Help choosing a 9mm 1911 for USPSA shooting

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And a Glock is more than accurate enough for USPSA, you don't have to shoot .3" groups at 25 yards. Your gun will shoot worlds better than you will for.......probably several years.
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I would usually agree with you, however I saw Bremainn shoot and she is good, really good.
In fact I would appreciate if you guys could avoid suggesting that she tries a revolver as I do not want her shooting against me in the same division...

Kate, I'm sending you a PM with Tyrone's email and phone #.
 
Well I appreciate the compliment Daniel, but I still have a long ways to go. I definitely got a little sloppy towards the end, but hey, I was having fun. That's what counts! ;)
 
If you have your heart set on a 9mm, 1911, get it and shoot it in "single stack" division.
Because you are already shooting "minor" you can use 10 round mags, which is an advantage over "major" which only allows 8 round mags.
If you shoot all A-zone hits, you won't be penalized for shooting minor.
 
For USPSA single stack division a 9mm can be very competitive. You are able to run 10 rounds for minor (9mm or 38 super) vs. 8 rounds for major (40 S&W or 45 ACP). Those two extra rounds can come in handy on a stage.

For guns, I would seriously look at getting a STI Trojan in 9mm.

For mags you can use 38 Super 10 round mags. If you reload yourself you can load the 9mm a little longer to be more reliable in the mags.

But as someone stated above start with what you have and see for yourself what others are using. USPSA shooters are generally very friendly and like to show off their toys. It is a lot better to learn the sport before you buy a new blaster than buying the gun first. Too many shooters buy a gun and find out it is not really what they want or need to compete.

What handguns do you have now?
 
I didn't catch the rationale for buying 2 guns? unless you want to start collecting, I'd advise against it. For competition it's much better to just stick with one. Believe me.

There's likely nothing wrong with the glock, and it has to do with learning and modding that trigger. You'll see them in open class and Limited and production ... they are definitely competition worthy. There are limitless supplies of holsters and mag holders so easy to pick up something new or used. And mags are dirt cheap.

See where I'm leaning? :)

The Para P16 can be tweaked to be competitive in the limited division, but everything will be more expensive ... pistol, magwells, magazines are all noticably more. Make sure you are dead set on a metal gun before you go this route.

One last thought, you might limit your search to makes/models that have a .22 conversion kit available?

One last last thought .. as it seems you stumbled onto USPSA, you owe it to yourself to see if there are any IDPA clubs where you live. Very similar in some ways and pretty different in other ways. IDPA has a place to shoot the 1911 in 9mm.

You can do things your own way, but many folks who are starting out do so in IDPA or in USPSA production division.

ETA, look around in this forum and you'll see vid's by yar. He shoot's a glock in the limited division.
 
So, just to be straight in USPSA Competitive shooting...

These all fall under MAJOR comp:
Limited 10 (.40 min. for MAJOR)
Limited (.40 min. for MAJOR)
and Open (pretty much anything goes)

And production falls under MINOR competition,
With a limit of 10 rounds max in mag?

To sum things up, 9mm can be shot in ALL divisions, but to COMPETE in Limited and Limited 10 MAJOR you must use .40 and up?

Also to be clear, what exactly does Major and Minor mean? Is it basically like baseball? Semi pro and pro? Or is it simply caliber?

Probably a dumb question: In Production as far as I can tell Single Action Pistols are not allowed. First shot must be double action. Not knowing much about the "lingo" of gun workings and definitions, would someone mind naming a few SA pistols just so I can get an idea of what that means?

I think I am getting it. The more I read, the more I ask questions and the more I see, the more I learn! Thanks for putting up with me. I'll be out of your hair soon, I hope!
 
I'm going to ignore one aspect of your criteria..... the 1911 part.


Get a CZ 75B or 75BD. You can shoot limited with the 75B loaded to capacity and cocked and locked, or you can shoot production with the 75BD loaded to 10 rounds.

You are getting into a platform designed for the 9mm, and for substantially less money than those Kimber 1911s you are looking at. The ergonomics of the CZ 75 are incredible, even more svelte than the 1911 in the hand. The CZ 'fits' the hand.

Triggers come from the factory less than stellar. Mine smoothed out with lots of shooting, and lots more dryfire practice. I went to a slightly lighter mainspring from Wollf Gunsprings, and it is fantastic in both DA and SA.

Incredible reliability. Most of the guns I have seen at our USPSA shoots are reliable. I have seen glocks go down because of mag failures. It was not a design flaw... the mag was full of mud and grit from a muddy 3 gun match at CMMG.

I have seen a few failures in an XD 40, but I think it was the guy's reloads.

My CZ has been VERY reliable.


I eliminated the magazine brake by removing it, straightening it, and reinstalling it. My mags now drop free... in fact they squirt out of the gun with gusto.



You don't need adjustable sights for USPSA. Especially on cardboard sights. The toughest accuracy requirements are racks of steel and occasional forced headshots. Most guns come with fixed sights adjusted well enough to shoot USPSA just fine. If they need to be adjusted, it is a one time thing.



Get yourself some Mec-Gar's and a CZ... you will be into the game and having fun for a lot less coin than a pricey 1911.


The guys out there shooting glocks are having just as much fun as the guys shooting STIs... probably more fun because of fewer magazine changes. ;)
 
Don't worry about making major.

Major and minor is not a big deal unless you are trying to win competitions.


Major and minor hits on target are scored the same in the A zone.

If you start to drop shots into the C and D zones then major scores one more point per hit than minor.

Get into the game and have fun and learn.....

Once you get some practice in, decide if it is worth it to you to shoot major.


If you make all your shots Alpha... you won't need to shoot major. ;)
 
Major and minor are power factors.


You can make major with hot 9mm calibers like 9x23 (I don't think there is a bullet diameter restriction on major being .40+).

If you take one to a match, and want to shoot major, they will chrono some of your loads.


Don't worry about it too much. Getting into the game and having fun is more important initially than shooting major.

You can shoot in all divisions with a 9mm. The only difference is scoring. You get fewer points for shots you drop outside the A zone if you are shooting minor.
 
You can make major with hot 9mm calibers like 9x23
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Limited and L10 require a minimum of .40 to make major, so 9x23 (or 38 super and variants, or 9mm loaded major) can only be major in Open Division. So, you can shoot these 9mm bullets and make major, but you will be competing against the race guns with optics, and making your own is required (not many factory ammo loads make Major with 9mm bullets).

Power factor (PF) = bullet weight x velocity / 1000 (grains x fps /1000).

124 grain bullet @ 1100 fps /1000 = 136.4

So, is that enough minutiae for USPSA today? :)

Lee
 
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Minor in a major world can hurt. That 1 point difference is 20% in target score. You can hose the head with major and get at least 80% available points, minor you better whack the A box. Good clubs I shoot at regularly feature cruel things like 20 yard head shots and 35 yd US poppers.

ipsctarg.gif


Note my cool image source. ;)
 
USPSA has a new SINGLE STACK division set aside for steel, single stack 1911s.

A 9mm 1911 makes a great IDPA gun for the ESP division. I use my 9mm STI Trojan.

In USPSA, for single stack division and others, you must have a >=.40 to make major. The scoring hurts when shooting minor to compete with others shooting major. In single stack division, you are allowed an extra 2 rounds for minor. So minor allows a 10rd mag vs 8rds for major which might give you some competitive advantage. Most of us haven't found it and shoot major.

A 1911 in 9mm is the perfect IDPA ESP gun but doesn't really have a place in USPSA. It isn't production and will be hurt by minor scoring in both LIMITED 10 and SINGLE STACK.

Try www.brianenos.com forums for more specific competition advice.
 
Uspsa Divisions



SCORING
bullet weight x velocity /1000 = Power Factor
MAJOR > 165PF
MINOR < 165PF but at least 125PF


DIVISIONS:

PRODUCTION
- most double action service pistols (Like SSP in IDPA)
Dominated by Glock 17/34s, M&Ps, CZ75s/SP01.
Everything scored minor regardless of PF.
Holster restrictions exclude game-only rigs.
10RDs in mags only.


SINGLE STACK
steel single stack 1911s. (close to CDP in IDPA)
Dominated by .45acp 1911s.
10rd for MINOR, 8rds for MAJOR
Holster restrictions exclude game-only rigs.



LIMITED 10
just about anything goes except optics.
10RD limit in any mag.
Dominated by STI/SVI 2011s and GLOCK 35s and some 1911 single stacks running 10rd CMC PowerMag's
MAJOR must be .40 or bigger.
Gamey CR Speed holsters that allow a scoop-like draw allowed.


LIMITED
just about anything goes except optics.
Dominated by 21+rd STI/SVI 2011s and GLOCK 35s and some 1911 single stacks running 10rd CMC PowerMag's
MAJOR must be .40 or bigger.
Gamey CR Speed holsters that allow a scoop-like draw allowed.
Mags limited to 140mm long.


OPEN
nearly anything goes including optics and major PF 9mm.
Dominated by red-dotted 38super and 9mm major guns with compensators and near 30rd mags up 170mm. Typically a $3000+ rig.
Gamey CR Speed holsters that allow a scoop-like draw allowed.


​
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​
 
Lots of stuff to keep track of, isn't it!

You asked for SA examples.

Any gun designed to only be carried "cocked and locked". Examples are the 1911 and browning hipower. It is possible to find versions of other pistols with a single action only mechanism (I.E. CZ 75 SA).

There are guns which can be carried either cocked and locked, or double action first shot. These will work for USPSA production as long as they start decocked/hammer down (thereby needing a double action first shot).

The LDA trigger from Para is a way to get the ergonomics of the 1911 with a trigger that allows it to be used in production. I believe the LDA was developed so Para would have a gun that could work in IDPA's SSP, USPSA's production (I'm not aware of the exact chronology) and more importantly that police could chose. I understand that police are being required to chose pistols that aren't carried cocked and locked.
 
Update

So here is an update.

I think I have decided to just get a Glock TYPE 9mm pistol, for Production. NOT a Glock, but similar. IDEAS? Remember, it must be ALL metal. I will get a 1911 .45ACP also to satisfy my 1911 kick. Probably a SA Loaded model.

I'll go with which ever one comes along first at a better deal. I am already buying the reloading components for .45 anyway. Hopefully it REALLY IS cheaper to reload.


Can this be used in production? It is advertised more for IPCS.
SIG P226 Competition Is this pistol somewhere around $1,500? If so, there is no way.:what:

I like Para, but they don't have any non-1911 9mms for comp. :(

I like this CZ 75-SP01 , but I want adjustable sights. AND stainless. ALSO, I want the Hogue type rubber grips for Springfield 1911s w/finger grooves, but I haven't found anyone making them for the CZ. Anyone know if they do? :(
 
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That Sig X5 Competition is a gun without a division. Too heavy for IDPA, not production legal in USPSA and would be at both a capacity disadvantage & minor PF in limited division.

The CZ SP01 is USPSA Production legal, with some lightening, it is IDPA SSP legal. Most local matches will not split hairs and will let you shoot it how it comes. I like mine although I haven't but my STI Trojan down long enough to use the SP01 for more than 2 or 3 matches:
http://www.czshooters.com/f/viewtopic.php?t=1310
A CZ75-SP01 with Adj Sites, competition hammer (for smoother trigger)
sp01_lpa_lrg.jpg

CZSP01Custom.jpg


A CZ75 is another choice, available in stainless if you like. Adjustable sites are available although they really aren't required for USPSA/IDPA shooting.
http://www.cz-usa.com/products_handguns.php
main072.png
 
I am so lost. Someone, PLEASE name a couple of good 9MM pistols that I could use for USPSA that are ALL METAL! Not knowing what I am doing and trying to figure all this out just gets me more and more confused.

I need an ALL METAL, full sized 9mm, High capacity if possible, for not more than $600 if possible, that can be shot in USPSA matches.

I have decided to skip the whole 1911 9mm thing and just go for something I can shoot in Production.

I'll get the .45ACP to go in the other categories. I've pretty much decided on a SA Loaded for that.
 
I just found this USPSA pistols for Production list. As I have said, I really want an all metal full size (5"), so keeping that in mind which might be the best on this list?

Production gun list.

CZ was one of my favs. I may end up going with one, but I want to make sure I have covered all of my bases.

I promise I will quit with the questions... ;)
 
Brenainn,
The CZ is pretty much your only option. Sigs are nice and can be found at a decent price but the grip frame is quite large and it's a long reach to the trigger.
There's also the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness line, pretty much same as a CZ but with a slightly larger frame as they discontinued the 9mm frame.
I know you said all metal but you really have to try the Springfield XD9.
The grip frame is amazingly comfortable for a double stack gun and they are just totally reliable. "On target", the indoor range in Asheville, has one for rent, definitely worth a trip for you.

Edit: I'm an idiot, forgot the Berreta 92... That's another option, affordable too.

Edit II: A really cheap way to start would be a S&W 59 series, stainless, hi-cap, reliable, cheap mags, inexpensive gun and you can even get them with adjustable sights. Not the best trigger though...
 
I think your choice of sp01 is excellent!

You said

"I like this CZ 75-SP01 , but I want adjustable sights. AND stainless. ALSO, I want the Hogue type rubber grips for Springfield 1911s w/finger grooves, but I haven't found anyone making them for the CZ. Anyone know if they do?"

Adj sights aren't really needed, and could be added later.

I'd guess that you could get a generic sized finger groove hogue grip ... but most people end up with stippling or skateboard tape.

Why stainless? Stainless can rust, and a light wipe down with clp will keep your finish fine in either metal...

As for Para's ... Yea, it has to be an LDA. Great choice too, IMO.
 
:banghead: I posted that production gun list way back at the front of this. :D

Any reason you don't like the Para LDA? 1911ish, 9mm, good for production.

If you're not going there and want all metal I third the CZ recommendation. Might be able to find a used one and get all your holsters. pouches, and spare mags for less than 600.

Why the all steel? Personal preference? As a Glock guy I can say they are lightweight but the flexi-flyer frame soaks up recoil nice.
 
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