so i am curious, why is it that if i order primers from one of the online web stores (aka, midway usa, graffs, natchez, etc.) i have to pay a $27.50 haz mat fee plus shipping. but if i win an auction at gun broker.com, all i have to pay is the shipping charges?
Haz Mat ?
- Thread starter x_wrench
- Start date
- Status
Jim Watson
Member
Probably because the auction seller does not identify the contents of his package.
WYOMan
Member
Because primers are included in the USDOT haz-mat tables as a regulated explosive material. And just something to consider, it is illegal to ship regulated materials without proper markings, warning labels, and paperwork. I drive a truck, so I've had to deal with this crud for a long time.
mgkdrgn
Member
Because the person on the other end of the auction is doesn't know they are committing a felony ... or they are a boob.
Probably going to mail them to you too I'll bet!
oneounceload
member
Some would say yes - you can rattle some ammo around and typically nothing happens - do that with loose primers and they explode. Most primers I have seen now come packaged in a way they can't hit each other - a good thing; whether that should mean declassifying them due to less potential danger - not my call
MachIVshooter
Member
I believe it is because the explosive compound is exposed when shipping just primers. A loaded cartridge can roll through flames and nothing happens, but the tiniest single spark can ignite the exposed primer compound on contact.
ny32182
Member
Primers especially (and powder too) are definitely more "dangerous" when not loaded in ammo.
Primers in quantity are nothing to play with. They have to be stored properly and handled carefully. Loaded ammo is virtually indestructible by comparison.
I've never popped one while loading, but many people have. If a full tube of them lights up the results are impressive, and that is just 100 of them, max. They come 5000 to a case. There is a reason each one is individually packaged.
Primers in quantity are nothing to play with. They have to be stored properly and handled carefully. Loaded ammo is virtually indestructible by comparison.
I've never popped one while loading, but many people have. If a full tube of them lights up the results are impressive, and that is just 100 of them, max. They come 5000 to a case. There is a reason each one is individually packaged.
Okay thanks guys. I just figured the gov't wouldn't care if it is loaded in a case or not...if it still falls under the definition of a regulated explosive material. Just because it is more inert, I didn't think would matter. Otherwise it is like sticking dynamite in a sealed container and saying it is now safe and you don't have to pay a haz mat fee. Okay bad example I know, but you know what I mean.
I knew primers were more volatile than loaded ammo, but didn't know they were THAT bad. Seeing as how I am going to start reloading soon...I figured I'd ask. Don't want any kabooms!
Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Please resume your regularly scheduled programming.
I knew primers were more volatile than loaded ammo, but didn't know they were THAT bad. Seeing as how I am going to start reloading soon...I figured I'd ask. Don't want any kabooms!
Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Please resume your regularly scheduled programming.
ny32182
Member
To avoid kaboom, the best advice is don't force it. If your primer isn't going in for whatever reason, it is a lot better idea to figure out why, and/or discard the offending case than to force it and possibly blow the entire stack. Google up some pics... it will put holes in your ceiling if you do it wrong.
Wear eye pro.
Wear eye pro.
Tinpig
Member
Primers that explode in their shell casings give off a lot of flame, smoke, and noise for such tiny things.
When they explode out of their shell casings, they give off the flame, smoke, and noise, plus the cup and anvil become shrapnel.
When I was a kid my Dad let some off for me when he caught me taking the powder out of his shotgun shells and discarding the live primered hulls in the trash he burned. I learned to respect primers.
He wasn't too happy about the powder, either.
Tinpig
When they explode out of their shell casings, they give off the flame, smoke, and noise, plus the cup and anvil become shrapnel.
When I was a kid my Dad let some off for me when he caught me taking the powder out of his shotgun shells and discarding the live primered hulls in the trash he burned. I learned to respect primers.
He wasn't too happy about the powder, either.
Tinpig
Individuals either don't know the law or don't care that they could cause a fire/explosion while the company does.
Shadow 7D
Member
Short is a person shipping with out declaring is willing to allow you and himself to pay the feds something in the order of $20,000-$250,000 dollars, declaring the shipment means it ships as Hasmat under CFR49, not, well the DOT will fine the carrier, who, per tariff will pass the fine on to you, and will offer YOU to DOT to prosecute. FedEx ain't gonna go to the slammer or loose money for you illegal action.
thanks, that is EXACTLY what i wanted to know. i was not sure if an individual maybe did not have to declare, or if the persons were not declaring like they should. now i know. i will just stick to going to a store to buy them. that way they can worry about the haz mat fee. i know i am paying for it in the price of the primers. it looks to me like you would have to buy a massive amount of primers in order for it to be beneficial financially. and i do not use enough at one time to order that many.
ny32182
Member
You will pay a separate "hazmat" line item of $27.50 from a retailer, for any weight of hazmat components under 50lb.
"Massive amount" is subjective, and your local prices might vary, but around here, powder and primers cost almost twice as much in a store as they do online. You don't have to buy a whole lot to break even. The more you buy, the better the price per unit, with the flat hazmat fee. Get some buddies together and buy as much as possible on one order, and you will get the best price you can.
One thing I got burned on once; I ordered powder and primers on the same ticket from Midway. They drop shipped the powder from the mfg, and shipped the primers from their warehouse, therefore dinging me for two hazmats. I don't know if I was asleep at the wheel ordering and missed it, or what, but I did NOT know that was going to happen when I clicked the order button. It might be worth checking if you are going to order from Midway. I've done the same kind of order from other major vendors and that has never happened.
"Massive amount" is subjective, and your local prices might vary, but around here, powder and primers cost almost twice as much in a store as they do online. You don't have to buy a whole lot to break even. The more you buy, the better the price per unit, with the flat hazmat fee. Get some buddies together and buy as much as possible on one order, and you will get the best price you can.
One thing I got burned on once; I ordered powder and primers on the same ticket from Midway. They drop shipped the powder from the mfg, and shipped the primers from their warehouse, therefore dinging me for two hazmats. I don't know if I was asleep at the wheel ordering and missed it, or what, but I did NOT know that was going to happen when I clicked the order button. It might be worth checking if you are going to order from Midway. I've done the same kind of order from other major vendors and that has never happened.
We're fortunate to have a local gun shop that deals extensively in reloading supplies (it's actually a pawn shop, but half the dang store is brass, bullets, hulls, powders, and primers).
The owner sends a truck down to Quincy, IL twice a month to pick up supplies directly.
When I had my FFL, we ordered most of the reloading stuff from a distributor in southern Illinois. They had a dedicated semi-truck route, so we never had to worry about hazmat fees.
Unless your LGS is WAY the hell out in the boonies, if they're charging excessive fees on reloading components to justify "hazmat shipping" they are just scalping you. Plain and simple.
The owner sends a truck down to Quincy, IL twice a month to pick up supplies directly.
When I had my FFL, we ordered most of the reloading stuff from a distributor in southern Illinois. They had a dedicated semi-truck route, so we never had to worry about hazmat fees.
Unless your LGS is WAY the hell out in the boonies, if they're charging excessive fees on reloading components to justify "hazmat shipping" they are just scalping you. Plain and simple.
oneounceload
member
Midway drop ships powder NOT from the maker, but another internet wholesale supplier called Powder Valley, who has better prices than Midway and is one of the best sources for reloading supplies.
Not necessarily - the shipping costs to them could also be a lot higher than someone who is NOT "out in the boonies". There is no free lunch.
bergmen
Member.
That's what I do. I don't use many at one time either but stored properly, they will last a long, long time. Same for powder.
Dan
EOD Guy
Member
Loaded ammunition is also a Division 1.4S explosive material. There is a packaging exception that allows packages less than 30 kgs (66 pounds) to be reclassed as ORM-D. While still a hazardous material, ORM-D materials are excepted from most of the marking, labeling, and shipping paper requirements in the regulation. For that reason, a hazmat charge is not usually assessed on ORM-D shipments. Hazmat charges are assessed to cover the extra work required to process a hazmat shipment.
Primers are explosive material and powder is a flammable solid. There are no packaging exceptions allowing them to be reclassed. That's why you have to pay a hazmat charge.
Primers are explosive material and powder is a flammable solid. There are no packaging exceptions allowing them to be reclassed. That's why you have to pay a hazmat charge.
I made my first reloading component order with Powder Valley. 12 lbs of powder and 6,000 primers...one hazmat fee and one shipping fee. Very reasonable.
i can buy most of my stuff locally (well, if you call 40 miles one way local) at a gun shop for pretty good prices. the owner is a true enthusiast, and does everything possible to promote the sport. last primers i bought (2 weeks ago) were @ $29.00 / 1000 and most powder is around $22.00 a pound. his price on bullets is so close to midways, i do not even bother ordering any bullets from them unless they have blems. some of the shops i have been to recently have wanted $40-50.00 / 1000, which to me is highway robbery. i am in a bit of a quandary though, as one primer i need, my "local" gun shop does not carry. so i am faced with either reworking all my loads, paying highway robbery prices, or buying a very large order online, to try to offset the haz mat charge. 1000 of the primers i need (cci lg rifle magnum), which i only use in one rifle, will last me about 3 years. i have tried using std cci lg rifle primers, but i can actually feel the delay from the time the firing pin drops, till ignition. and that is in 80 degree heat. i would not want that in sub zero weather when i have a nice 8 point all lined up.
oneounceload
member
Why don't you just ask your guy to order some in?
Stores do that all the time - you might have to wait until he places his next order, but then you might save some money
Thee are other alternatives to CCI LRM as well
Stores do that all the time - you might have to wait until he places his next order, but then you might save some money
Thee are other alternatives to CCI LRM as well
Shadow 7D
Member
^^^^^^^^^^
READ THIS AGAIN
don't complain, it's makes sense not to ship stuff that explodes and the stuff it sets on fire in the same load, so much so, that it's against the LAW to ship them together (packaging catagories).
Take some time to look at CFR 49, you can find it online, and it's worth the read if you are going to ship stuff.
oneounceload
member
If you are saying thst powder and primers cannot be shipped together, you are incorrect - you can have both shipped in one package for one hazmat fee
- Status
