Half the servicos aventuras primers I have used fail

[castile]

Meaning what WRT seating the primers? Do they seat below flush?

Meaning my primers seem to have been seated to the bottom. I did not notice that it seated them any lower than they already were. Next I will load some 9mm with the primers I have used for years. CCI, Remington, Winchester. I will use the same Hornady hand press and then take them all to the range. They are all in different marked zip lock bags. So I can see if any group seems to be the issue. If the AV primers in all the different primer presses used have the same issue then its the primers alone. I will also load 10 more round using the Frankfort primer press and using the AV primers. This will give me a good idea if its the primers, presses or seating. I will max out the Frankfort press so they seat as low as possible. The last thing I will do is what ever does not fire I will save and see if there seems to be a correlation between the cases themselves. If they are all say military cases that could also be an issue.

 

[CQB45ACP]

So what are you going to do now?

You've got a number of grey beards here giving you advice and it’s overwhelmingly consistent.

I’d listen.

I’ve tried ignoring it in the past, relying on my own methods, fighting against city hall. In the end, the grey beards win.

Good luck

 

[CQB45ACP]

Meaning my primers seem to have been seated to the bottom. I did not notice that it seated them any lower than they already were. Next I will load some 9mm with the primers I have used for years. CCI, Remington, Winchester. I will use the same Hornady hand press and then take them all to the range. They are all in different marked zip lock bags. So I can see if any group seems to be the issue. If the AV primers in all the different primer presses used have the same issue then its the primers alone. I will also load 10 more round using the Frankfort primer press and using the AV primers. This will give me a good idea if its the primers, presses or seating. I will max out the Frankfort press so they seat as low as possible. The last thing I will do is what ever does not fire I will save and see if there seems to be a correlation between the cases themselves. If they are all say military cases that could also be an issue.

Our comments crossed in the ether…

Seems like an awful lot of moving parts and while they may all be necessary, maybe not all at the same time.

You know you, but I have to wipe the slate clean and start over step by step. Back to basics as the saying goes…like I hope the Washington Commanders are going to do.

Again, good luck.

 

[castile]

So what are you going to do now?

You've got a number of grey beards here giving you advice and it’s overwhelmingly consistent.

I’d listen.

I’ve tried ignoring it in the past, relying on my own methods, fighting against city hall. In the end, the grey beards win.

Good luck

I think it was obvious what I was doing. I wrote it very plane. I have a wide verity of rounds loaded with different priming systems, and a base line of known good primers. I don't believe its the seating but this will show if that is the issue or not. There are too many people complaining about the same thing with the same primers for it to be just a seating issue. I know correlational is not causation but that works really only in a single issue. I.E. I took an Aspirin and my cancer went into remission. But if a lot of people are taking a certain thing and they are all having the same result that is a different story. In this case its leaving correlation is not causation and becoming circumstantial evidence. You don't find people saying on the interweb that CCI are bad, or Winchester, Remington primers are bad. Reminds me of the Wuhan red death. The Chicoms are saying its a Pangolin but there is a Viral enhancement lab next door that is working on militarizing that very virus and people have went missing saying so. Sorry but I am not buying it. I could be wrong but I go with the experts unless my gut says different. And my gut says different on this one. I will never not go with my gut.

 

[Walkalong]

Meaning my primers seem to have been seated to the bottom. I did not notice that it seated them any lower than they already were.

But the way they already were was not deep enough.

Maybe measure the depth of the primer pockets with your dial caliber as suggested by a member, measure the primer, and see what that looks like.

 

[castile]

Measured a group of different maker brass pocket depth. goes as follows
Win .118
RP .119
FC .118
Z 9x19 .123
ZSR .121
Blazer Brass .120
S&B .119

Primers are as follows

AV depth width
.112 .174
.114 .174
.112 .174
.118 .174
CCI
.118 .174
.119 .174
.118 .174
Unis
.117 .174
.115 .174
.115 .174

 

[Tilos]

I think it was obvious what I was doing. I wrote it very plane. I have a wide verity of rounds loaded with different priming systems, and a base line of known good primers. I don't believe its the seating but this will show if that is the issue or not. There are too many people complaining about the same thing with the same primers for it to be just a seating issue. I know correlational is not causation but that works really only in a single issue. I.E. I took an Aspirin and my cancer went into remission. But if a lot of people are taking a certain thing and they are all having the same result that is a different story. In this case its leaving correlation is not causation and becoming circumstantial evidence. You don't find people saying on the interweb that CCI are bad, or Winchester, Remington primers are bad. Reminds me of the Wuhan red death. The Chicoms are saying its a Pangolin but there is a Viral enhancement lab next door that is working on militarizing that very virus and people have went missing saying so. Sorry but I am not buying it. I could be wrong but I go with the experts unless my gut says different. And my gut says different on this one. I will never not go with my gut.

I suggest you find a priming method that is known to go well beyond flush-seating.
I believe that ram priming on a press would be that method and could be verified thru testing.

Putting something soft and crushable (a ball of tin foil, etc) in a primer pocket and bottoming out the press/ram prime would crush it to the max depth below flush that is attainable with that method. (a ball of lead/lead shot/or anything soft)

This could be as simple as removing the anvil of a spent primer and ram priming it back into a case/primer pocket.
If this proves problematic, the anvil-less primer could be shortened by filing down the open end of the cup.

Jumping around to different primers (and priming methods) when the problem is with the SA primers will only prove the problem is the SA primers and we already know that.

I thought your goal was to get consistent/reliable results with the SA primers, but it seems your goal is to prove that SA primers are unreliable.
.

 

[castile]

I suggest you find a priming method that is known to go well beyond flush-seating.
I believe that ram priming on a press would be that method and could be verified thru testing.

Putting something soft and crushable in a primer pocket and bottoming out the press/ram prime would crush it to the max depth below flush that is attainable with that method. (a ball of lead/lead shot/or anything soft)

This could be as simple as removing the anvil of a spent primer and ram priming it back into a case/primer pocket.
If this proves problematic, the anvil-less primer could be shortened by filing down the open end of the cup.

Jumping around to different primers (and priming methods) when the problem is with the SA primers will only prove the problem is the SA primers and we already know that.

I thought your goal was to get consistent/reliable results with the SA primers, but it seems your goal is to prove that SA primers are unreliable.
.

My goal is not to prove one way or the other. If you look at a thing looking to prove one thing you will find that one thing. I have my opinion on it but my goal is to see if any of this actually makes a difference. This will give me a good idea if there is something to the seating or not. It should also show if there is something with these particular primers that is not consistent or if it is purely the seating. The biggest reason I don't think its seating is that so many others have had the same issue with these primers, and that I have loaded for 30 plus years and never had this issue in the past. That is a lot of circumstantial evidence to just push aside.

 

[castile]

Servicios Aventuras Argentine small pistol primers test

I loaded up 100 rounds of 9mm ammo with these primers and tried them in 5 different pistols.https://patreon.com/Thekoba49?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_sourc...

youtu.be

Argentinian (Servicios & Aventuras) Primer Cons

In this video I'll explain some of the cons that I've encountered with the Servicios & Aventuras small pistol primers. These problems range from a roughly 5...

youtu.be

Post on threads
I have not tried them and as you said, online reviews are often vague at best. I would not worry about most normal firearms with healthy hammer strikes but might be problematic with cowboy action guns that have been worked over for light springs.

One of my old Colt SAA's has a really heavy-ass spring and never failed to fire any primer but my Rossi 92 clone has a somewhat light spring from the factory. It has also never misfired but would not surprise me if it ever does. Some folks seem to have troubles with striker fired pistols.

Bottom line is that these primers might work just fine in your guns - or might not...

One thing I do see is that some guns may strike lighter and that could be the issue. I will take my glock to the range and try any rounds that FTF

 

[Artg56]

A google search will show numerous ftf complaints involving CCI primers yet the majority of people have no issues.

I cannot duplicate your poor results, SA primers ignite 100% of the time for me in clean uniform pockets using a variety of firearms.

I have one rifle prone to light striking regardless of which brand primer I load.

 

[Walkalong]

Measured a group of different maker brass pocket depth. goes as follows
Win .118
RP .119
FC .118
Z 9x19 .123
ZSR .121
Blazer Brass .120
S&B .119

Primers are as follows

AV depth width
.112 .174
.114 .174
.112 .174
.118 .174
CCI
.118 .174
.119 .174
.118 .174
Unis
.117 .174
.115 .174
.115 .174

I forgot to mention, measure just the cup, don’t include the anvil legs which generally stick out prior to proper seating

 

[Blue68f100]

^^^

And remember the anvil feet usually extend below the cup. This is to preload the pillow so they get the sharp impact needed to set them off. From what I have gather is that the SA primer anvil feet do not extend below the cup. If this is the case you must make the cup bottom out in the pocket which should put most all 0.004"+ below the base surface. Any gap between the cup and pocket will cause loss of energy.

 

[Tilos]

My goal is not to prove one way or the other. If you look at a thing looking to prove one thing you will find that one thing. I have my opinion on it but my goal is to see if any of this actually makes a difference. This will give me a good idea if there is something to the seating or not. It should also show if there is something with these particular primers that is not consistent or if it is purely the seating. The biggest reason I don't think its seating is that so many others have had the same issue with these primers, and that I have loaded for 30 plus years and never had this issue in the past. That is a lot of circumstantial evidence to just push aside.

OH, OK
Never mind,
Adding more variables to your testing (I'll take my Glock) will only dilute the results, as I see it.
Actual measurement/science trumps theory every time...
Have you read this post:

Crude comparison, small pistol primer hardness

I currently have 4 brands of small pistol primers on the shelf. I want to conserve my Federals and use the others for practice and play. So I compared the firing pin indentations on CCI, Winchester, and Servicios Aventuras primers using my S&W Model 60 J Frame snubby in double action. The...

www.thehighroad.org

A pic posted there:

just sayin'
.

 

[kerreckt]

I have shot about 3k of these primers in four different handguns with NO problems. Like all primers they must be seated below flush. I bottom them out. Best wishes

 

[castile]

All this anecdotal evidence is not impressing me. Why have there been no issues with my hand loads for 30 plus years? Now I use some Argentine primers that others have had issues with and its the seating. Not impressing me at all. But I can see if it has some legs when I go to the range. It will tell if the only primers that has any issues are the AV vs CCI and UNIS that I will use as a base line. Then any that do not fire I will make a note of what primers and what priming system I used. I can then take any that do not fire and try my Glock 19 and see if they will fire in it. I may also take my PB 92 which is most likely the hardest hitting 9mm I have. This should give a good indication of what the real issue is. If its seating and I can deduce it fine. But if not then its not the issue and it is the primers themselves. No one is going to convince me by saying the same thing over and over. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[zeke]

So what are you going to do now?

You've got a number of grey beards here giving you advice and it’s overwhelmingly consistent.

I’d listen.

I’ve tried ignoring it in the past, relying on my own methods, fighting against city hall. In the end, the grey beards win.

Good luck

Am guessing there are alot of white beards commenting And am grateful for every grey hair

 

[castile]

Am guessing there are alot of white beards commenting And am grateful for every grey hair

When I started out in my profession many years ago. People would tell me and be very upset that I was so young. They would say I do not know what I am doing. Until the work was done and they either said nothing or would say "man you really know what you are doing. " Experience comes with age to be sure. But I do not take hear say from anyone no matter how many gray hairs they have or lack. I have seen some really dumb idiot older people and some really dumb younger ones. I will grant that most older ones have the better hind sight than a younger person. But its not an absolute rule. There are many many exceptions.
One of the big ones I have argued with many older ones who are just out and out wrong, is that WD 40 causes gumming or it drys out and gums up, or its got water in it, fish oil, is a pure solvent and has no lubricating capabilities at all.

I have used WD for 60 plus years. Its is a very good product. It has no fish oil in it, its has no water in it, It is a lubricant [a light lube but a lube non the less.] It is has solvents in it but also a 3 in one oil. I have seen major gun channels on YouTube by some older gun shop owners and they have said some stupid things about WD. One is it gums up when it dries. It does not. I proved this by doing my own video taking a cup of WD [I buy it by the gallon] and letting it set for a few months. The solvent evaporated off and what was left was a 3 in one type of clear oil. What does happen is no one or only a very few actually strip a gun down to its very smallest components and clean them after they shoot it. If if its not shot dust and dirt will collect if its not kept in some bag or at least a gun case. Over the years cracks and crevices get Sebum from humans handling it, oils and solvents that go into these cracks and crevices and then over the years dry out. WD will get into these soften that crud and then it comes out, the solvent dries and leaves that crud behind.

I have been told that WD will rust metal. LOL that is a really good one. I have seen tests done with all kinds of oil and base lines that show that WD40 holds up really well to the salt water used to promote the rust on the treated metal. Its not the best but far far from the worst. It is usually in the top 10 I do not use WD as the only lube but I do use it as a penetrating oil, to coat parts and blued guns for protection. I do add in either Marvel Mystery oil or 3 in one to give it more oil to solvent ratio.

Try to convince someone of this that already believes anecdotal evidence or correlation is causation is near impossible. They put WD on it now there is some gummy brown crud on their gun. WD there for dries gummy. I have used it for years and my guns one I bought in 1974 my first 22 and it looks like the day I bought it.

This is why I don't take what is hear say as evidence. Because its not. I am not saying I will not be proven wrong. But I will have to be PROVEN wrong.

 

[Ironicaintit]

If these new primers are several thousandths shorter.... that could very well make the difference.

If the tool maxes out before the primer's seated, there ya go.

 

[Walkalong]

All this anecdotal evidence is not impressing me.

I can tell, you are strongly resisting the possibility the primers are not seated deeply enough.

Now I use some Argentine primers that others have had issues with and its the seating. Not impressing me at all.

But it should after you tell us how much harder they were to seat.

Good luck fixing the problem, even it it's discontinuing using those primers.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

You’re right, it’s the primers. Dump them, don’t buy them again and move along.

Problem solved.

 

[JKP]

I've had no problems with SA SPP. They seat much easier than Fiocchi primers.

 

[castile]

You’re right, it’s the primers. Dump them, don’t buy them again and move along.

Problem solved.

Done I tossed them into Mels hole.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Done I tossed them into Mels hole.

When you lose confidence in a component it spoils the fun of shooting. It doesn’t matter if you figure “it” out, there’s always going to be a nagging doubt. Nothing spoils a good time like a nag.

 

[irving]

I had about a 4% failure rate in my 686-6 with SyA primers and mixed brass, but only in double action. No failures in single action. Now, after reading all these replies, I decided to check my Dillon 550c to see if the priming punch was bottoming out prematurely. Turns out the diameter of the punch is .175", which is larger than the primer pocket. So the punch bottoms out on the opening of the primer pocket, which may or may not be when the primer is properly seated.

I'm thinking about reducing the diameter of the punch until it fits into the primer pocket. Has anyone done this? Results?

 

[dannyd]

Here's my used primers from 2023, many an SA is in amongst them.