceptive in that it doesn't take the circumstances into account. Certainly, many deaths are the result of murder, negligence or suicide. But people shot righteously by LEOs and civilians are not taken into account. These ultimately, IMO, save more lives than they take.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  16. CountryUgly

    CountryUgly Member

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    No surprise Virginia is on the list. Really if the drive into D.C. doesn't kill you it's also a great gun free area to get mugged and shot. I'd of been shocked if Michigan wasn't on the list and I'll bet since the stats are so close the car and gun deaths are closely related in most cases. Same for Indiana. Let's say you stop at a 4-way in Detroit, East Chicago or Gary and someone tries to carjack you. You or BG gets shot then tossed in front of the car then bam you got a "2 fer" on the stat sheet. The rest can be explained very simply, they are low population states with only one major city which makes it far easier to skew the numbers in the favor of the antis.
     
  17. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Gee, I wonder if they factored in the national decrease in the annual miles driven due to the increase in the price of gas? I've seen lots of articles on the mileage drop.
     
  18. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Member

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    TTAG deconstructed this argument pretty well HERE.

    TL;DR: Once you adjust for suicides, gun deaths come in way behind motor vehicle deaths in the US.

    R
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    I stopped reading after this:
    The VPC is not known for truthful unbiased figures. And like others have pointed out, their numbers include ALL firearms related deaths. <Helen Lovejoy> Won't someone please think of the children!?<Helen Lovejoy>
     
  20. Pigoutultra

    Pigoutultra Member

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  21. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    This horse was beat to death at Volokh Conspiracy over a editorial about Michigan that cited VPC.

    I'll repeat the arguments I made there. Using the WISQARS statistics for 2009 Michigan (962 accidental motor vehicle deaths, 12 accidental gun deaths, 572 gun suicides, 495 gun homicides):

    The relevant product safety stats are the accidental deaths: 962 accidental motor vehicle deaths versus 12 accidental gun deaths. Consumer product safety regulation can have an impact on accidental deaths. Do those numbers represent a product safety problem with guns?

    Intentional deaths are the result of the lethal intentions of those who commit homicide or suicide with firearms. Look at it this way: would federal product safety regulation impact intentional deaths (suicides or homicides) with motor vehicles? Do airbags or seat belts prevent deliberate vehicular homicides?

    Criminologist Marvin Wolfgang (who personally hated guns) studied 588 homicides in depth and concluded that few homicides due to shooting would be avoided in the absence of the gun. Motive and opportunity determined the outcome more than the presence or absence of a given means. The same has been observed in suicides by restricting various means.

    ADDED: What I suspect VPC is shooting for is Consumer Product Safety laws that would say, for example, if a revolver or lever action rifle does not have manual safety switch or crossbolt, it will be condemned as "unsafe at any range" and ordered confiscated and destroyed in the name of safety.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  22. DavidMS

    DavidMS Member

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    Someone needed an F on that college paper.

    Can we title this one "Lying with Statistics"?

    I see a few problems.

    • Automotive deaths are calculated on a vehicles miles driven basis, not ownership.
    • Firearms deaths should be calculated based on per 100K guns in the US.
    • Guns are already regulated by SAMMI. We could get into an argument about mandating proofing but this isn't the place.
    • Years ago I saw a chart showing the historical trend of firearms deaths in the US. It was sloped downwards.
    • Want to reduce death from firearms? Improve access to mental health services. Don't restrict guns.

    I don't think we need to discredit the VPC. They do a good job on their own. They could use some help in the publicity department.
     
  23. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And where did this data come from?
     
  24. 7.62 Nato

    7.62 Nato Member

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    "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."


    VPC is nothing but lying statisticians.
     
  25. Mr.Davis

    Mr.Davis Member

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    VPC is in the same class with the Brady Campaign, and this nothing they say should be trusted.
     
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