If not the 870...then what?

[PJR]

I have never had an 870 fail on me and that covers guns made from 1977 to 2002 in 12, 20 and 28 gauge.

I have however failed my 870 due to operator error. Fortunately, not often and not when it mattered.

The only shotgun I'd consider as a replacement for my 870 would be either a Benelli M4 or M2.

 

[OregonJohnny]

I'll defend the 870 to anyone. My dad bought me an Express 12 gauge for my 12th birthday (early 90's). I put at least 5,000 flawless rounds through it before I stupidly sold it a couple years ago for some quick cash. I replaced it with an 870 Marine. Other than some finish issues inside the bore with multiple barrels, it has had no reliability issues. I have only short-stroked a shotgun twice in my life, both were during the same string of speed-shooting through some 3" magnum buckshot. I was flinching pretty badly by the 4th and 5th shots. It was 100% operator error, not the 870. So the moral is, pump it like you mean it, shoot thousands of rounds through it, then shoot some more.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I wish Remington had left off the magazine tube dimples and kept the spring-loaded detent on the barrel ring to keep magazine caps tight when they made that change to the Express guns. Yeah, it might save a buck or two per gun, but it complicates the supply chain with a different type of barrels and magazine caps. That's a pain IMHO.

But I finally settled on a solution- just buy old Expresses, and leave the newer ones on the used rack. The older Expresses work just fine, and in spite of perhaps looking ragged on the surface, almost all of them (save for the kitchen-table "gunsmith" victims) are perfectly sound internally. I've been buying 870s for going on 40 years and have yet to buy a new one. As long as good used older model Expresses, Wingmasters or Police guns show up on the used rack at good prices, I won't ever need to buy a new one either.

YMMV of course...

lpl

 

[batex]

My opinion is that one spends way too much time reading posts by the same few people on the internet if they really think the 870 is an unreliable design. I have 3 and they all have been perfectly reliable. Forget the rust issue on express models...It's a non-issue if you oil the gun down. As for the chamber roughness, that may be the case with recently manufactured guns...However, it seems a five minute polish job will take care of that. I believe the 870 is the best selling pump of all time for a reason...it simply works. Also, take a look at the aftermarket products for it...all those other companies wouldn't support it if was garbage or if they didn't sell tons of them. I also agree with those that say buy used. I don't ever think you can wear one out. In my area, there are lots of used 12 gauge 870 Wingmasters and Express models out there. There are also guys who shoot trap with 870s that have shot many tens of thousands of rounds and they never had a problem. Also, don't forget that 99.99% of 870 owners out there who never had a problem, never post the fact that they don't have problems with their 870's. In fact, the few of us who actually post messages about shotguns on forums such as this account for probably .001% of the population.

 

[TheProf]

Thanks for all the input. I will BA/UU/R.

 

[Tim the student]

As will I when this semester ends.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

I have a 9 month old Remington Express 7-shot, after 300 rds of remington 2 3/4 00 I haven't had a hiccup. No rust issues, I oil it between uses. I have complete confidence that should I need to bring the pain, the 870 will be more than happy to level the playing field.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Walter,

Barrels for the newer Express guns lack the spring-loaded detent in the barrel ring that keeps the old style magazine caps (with dimples around the edge) secure on old style Express guns, Wingmasters, Police guns etc. Thus magazine caps on the old style guns used with new Express barrels will continually shoot loose, unless secured with teflon tape or some other kludge. As will magazine caps on new style Express guns where the magazine tube dimples have been removed... the dimples keep the plastic magazine spring retainer/magazine cap detent in place. New style Express magazine caps have 'teeth' inside to engage the teeth in the plastic retainer.

The current Express "HD" version with the 18.5" barrel and factory magazine extension, as far as I know, still has the detent in the barrel ring though. Go figure... (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, there).

So there are two kinds of barrels and two kinds of magazine caps now, for the same 12 gauge guns- three kinds of barrels, if you count the Special Field guns as well

I get tired of trying to explain the differences to folks who don't already know... 8^). I can't see where it saves enough money to be worth the complication.

lpl

 

[Howaido]

Evidently the Pardner pump is now the best pump shotgun made. I would buy one of those if I were you.

However, I might be willing to part with the last good 870 express if the price was right. This one actually functions and has never had a problem, making it a collector's item.

PM me and we can discuss price.

 

[Mr. T]

Mossberg 500 is the only shotgun to pass the U.S. Army reliability tests, which is why they are the military's combat shotgun. I don't know about you, but that's good enough for me -- which is why I bought two of them.

 

[Howaido]

Mossberg 500 is the only (submitted) shotgun to pass the U.S. Army reliability tests

Fixed that.

However, let's face it. The point is moot. A new dawn is upon us. We are living in the age of the Pardner pump, my friend. How long before the US Army sees the error of it's way? Not long, I fear.

 

[jmr40]

Not a knock on the Mossberg at all. They get the job done, but just to calrify, the 500 was never submitted for testing. It was the 590 which is a much improved version of the 500. It was the only gun submitted and it met the military's requirements, but that proves nothing about how it compares to other guns.

 

[toivo]

I got slammed a few years ago on another forum for recommending to a new 870 Express owner that he polish the chamber. I was called a "Remington Basher," among other things. But I'll stand by it--I did have that problem. My 870 Express would get hung up on certain ammo, regardless of operator.

However, in my experience, that's all that ever goes wrong with a newer 870, and it's an easy fix. Polish the chamber and move on. They're great guns.

In the real world, very few guns are perfect. Mossberg 500s are great, but sometimes the safety button breaks off. You don't want that to happen on your defense gun, so you replace the plastic button with a metal one, and you're good to go.

Most "reasonably priced" guns have some little quirk that needs to be addressed. It's part of the process of making your new gun your own.

 

[Stuohn]

I know it cost more but, have you considered a Benelli super nova. I bought one after I sold my 500 and couldn't be happier.

 

[Kymasabe]

I owned an older 870 Wingmaster that I used to shoot trap with, I put over 50,000 rounds thru that gun myself and it never so much as hiccuped. I sold that old gun and later bought "new" 870's that never felt the same, were never as smooth. So, I went shotgunless for years and recently went looking for another old, worn, broken-in 870. There were piles of them out there but it had been so long since I shot one, I had forgotten how much I didn't like the location of the safety or the release button. So, after much hair pulling and gnashing of teeth...I bought a really nice used Mossberg 500 instead. And...it's been perfect.

So, the point it, there is no point to this post. It's late, I'm tired, and rambling. I say, go shoot a few hundred rounds thru the thing and see what it does. If you don't like it, sell it. Chalk up the loss to "education" and go buy a gun that suits you better.

 

[hub]

Keep the 870 express, most problems are over hyped besides I'm sure they are probably easy fixes that you could do yourself. Go out and shoot the heck out of it. Use different shells, cheap value packs, light target loads, some high brass loads, buckshot, rifled slugs to see if it will choke or get hung up on anything. If you do have any problems post em I'm sure there is plenty of people here that will help out. I would say more than likely it will function just fine.

I will agree my express is not as smooth as a wingmaster but it is a budget version of the 870 shotgun. A lot of the cut in price is due to less fit and finish. Because of this not only can you see the difference you can feel it tool. You could always do a little polishing on the internals yourself to slick things up a bit.

 

[throdgrain]

If I needed one, I would buy a new Remington 870, express or Wingmaster, tomorrow without a second thought.