Has this election knocked some Democrats to their senses re: gun control?
- Thread starter davec
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cslinger
Member
It's not just about gun control it is about the fact that the Democrats are not the Democrats of old. The old, true, democratic ideals were very noble and much more centrist then the uber left wing crazyness of today.
The Democrats need to come back towards the center and instead of latching on to every single left wing wannabe cause embrass something that really matters. They need to come back towards the center.
Let's face it as a society we don't like extremes left or right and the Democrats of the past say 20 years have been so far left you can't even see them.
I predict that they will eventually come back to center and you will once again start voting for the person and not necessarily the party.
Chris
The Democrats need to come back towards the center and instead of latching on to every single left wing wannabe cause embrass something that really matters. They need to come back towards the center.
Let's face it as a society we don't like extremes left or right and the Democrats of the past say 20 years have been so far left you can't even see them.
I predict that they will eventually come back to center and you will once again start voting for the person and not necessarily the party.
Chris
45% of the American electorate is brain dead. There is no hope for that segment, except to die off and the next generation to wake up. However, statistically, it is probably too much to hope for that the new generation will learn from the mistakes of the former, so my prediction is 45% of the electorate will always be braindead. 
cerberus
member
Who was the winner in
Our new state IraQ?
Our new state IraQ?
shep854
Member
The Democratic Party was taken over by communists and socialists in the 1960's. After 2004, there will need to be a "civil war" in the Dems and the Marxists purged for them to become competitive again.
However, if the Republicans let their majorities go to their collective head, and fail to successfully explain their positions, they can easily drive voters back to the Dems.
In fact, if the Libertarians get their act together, they can begin to make inroads in the national scene.
However, if the Republicans let their majorities go to their collective head, and fail to successfully explain their positions, they can easily drive voters back to the Dems.
In fact, if the Libertarians get their act together, they can begin to make inroads in the national scene.
ACP230
Member
I doubt it. Schumer, Feinstein and the Clintons will never agree that the 2nd is an individual right.
They want disarmed serfs.
They want disarmed serfs.
davec
Member
Schumer, Feinstein and the Clintons cant get anybody elected outside of the North East and West Coast. I think they're figuring that out.
The entire Democrat party needs to go in for deep therapy and self examination. I'm not talking about that once a week for a half hour therapy, either. They need to commit themselves to an institution for as long as it takes to figure out who they are and where they're going. They keep nominating these leftover '60's hippie/protesters and they keep losing. They need to learn from their mistakes and moveon .org.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Given the ultra-tight nature of many, many races across the country, it's difficult to say that the dems are not competitive with the Repubs. On the other hand, I believe that very few people voted for Kerry -- but many voted against Bush (for whatever reason). That is something that the Repubs need to work on to stay competitive. If the Dems had fielded a better (or even likeable) candidate . . .
On the gun control issue ... The Democrats' aren't likely to change their position, but they will work much harder to find ways to make us think they are. I suspect that rather then admit they're wrong they'll ignore the issue untill some future day when they come to power again. Then they will do what they really want too do.
I doubt the Democrats take any pro-gun-owner lesson from any of this.
Remember, Kerry was their attempt to "reach out" to gun owners.
By Democrat standards, Kerry is a fanatical gun nut. After all, he has actually touched a firearm - more than once! - and he has pretended to hunt in front of the national media.
These staged media events were supposed to make us forget Kerry's 20+ years of shilling in favor of every crackpot gun-control scheme presented in the Senate.
If anything, Kerry's defeat could convince the Democrats that it's useless for them to try to appeal to gun owners and they might as well stop pretending.
Remember, Kerry was their attempt to "reach out" to gun owners.
By Democrat standards, Kerry is a fanatical gun nut. After all, he has actually touched a firearm - more than once! - and he has pretended to hunt in front of the national media.
These staged media events were supposed to make us forget Kerry's 20+ years of shilling in favor of every crackpot gun-control scheme presented in the Senate.
If anything, Kerry's defeat could convince the Democrats that it's useless for them to try to appeal to gun owners and they might as well stop pretending.
If you take the time to actually read through some of the threads at DU, or at least when they don't shut down their site to non-registered users, you will see that it's a lost cause with real hardcore Leftists.
The Democrats have sold their souls to the hardcore leftists.
That's why there will never be another Zell Miller in the party, at least not for 20 years.
And you will see, if you get a chance tp scroll through some DU threads, that they are a party driven by hate and loathing for freedom, individual rights, morality, or any other silly old dusty remnant of "Western Civilization."
If it's a Western idea, and it doesn't have Marx stamped all over it, they aren't interested.
No, the Democrats, like any other addicts hooked on dangerous, corrosive stuff, will have to hit rock bottom before they even begin to consider the error of their ways.
But hitting rock bottom oftens means dying or winding up in prison.....metahphorically speaking, of course.
But some of these folks at DU are so far gone into neo-socialist post-modern leftism that there will be no coming back for them, ever.
hillbilly
The Democrats have sold their souls to the hardcore leftists.
That's why there will never be another Zell Miller in the party, at least not for 20 years.
And you will see, if you get a chance tp scroll through some DU threads, that they are a party driven by hate and loathing for freedom, individual rights, morality, or any other silly old dusty remnant of "Western Civilization."
If it's a Western idea, and it doesn't have Marx stamped all over it, they aren't interested.
No, the Democrats, like any other addicts hooked on dangerous, corrosive stuff, will have to hit rock bottom before they even begin to consider the error of their ways.
But hitting rock bottom oftens means dying or winding up in prison.....metahphorically speaking, of course.
But some of these folks at DU are so far gone into neo-socialist post-modern leftism that there will be no coming back for them, ever.
hillbilly
I'll be honest that I DRTFT up front, but based on the title...
There is hope, and I believe there is hope for everyone.
My mother was a serious anti. If you had talked to her a few years ago, and she'd basically be a straight up Democrat (albeit a moderate Democrat, not stereotypical). Like many in NY, she fears and hates Bush (not related to any gun issues... it's all about the environment, economy, RvW etc etc).
In a backhanded way, Bush has shown her the light as to the purpose of the second amendment.
[----DISCLAIMER----]
Neither I nor she believes our current administration nearly as bad as what would be required to justify a revolution or anything like that, this is a theory exercise... so there
[/----DISCLAIMER----]
She can see after 2000 and again this year that a government she and a good number of citizens doesnt agree with can come to power given our current (or any) system. She now basically supports the second amendment by realizing it for what it is, a doomsday clause... saying we will not lay down and be sheeple while someone (anyone) takes our country away from us. It is this understanding that reversed her position on the AWB and (i hope in time) will reverse her positions on other forms of gun control. (The biggest victory in this for me is she understands how registration is bad, cause if the government knows where the guns are, then they can, in theory, collect them)
If she can be shown the light, I am willing to bet that 99% of Democrats can see it too.
/Arcli9ht
//Feinstein, Kennedy + pals are beyond hope IMO
There is hope, and I believe there is hope for everyone.
My mother was a serious anti. If you had talked to her a few years ago, and she'd basically be a straight up Democrat (albeit a moderate Democrat, not stereotypical). Like many in NY, she fears and hates Bush (not related to any gun issues... it's all about the environment, economy, RvW etc etc).
In a backhanded way, Bush has shown her the light as to the purpose of the second amendment.
[----DISCLAIMER----]
Neither I nor she believes our current administration nearly as bad as what would be required to justify a revolution or anything like that, this is a theory exercise... so there
[/----DISCLAIMER----]
She can see after 2000 and again this year that a government she and a good number of citizens doesnt agree with can come to power given our current (or any) system. She now basically supports the second amendment by realizing it for what it is, a doomsday clause... saying we will not lay down and be sheeple while someone (anyone) takes our country away from us. It is this understanding that reversed her position on the AWB and (i hope in time) will reverse her positions on other forms of gun control. (The biggest victory in this for me is she understands how registration is bad, cause if the government knows where the guns are, then they can, in theory, collect them)
If she can be shown the light, I am willing to bet that 99% of Democrats can see it too.
/Arcli9ht
//Feinstein, Kennedy + pals are beyond hope IMO
RW_Reagan
Member
Has this election knocked some Democrats to their senses re: gun control?
your assuming they have senses to be knocked back to obviously.
your assuming they have senses to be knocked back to obviously.
Blackcloud6
Member
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Even with the AWB susnset, gun control did not become an issue in this campaign. The Dems will not change, but the guncontrol beast will remain dormant for a few years until it looks good for the bitch to come into heat once again.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
That Kerry creature's goose has been well and truly cooked by America.
If the leftist extremists were capable of learning from past mistakes, they'd accept reality for what it is, grow up, and become Libertarians and Republicans.
They'll continue to screech about so-called "gun control" the same way that Kerry creature continued to screech about the Viet Nam War. They're living decades behind the present.
Some people spend their entire lives looking backward.
If the leftist extremists were capable of learning from past mistakes, they'd accept reality for what it is, grow up, and become Libertarians and Republicans.
They'll continue to screech about so-called "gun control" the same way that Kerry creature continued to screech about the Viet Nam War. They're living decades behind the present.
Some people spend their entire lives looking backward.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I don't see much connection between DU and the Average Joe SixPack Democrat. And, really, little between Ol' Joe and the national-level "leadership", for that matter.
I see some really good people in the Democratic Party at the local level. Heck, I voted for a couple in local, county races. But they'd rarely have much of a chance to move up to the state legislatures or to Congress. Those are the arenas more likely to see the ultra-leftist Dems win office, with the help of the party machinery.
Art
I see some really good people in the Democratic Party at the local level. Heck, I voted for a couple in local, county races. But they'd rarely have much of a chance to move up to the state legislatures or to Congress. Those are the arenas more likely to see the ultra-leftist Dems win office, with the help of the party machinery.
Art
mons meg
Member
Art, as always, is a voice of reason.
Take Oklahoma. Until yesterday, the State House and Senate were both majority Democratic. Yet we passed Texas-style CCW and "go red" in most Presidential elections. Most OK Congressmen who are Democratic have still gotten A's and B's from the NRA...
My wife's whole family have D's on their voter cards, and are neutral on the gun issue....which I work on patiently, taking my time. It's good for them to see that I like guns, and hey I'm not a "militia wacko" type. (no offense to any actual militia wackos). Most of them were in the ABB camp, instead of pro-Kerry...they're not "California" Democrats.
So all the comments about Democrats, craps, etc...really make me wonder. I mean, are we trying to make a point, or are we trying to make noise?
Take Oklahoma. Until yesterday, the State House and Senate were both majority Democratic. Yet we passed Texas-style CCW and "go red" in most Presidential elections. Most OK Congressmen who are Democratic have still gotten A's and B's from the NRA...
My wife's whole family have D's on their voter cards, and are neutral on the gun issue....which I work on patiently, taking my time. It's good for them to see that I like guns, and hey I'm not a "militia wacko" type. (no offense to any actual militia wackos). Most of them were in the ABB camp, instead of pro-Kerry...they're not "California" Democrats.
So all the comments about Democrats, craps, etc...really make me wonder. I mean, are we trying to make a point, or are we trying to make noise?
RealGun
Member
There is no way for them to evolve in the Senate very noticably because they vote as a block, yea or nay, no in between with rare exception. The House is more independent, so that suggests Senate reform is in order. There should be no mention of bipartisanship except when passing budgets. At other times it is nonsense. Everything else is them vs. us with no opening for conscience or independence. If they would play down the dominance and privileges of the majority party, there could be less obstructionism as the minority's only recourse to being bullied and having no crossover votes for their issues pro or con.
carp killer
Member
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If the Democrats would just get off this damn obsession that guns cause crime, they would win. Of course they would have to prove a change of heart by their votes on gun legislation. Kerry was a fool and looked pretty stupid in cammo.
This is what I fear too. The liberals will simply ignore the gun control stance in their debates (knowing that an anti-gun stand might prevent them from getting in office). Once they are in office, their true colors will show and they will attempt to restrict or ban our gun rights. Ole Slick Willie is an example of this behavior.
There use to be (maybe still is) a small faction of the Democratic party that is pro-gun, calling themselves something like "Democrats for the Second Admendment". They use to have a website dedicated to their cause...I wonder if they still exist? But, this is the exception rather than the rule. Most liberals I know HATE guns and believe that civilians should be unarmed and defenseless.
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