Gun show loophole?

[jim in Anchorage]

I often hear gun controllers mention this as if it exists. As you know there's no "gun show loophole." It's just code for requiring ALL private gun sales to go though a FFL.
This sounds like "common sense" gun laws but think thru it. How can anyone know I[as a non FFL holder] sold a gun to anyone? Right they can't.
How can we monitor private sales? Well now we need 100% gun registration. That's the next step. And we know what comes next.
This " gun show loophole" thing scares me far more then some goofy magazine restrictions..

 

[AirForceShooter]

Here's the fallacy of the gun show loop hole.
Look at every one of the mass shooting in the last few years.
Every shooter would have passed a background check.

Yeah they want your guns

AFS

 

[frgood]

@Jim_in_Anchorage, I agree with your logic and its sad inevitable conclusion.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Edit.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

True Airforceshooter. But my point is if I sell a gun to you in a private transaction, and we don't go though a FFL, how would anyone know? That's where registration comes in.

 

[RugerBob]

Basically , you can't have 100% back ground checks without 100% registration.
I don't know why that point is never brought up by the media stories I read.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Basically , you can't have 100% back ground checks without 100% registration.
I don't know why that point is never brought up by the media stories I read.

Did you mean without? Edit-Well shoot you edited while I was editing you.

 

[tomturkey]

Basically , you can't have 100% back ground checks without 100% registration.
I don't know why that point is never brought up by the media stories I read.

The media does not want any one to know the rest of the story.

 

[Quiet]

The "gun show loophole" is a scare tactic catch phrase designed to sway sheeple to pass legislation that would require all firearm transfers to go through a FFL dealer.

After they pass this, they will wait a few years and then declare the NRA sneaked in a "loophole" that prevents enforcement and call for more legislation to close this "loophole". Said legislation will call for full firearm registration.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

The media does not want any one to know the rest of the story.

Because they know baby steps work. little here, little there and next thing you know they won.

 

[Bigdog57]

Incrementalism. Once all gun sales go through an FFL, then they begin to restrict and cut down on the FFL holders. Eventually the FFLs are all gone, and we cannot legally buy a gun at all.

 

[txblackout]

it is the same as the internet loophole

The phrase is designed to make anti gunners think you can buy guns at a gunshow or on the internet without a background check.

Might as well call it the parking lot loophole..

I might be ok with calling it the face to face private sale loophole.

 

[GAF]

In Wisconsin I can buy a gun in a face to face. There is no loophole.
It is the LAW!!!

As far as I can tell there is no such thing as the gun show loophole.
At least here is Wisconsin. The last gun I bought at a gun show I
had to fill out paperwork (4473) and pass a background check.

At a gun show before that it was a private sale and Wisconsin law say that is
legal. Remember its not a loophole it the law.

When someone call a face to face gun sale a loophole it sounds shady and
criminal . I think that is what the anti gun people want the ill informed to believe.

 

[dragon813gt]

It's a misnomer. They use the term to frighten the uninformed. Makes it seem like you can go to a gun a show and buy whatever you want w/out a background check.

Fact is that all FFLs that sell at gun shows still have you fill out the 4473 and go through the NICS check. Non FFL holders that sell at gun shows are governed by the state laws. If FTF transactions are legal then it can be done.

At the end of the day it's not about firearms. It's about complete control of your life. Removing firearms from the citizens is the first step to achieving this.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

it is the same as the internet loophole

The phrase is designed to make anti gunners think you can buy guns at a gunshow or on the internet without a background check.

Might as well call it the parking lot loophole..

I might be ok with calling it the face to face private sale loophole.

Last gun I bought was off a grocery store bulletin board. .300 Wby Rem 700. I went to the address listed [after calling] put down my $300 and went home with my new gun.
This short of thing will not happen after they "close the gun show loophole."

 

[yugorpk]

Heres what they dont tell you about closing the " gun show loophole"

If you sell a gun to a person through an FFL it has t go through a dealer of course. That means the dealer has to process it through his books. 4473 etc. If the person buying the gun does not pass the NICS check the dealer cannot process it through. Then the dealer has to process it to you on a 4473. Fees etc. If YOU, for whatever reason, cannot pass a NICS check guess what. You don't get your gun back.

 

[CoalTrain49]

It's possible that the only registration would be in the dealer's log, depending on the state you live in. 4473 gun info isn't retained or even given to ATF/FBI in a NICS check if you live in a non-POC state. The registration, honest to god digital database part, comes in at the state level. If you live in a POC state that information may be retained by the state. Some states like OR and WA have a database for those records.

http://www.oregon.gov/osp/id/docs/dealer_yellow_book_final_011509.pdf

The trend is toward this type of background check. The check will be made using state and the NCIC database.

With registration the state is going to be the ones to implement it before the feds. Actually, the feds have no real reason to do it when they can just give the money to the states to do it and ask them to search their records for gun/owner information. It's a backdoor to the information.

I think there are about 20 states that run their own background checks.

 

[yugorpk]

The Oregon instant back ground check simply uses state employees doing the NICS check. The dealer calls into the state offices and the state employee initiates a NICS check online. It can take hours depending on how many state BG check employees are working that day and if there is a gun show is going on in Portland. The dealer retains records of the sale . In any case if the sale does not go through because the buyer is flagged by NICS the dealer has to transfer it back the same way to the original seller . If the seller fails the BG check the gun cannot be transferred.

 

[deadin]

If YOU, for whatever reason, cannot pass a NICS check guess what. You don't get your gun back.

Can anyone give me an example of where someone that can't pass a NICS check should/would/could be in legal possession of a firearm in the first place??

 

[yugorpk]

Thats why you are having the gun returned to you.

"Could" be is easy. Lots of people have guns they arent "allowed" to have.

 

[CoalTrain49]

The Oregon instant back ground check simply uses state employees doing the NICS check. The dealer calls into the state offices and the state employee initiates a NICS check online. It can take hours depending on how many state BG check employees are working that day and if there is a gun show is going on in Portland. The dealer retains records of the sale . In any case if the sale does not go through because the buyer is flagged by NICS the dealer has to transfer it back the same way to the original seller . If the seller fails the BG check the gun cannot be transferred.

I disagree.

The info that is passed to the OSP is not the same info that is passed in a NICS check.

when prompted, the
required information in the exact order as follows:

PURCHASER INFORMATION
Name: Last, First, Middle provide any suffix used i.e., JR. SR. II etc.
Race: Black/American Indian or Alaskan Native/Asian or Pacific
Islander/White (includes Latin American and Hispanic/Unknown.
Sex: Male/Female
Date of Birth: Month/Day/Year
Social Security: Not required, provide only if given voluntarily. Solicitation of this
number is authorized by ORS 166.420. It will be used only as a
means of identification.
Address: City/State/Zip Code
Identification: Identify the type of identification given and provide the number.
Example: ID Type = Oregon Drivers License
ID Number = #1234567

FIREARM INFORMATION
Make/Description: Example: Beretta, Browning, Colt, Ruger, etc.
Model: Example: Single Six, 66-2, etc.
Gun type/Description: Example: Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle, Revolver, Derringer, etc.
Action type: Example: Bolt, Pump, Semi-automatic, etc.
Caliber: Example: 38 Spec., 357 Mag., 9mm, 12 gauge, etc.
Serial Number: Described as Manufacture’s number in statute
Owner applied number: If applicable

By federal law the FBI can't maintain a registry and gun SN's are not transferred in a NICS check. Gun SN is passed in an OSP background check and that info is retained.

Know your state laws. That's where the hammer falls.

 

[Deanimator]

Basically , you can't have 100% back ground checks without 100% registration.
I don't know why that point is never brought up by the media stories I read.

For the same reason that Holocaust deniers never bring up Babi Yar. It runs contrary to "the narrative".

They can't BOTH:

1. claim that they don't want to take anybody's guns.
2. want registration.

Registration of firearms has virtually no OTHER purpose besides facilitation of future bans and confiscations.

"Universal background checks" is their equivalent of "resettlement to the east". It's a bland euphemism intended to obfuscate the REAL means and ends.

 

[Deanimator]

Incrementalism. Once all gun sales go through an FFL, then they begin to restrict and cut down on the FFL holders. Eventually the FFLs are all gone, and we cannot legally buy a gun at all.

In Chicago, they went one better.

They required registration of all handguns... then refused to supply the forms to or accept them from anyone except the corrupt politicians, police, and their assorted hangers on.

Funny isn't it that no anti-gunner will even talk about that...?

 

[deadin]

"Could" be is easy. Lots of people have guns they arent "allowed" to have.

We both know this is a fact, but notice I said "legal" possession.

 

[P5 Guy]

The Real Reason

:banghead:
45 states collect statewide sales taxes.
38 states collect local sales taxes.
The five states with the highest average combined state-local sales tax rates are Tennessee (9.45 percent), Arkansas (9.26 percent), Alabama (8.91 percent), Louisiana (8.91 percent), and Washington (8.89 percent).
Sales tax rates differ by state, but sales tax bases also impact how much revenue is collected from a tax and how the tax affects the economy.
Differences in sales tax rates cause consumers to shop across borders or buy products online.


Type of Background Check
Costs
Identity Verification, Social Security Number Trace, Address History $2 -$4
Criminal Background Checks Price Range
National Criminal Background Search / Criminal Database Search $7 - $20

Statewide Criminal Search $9 - $20
Federal Criminal Search $8 - $15
OFAC Terrorist / Watch List Search $0 - $5

Follow the cash flow.
And I know a number of FFLs that truly resent unlicensed folks being allowed to sell firearms. After all the FFLs have to buy the license, keep a storefront and retain the records. Also allowing the agents of the BATFE access to said record.
All that costs or earns the FFL cash. Especially when the FFL can turn a profit from a $50.00 transfer that the FFLs actual cost is $8.00 to $9.00 in some cases. (see above chart)