I think the tens of thousands of Russian and German troops who died in the brutal street to street, house to house, room to room fighting might have a different opinion.
[moderator hat on] Let's not.[/moderator hat on]
Help me justify a rifle
- Thread starter db4570
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I think the tens of thousands of Russian and German troops who died in the brutal street to street, house to house, room to room fighting might have a different opinion.
[moderator hat on] Let's not.[/moderator hat on]
I don't like bolt-action rifles, never have, the actions are clumsy to me. The only reason I ever even owned one was because it was the status quo hunting rifle. I recently sold my bolt, a Remmy 700 in .30-06 and am going to rely solely on my scoped M1A for my do-it-all long ranger. Yeah, it's a little heavy, ok, it's even heavier and more awkward scoped. But a semi-auto box fed .308 rifle is the cat's meow in my book and there's not too many niches it can't fill.
TN allows the use of semi's for big game hunting which I could use it for. Also if there were a SHTF scenario I could use it to determine the intentions of "suspicious" loiterers and act immediately if necessary from distance.
My other long guns are a Marlin 60, SLR-95, Rem 870 and M1 Garand. The only one that's really out of place would be the Garand for filling any particular niche in my collection.
In reality though, the rifle you currently own would probably suffice for probably 99.9% of any situations perceived or otherwise. But there's always the "want factor".
TN allows the use of semi's for big game hunting which I could use it for. Also if there were a SHTF scenario I could use it to determine the intentions of "suspicious" loiterers and act immediately if necessary from distance.
My other long guns are a Marlin 60, SLR-95, Rem 870 and M1 Garand. The only one that's really out of place would be the Garand for filling any particular niche in my collection.
In reality though, the rifle you currently own would probably suffice for probably 99.9% of any situations perceived or otherwise. But there's always the "want factor".
Man! This is NO help!
It’s like I have a little angel on one shoulder, saying things like Clint C: “Your bolt rifle is plenty for your scenarios, and in my opinion is better than a semi.”
And a little devil on the other, we’ll call him CrankyOldGuy, whispering such temptations as: “1.) There is an empty spot in my gunsafe and the other firearms are lonely. 2.) I can extend the useful life of my other rifles by buying another one to shoot and spreading out my rounds fired among several long guns.”…etc… Pure evil genius.
Seriously, though, this has become a good thread thanks to everyone’s very useful input.
Trying to imagine shooting in self defense at over 100 yards is very difficult.
But last night I was going over in my head possible SHTF situations, and was starting to convince myself to really start preparing now, as it seems more likely than I had originally thought.
I'm waiting to get some prices on AR-10 stuff from a "kitchen table" FFL I know, so we'll see what I think after that. Also, I have an old M1 Carbine that I'm thinking of selling, so that will help me justify it, too.
David
It’s like I have a little angel on one shoulder, saying things like Clint C: “Your bolt rifle is plenty for your scenarios, and in my opinion is better than a semi.”
And a little devil on the other, we’ll call him CrankyOldGuy, whispering such temptations as: “1.) There is an empty spot in my gunsafe and the other firearms are lonely. 2.) I can extend the useful life of my other rifles by buying another one to shoot and spreading out my rounds fired among several long guns.”…etc… Pure evil genius.
Seriously, though, this has become a good thread thanks to everyone’s very useful input.
Trying to imagine shooting in self defense at over 100 yards is very difficult.
But last night I was going over in my head possible SHTF situations, and was starting to convince myself to really start preparing now, as it seems more likely than I had originally thought.
I'm waiting to get some prices on AR-10 stuff from a "kitchen table" FFL I know, so we'll see what I think after that. Also, I have an old M1 Carbine that I'm thinking of selling, so that will help me justify it, too.
David
tradja
Member
Glad to help. 
Now that you mention it, if you have an M1 Carbine, you might be all set.
Now that you mention it, if you have an M1 Carbine, you might be all set.
The Deer Hunter
Member
Yeah I see what you're saying. I bought an AR-15 lower because I got all hyped up thinking I needed an AR in case of the same thing. The reality is that most AR-15s are used for target practice, and the other part are used for hunting. There are sure a good amount that also are kept in the house for HD, which is a viable option.
It all comes down to if you
A) have a home defense gun, or a hunting rifle. If you need one, you could justify an AR, but chances are you already have a rifle.
B) If you have the money to sped on something like that. If you have the extra cash for a $900 AR-15, then get one if you want one. You have to spend some money on yourself at times, why not now. After all, personal use is a legitimate justification.
Bringing up my AR lower again.
I bought it last year hoping to slap on an upper. An upper receiver is going to cost $600, taking into account shipping and all that. I am also in college, I have a 17 year old jeep, and I play paintball when I get the chance. As much as I would love to get an upper, I have other interests (and expenses) that I am going to use that $600 first. That is also taking into consideration that I don't shoot as much as I would like too.
So don't ask us to justify a purchase for yourself. Think about this: Are you financially stable enough to be able to afford a luxury like that? What would be the intended purpose of this rifle, and how much would you get to use it?
SHTF Priorities
I'd like to point something out that very few people seem to realize or at least seem to not talk about much regarding SHTF scenarios. I am not an imminent SHTF believer, but I have put together a rough plan in case it does. There is the chance.
When it comes to firearms, other than the gun itself, in a SHTF scenario, you need AMMO...lots of it.
If you are indeed worried about SHTF, then take that few thousand dollars and invest in some ammunition, enough say to keep you in food for a several years? When you consider that the cost of ammunition can quickly exceed the cost of the rifle, weapon choice might learn towards less expensive good quality ammo.
Now that being said, I know the .223 doesn't sound like the best round, but since circumstances aren't necessarily the best when SHTF, then cheap ammo becomes a powerful motivator when you need lots of ammo. In high end calibers, the cost of ammo quickly exceeds the cost of the rifle. 22 cal rimfires having the cheapest ammo gives the best bang for the buck as far as how many thousand rounds you can afford, a .223 is a pretty good break point for ammo cost, and the higher calibers can easily cost more than $2 per round.
Remember the cost of your rifle also includes the cost of the ammunition.
I'd like to point something out that very few people seem to realize or at least seem to not talk about much regarding SHTF scenarios. I am not an imminent SHTF believer, but I have put together a rough plan in case it does. There is the chance.
When it comes to firearms, other than the gun itself, in a SHTF scenario, you need AMMO...lots of it.
If you are indeed worried about SHTF, then take that few thousand dollars and invest in some ammunition, enough say to keep you in food for a several years? When you consider that the cost of ammunition can quickly exceed the cost of the rifle, weapon choice might learn towards less expensive good quality ammo.
Now that being said, I know the .223 doesn't sound like the best round, but since circumstances aren't necessarily the best when SHTF, then cheap ammo becomes a powerful motivator when you need lots of ammo. In high end calibers, the cost of ammo quickly exceeds the cost of the rifle. 22 cal rimfires having the cheapest ammo gives the best bang for the buck as far as how many thousand rounds you can afford, a .223 is a pretty good break point for ammo cost, and the higher calibers can easily cost more than $2 per round.
Remember the cost of your rifle also includes the cost of the ammunition.
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Good points, again.
The M1 Carbine I just never really bonded with. I've had some jamming/stovepiping problems with it, which I'm hoping may have been solved by my tearing it down and completely cleaning/lubing it. I'll have to run it through its paces at the range at soon as the temperature gets back into the positive numbers.
The short-range carbine theme is starting to have a certain appeal, and I've been on a kick the last week or so to find a Kel Tec Sub 2000 that takes my Beretta 92 pistol mags, which seems really cool. Nice compact urban/ suburban 50-100 yard gun.
The whole AR-10 thing may be moot for a while, anyway. The dealer I was thinking of buying one through says they are just plain gone. He watched his wholesaler's inventory of 4000 AR lowers get depleted in 4 days. 1000 a day!
Good point on the ammo. I haven't really shopped for either 223 or 308 extensively, but a quickie comparison doesn't seem to show 308 as being that much more expensive than 223. Maybe +30% or something. Correct me if I'm way off base here. I also don't picture myself having 10,000 rounds on hand, which I know seems like being unprepared to a lot of you.
So, I guess it really does boil down to not really needing one. But, man, I really WANT one. Especially after coming back to them after looking at Kel Tecs! So we'll see what happens.
David
The M1 Carbine I just never really bonded with. I've had some jamming/stovepiping problems with it, which I'm hoping may have been solved by my tearing it down and completely cleaning/lubing it. I'll have to run it through its paces at the range at soon as the temperature gets back into the positive numbers.
The short-range carbine theme is starting to have a certain appeal, and I've been on a kick the last week or so to find a Kel Tec Sub 2000 that takes my Beretta 92 pistol mags, which seems really cool. Nice compact urban/ suburban 50-100 yard gun.
The whole AR-10 thing may be moot for a while, anyway. The dealer I was thinking of buying one through says they are just plain gone. He watched his wholesaler's inventory of 4000 AR lowers get depleted in 4 days. 1000 a day!
Good point on the ammo. I haven't really shopped for either 223 or 308 extensively, but a quickie comparison doesn't seem to show 308 as being that much more expensive than 223. Maybe +30% or something. Correct me if I'm way off base here. I also don't picture myself having 10,000 rounds on hand, which I know seems like being unprepared to a lot of you.
So, I guess it really does boil down to not really needing one. But, man, I really WANT one. Especially after coming back to them after looking at Kel Tecs! So we'll see what happens.
David
I kept seeing this thread and thinking "justify a rifle purchase?"
Rationalize is a better question. How can I rationalize this purchase (because when I get home, I need some facts.) Rationalize means you need more than one excuse. Justify means one excuse will do.
But seriously, without reading the entire thread, I think Mio nailed it in the first response.
robsc
Member
help me justify a rifle.........
.....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
.....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Ignition Override
Member
nadja:
Would somebody explain what "tinfoil' really means?
Is it the 'conspiracy industry'?
db4570: If you want a good, very reliable and low-cost center fire with a combat appearance, you might look at an SKS if not already, or pay more for a Saiga or AK.
The ammo is still fairly cheap and used in so many popular rifles. If wanting to pay almost nothing, and would like a powerful bolt-action
(+ammo at 20 cents/round), which costs less than a .22, then check the MN 44s. If so, look at 'Gunandgame': MN forum.
If you can easily afford one of these types+ lots of ammo, then no justification is needed (married or not), if you really like the gun and can get your money's worth by plinking, 'shredding' insurgent grapefruits etc. You could be the next 'SKS Eddie Van Halen'.
Would somebody explain what "tinfoil' really means?
Is it the 'conspiracy industry'?
db4570: If you want a good, very reliable and low-cost center fire with a combat appearance, you might look at an SKS
if not already, or pay more for a Saiga or AK.The ammo is still fairly cheap and used in so many popular rifles. If wanting to pay almost nothing, and would like a powerful bolt-action
(+ammo at 20 cents/round), which costs less than a .22, then check the MN 44s
. If so, look at 'Gunandgame': MN forum.If you can easily afford one of these types+ lots of ammo, then no justification is needed (married or not), if you really like the gun and can get your money's worth by plinking, 'shredding' insurgent grapefruits etc. You could be the next 'SKS Eddie Van Halen'
.
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C-grunt
Member
There are other SHTF scenarios where a rifle would be usefull. Being in NY a terrorist nuclear attack on NYC would affect you. It would be sheer chaos after that for a while in the area. You might easily need that rifle then.
How about a meteor strike. In the late 1800s/early 1900s, cant remember exactly when, there was a big strike in Syberia. It destroyed a few hundred square miles of forrest up there. God forbid something like that happens again.
How about a tsunami. I saw a show about a fault line in the Mediterranean that could easily cause a large tsunami that would devastate the entire east coast.
Any of these situations would cause massive lawless and millions of casualties. I wouldnt think the government would be to worried about the distance you used as self defense there.
How about a meteor strike. In the late 1800s/early 1900s, cant remember exactly when, there was a big strike in Syberia. It destroyed a few hundred square miles of forrest up there. God forbid something like that happens again.
How about a tsunami. I saw a show about a fault line in the Mediterranean that could easily cause a large tsunami that would devastate the entire east coast.
Any of these situations would cause massive lawless and millions of casualties. I wouldnt think the government would be to worried about the distance you used as self defense there.
Ignition Override
Member
C-grunt:
It was the Tunguska Event in Siberia (1907?). It took researchers years to even reach the remote area.
It was the Tunguska Event in Siberia (1907?). It took researchers years to even reach the remote area.
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