Gun owners fear Maryland cops target them for traffic stops

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Police don't search without probable cause or consent.

That's a rather "absolute" statement....

I might as well say CCW holders don't commit crimes.

But guess what, sometimes CCW holders commit crimes and sometimes cops search without probable cause or consent.



The ignorant speak out against police. They just don't know.

Sometimes police do things they shouldn't...people should speak up about that.


Besides that, the more vehicles they stop, the more illegal crap they find, which is a good thing for all of us.

That sounds horrible. It sounds like "passing more gun control will prevent more gun violence"
It sounds like "the more our government is allowed to tap our communications, the more crimes they can solve"

I can't think of a theory I hate more than "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about"
 
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Spent a fair amount of time around Jacksonville TX in 71-72.
My Wisconsin License plates were a cop magnet.

The cops go on fishing expeditions all the time.
Sometime they catch big fish sometimes they
catch you. I think its call catch and release.
 
Route 42 coming off the Delaware Memorial Bridge (Twin Spans) into New Jersey was once known as Cocaine Alley. All the Florida cars pulled over with folks that had hispanic sounding surnames were a near weekly news story. Most got pulled for tinted widows if IRC.
 
I lived in Virginia for 20 years. Every one knows that if you have a carry permit from Virginia the Maryland Nazi SS will search your vehicle and try to find your gun so they can charge a law abiding citizen with breaking one of their stupid laws that is only designed to protect criminals.
They do this because finding real criminals takes actual work, is dangerous and local common criminals don't have any money to pay into their hopelessly ruined legal system.
 
Every one knows that if you have a carry permit from Virginia the Maryland Nazi SS will search your vehicle
SO MDSP has a database of other states' licensees?

Or they're given access to other states' databases? Gonna need to see some proof of that.
 
I was a point man for testing license plate readers for the company that is most commonly used today. One of the biggest problems was how to import data for the search criteria. It took quit a while to input our local auto theft data into the search base from NCIC that was automatically loaded into the reader.

It involved downloading from our data base converting that data into a text file and conforming that so it would enter into the reader's data base.

Gun permit information varies in format from state to state and I could not imagine the nightmare of converting 50 states information into the proper searchable format even if you could get the CCW permit lists from all the states. There was not a way to generally search other states CCW files but had to be made as specific request using a person's identifying information
 
I sometimes drive to pa from my homeland of fl to visit family. I avoid Maryland at all costs and drive way out of my way sometimes. Shame too as plenty of good folks in that state and id like to stop and spend money....but I wont.

As for police not being overzealous sometimes.....that imho is a very naive view. Unless somehow police are a superior group of humans with none of the flaws the rest of humanity have? Many cops are good people and just as many are not so much. No different than any other group of people. Last time I looked being a police officer or firefighter or any other civil servant didn't automatically make one a better or perfect or flaw free person.
 
This is why we loath Maryland:

http://www.inquisitr.com/1104930/ma...der-over-an-hour-during-search-for-legal-gun/

"Maryland police officers detained a concealed carry permit holder for more than 90 minutes while looking for a gun he was legally allowed to posses"

One can wonder how many drunk drivers, open containers, people illegally possessing guns, people with illegal drugs, criminals with warrants passed by in those 90 minutes.

"The police officer immediately asked where Filippidis’ gun was upon approach"

IDK, what could have possibly given them that idea?
Maybe he had one of those immature bumper stickers that says "driver only carries $40 worth of ammo".


John Filippidis had this to say about the Maryland gun search:

“All that time, he’s humiliating me in front of my family, making me feel like a criminal. I’ve never been to prison, never declared bankruptcy, I pay my taxes, support my 20 employees’ families; I’ve never been in any kind of trouble. He wants to put me in jail. For no reason. He wants to take my wife and children away and put me in jail. In America, how does such a thing happen? … And after all that, he didn’t even write me a ticket.”

That doesn't sound like my America.
 
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Rule 1 when dealing with police.
Be polite. It is never a good idea to play who's the biggest jerk by the side of the road with a police officer. They have a lot of experience at this game--you will not win. They also have a lot of resources on their side. If things go sour, you want the dashcam footage to be your best witness in court. You don't have to suck up, just be polite.

Rule 2.
If they ASK for permission to search you can certainly say no and you probably should. If they have probable cause they would already be doing it instead of asking first--or at least your permission or lack thereof won't make any difference. If they don't have probable cause, your refusal, could save both you and the officer a lot of time and trouble. That's obviously good for you and it is also good for the officer as his/her job isn't to inconvenience law-abiding citizens, it's to catch lawbreakers.
 
Hmmm...my two cents here:

In general, I believe that the vast majority of police officers in our country are honestly trying to do a good job. I also believe that there are a tiny minority who are NOT trying to be honest at all, and I also believe that there is tiny minority who are simply total sticklers for enforcing whatever laws they're about at any given time.

I also am one that believes in being polite and respectful to officers (part of my upbringing on manners in general). There is darn little, if anything, which can be said to be positive in being less than polite and respectful to an officer during an official interaction.

That said, I'm not about to consent to a search, even knowing I have nothing to hide. Why? KNOWING I have nothing to hide doesn't mean that the officer won't find SOMETHING illegal that I didn't know about. For example, I've had kidney stones and have had narcotic medication prescribed to me. What if a forgotten bottle of that medication was in my car and it was two years past the expiration date? Hmmmm...

I am a SC resident who works in VA a lot. I have family in Manassas, VA and on occasion during visits may, indeed, cross over into Maryland. As a responsible gun owner, who knows how much of a PITA Maryland is about gun laws, it behooves me to become intimately familiar with Maryland's laws as well as the federal laws on interstate transportation of guns, and to make sure I'm in 100% compliance with them.

Also knowing these issues with Maryland, part of setting myself up for success would be to prepare the details beforehand. I can print out the Maryland State Police website information on this matter and have it with me, as well as the Maryland statutes, so I can demonstrate I'm in full compliance with Maryland law. I can print out the federal statutes on the matter so that I can demonstrate I'm in full compliance with federal law. And, because of the convenience of modern technology, I can even take pictures showing everything properly stored in full compliance with all the laws.

This may not stop a search. It may not stop an arrest. But it CAN work as an affirmative defense on my behalf after the fact.


Other things to think about:

- I-95 is a drug corridor. Common sense says that, knowing this, it would be reasonable to assume that the Maryland State Police would be more diligent about stops along this path than they might otherwise be elsewhere with respect to finding reasons to search vehicles. You don't have to like it, but you DO have to understand this.

- Do not knowingly give them a reason to pull you over in the first place. Though everybody knows that with the lengthy motor vehicle codes in place any police officer could find SOMETHING to pull someone over for if they really wanted to, it makes sense not to simply hand them an excuse. Don't speed is probably the biggest. Make sure your vehicle is in good repair. Watch your signaling and be careful not to drift across the lines. Don't drive like an idiot.

- Carry your CCW permit in a fashion which doesn't bring it into view unintentionally when you have to dig out your drivers license and such.

- Think before you open your mouth. Lying to a police officer is NEVER a good idea, but it is not unreasonable to assume, knowing what we know about Maryland and guns, that an officer who has just pulled you over MAY ask you a direct question about you having weapons in your vehicle. Answering the question honestly and saying you do have one in the vehicle does NOT constitute giving consent to search. It may give him probable cause, but that's NOT consent...and if he ASKS for consent to search, then the answer is "no". Giving consent opens up the world to anything he may find. Probable cause narrows this down a LOT. I'm sure a defense attorney would appreciate any such details in your favor.
 
US law enforcement on the east coast....

I agree with the remarks of not using profanity, humor, sarcasism, lies, rudeness, etc. The state trooper or officer may not know you or your delightful personality :rolleyes: . Get your documents, vehicle information together & do not fidget around.
Officers or troopers should in turn be honest, respectful & polite. Some are not. :mad:
I learned that in 2012.
Id advise THR members to watch the "frisbee golf traffic stop" on YouTube and maybe the Citrus County deputy traffic stop of a couple in a motor home. The male driver had a CCW/W license & a loaded concealed firearm. The patrol deputy starts screaming at the CCW holder(who did nothing wrong :mad:).
The recent event were a SC trooper shot a driver who was in compliance reaching for his DL as instructed was also tragic. :eek:
That trooper was fired by the SC Public Safety dir the next day. :D
Rusty
 
Damage while it disassembling it "looking for drugs"?

Completely different scenario, but its happened to me.

Legally, I found out, they must return it to a serviceable condition.

In my case that meant one functioning seat, a seat-belt, and the rest of my vehicles' interior in garbage bags in the bed of my truck.

Zero crime, BTW.

Took 'em about 3 hours :/
 
The recent event were a SC trooper shot a driver who was in compliance reaching for his DL as instructed was also tragic.
That trooper was fired by the SC Public Safety dir the next day.
The firing was correct. The trooper was responsible for controlling the situation and he failed to do so, with tragic result.

That said, when the trooper asked for the driver's ID, the driver turned rapidly and went headfirst into his vehicle. I don't think that fully justifies the trooper's actions, but it does help explain them somewhat. The trooper should have first asked where the man's ID was. Then he could have worked out a solution that kept everyone on the scene unshot. We can all understand why an LEO would become alarmed if a person were to turn rapidly and begin rummaging around in their vehicle during a traffic stop.
 
Post #40.....

I disagree with post #40.
The SC driver did not turn rapidly to get his DL & vehicle information.
The driver was instructed to do so by the trooper. :rolleyes:
If the driver was slow or fidgety that would make the state trooper more keyed up. :uhoh:
After posting my remarks I watched a few other videos/media articles about the incicent. The SC trooper was "trooper of the year" in 2007. He was also given a service award for his actions during a critical incident with a group of bank robbers in 2012.
News reports state the trooper who was fired now has criminal charges for shooting at the unarmed driver. He could face a 20 year sentence. :uhoh:

I've done patrol work and made traffic stops. Drivers and vehicle occupants act different ways all the time. Some are calm & compliant others get scared or stressed out. The SC trooper wasn't a rookie, he knew what working the road was like. He was fully responsible and accountable for his acts.
 
The SC driver did not turn rapidly to get his DL & vehicle information.
The SC driver most certainly did turn rapidly to get the requested information. There's really no room for debate on that topic. I've added a link to the video.
The driver was instructed to do so by the trooper.
The trooper did not actually instruct the driver to do anything. The trooper asked him (verbatim): "Can I see your license please?". At that point SC driver turned rapidly and went headfirst into his vehicle. Seems clear that the trooper was expecting the man to remove a wallet from his pocket, not to turn and go into his vehicle. Especially since he says as much in the video.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

News reports state the trooper who was fired now has criminal charges for shooting at the unarmed driver. He could face a 20 year sentence.
He shot a man under very questionable circumstances. The firing was correct and given the circumstances, it seems reasonable to let the courts decide if he should be punished.

As I said in my first post, I don't believe the circumstances justify the trooper's actions. The only reason I commented was that I don't think that the situation was quite as clearcut as it was made out to be by "post 36".
He was fully responsible and accountable for his acts.
I agree. One could even say that "The trooper was responsible for controlling the situation and he failed to do so, with tragic result." ;)
 
Thanks for the Heads up. I will if humanely possible NEVER cross the Maryland state line.

It can be easily done without hassle - stay off the busy Interstates and major US highways. My wife and I have taken "leaf-peeping" road trips up through New England and this year up as far as Flight 93 memorial in PA. Since the best scenery is never along the interstates, we always drive back country two lane roads and have never had an issue. We crossed through MD somewhere in the western panhandle where the amount of time spent is minimal
 
Deltaboy said:
Thanks for the Heads up. I will if humanely possible NEVER cross the Maryland state line.

That's very sad. You'll never see Annapolis, the Naval Academy,Ft. McHenry, Camden Yards, the tiny Assateague horses on Assateague Island, Smith Island in the Chesapeake Bay by passenger ferry, St. Marys, dating to the 1630's, Savage Mountain,the Western Maryland Oakland ski slopes.

Between myself and my older USMC brother, we lived in Maryland for 35 years. Him for 32, myself for 3.

Somehow, we managed to get through without even a misdemeanor and enjoyed life in that small but beautiful state. Try to overcome the fear and paranoia. Life is way too short.

Demo-garden-by-State-House-at-HSMC.-Credit-HSMC__202_162_c1.jpg
 
Thanks for the Heads up. I will if humanely possible NEVER cross the Maryland state line.

Do as you choose, of course. I certainly support anybody's decision on the matter.

However, the RISK of being pulled over is still mighty slim. In all the decades I've been driving up and down the coast (all with out of state plates), I've never been pulled over in Maryland.

;)
 
See here:

map-1.gif


Assateague Island

$$ • Park
Large natural sand barrier famous for its wild horses also offers camping & outdoor recreation.
Address: 7206 National Seashore Lane, Berlin, MD 21811

Phone: 410- 641-1441
Hours:

Open today · Open 24 hours
 
SC trooper incident....

You can postulate & pontificate all you want. :rolleyes:
The trooper was fired by his supervisor; the director of SC Public Safety. He obviously did not follow SOPs or act IAW the agency training.
The now ex-state trooper is also facing formal felony charges.
I'm not sure if the driver-victim has filed a civil action but I'm sure the South Carolina Dept of Public Safety will settle out of court, more than likely for a 7 figure amount. :mad:

RS
 
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