Do I need a defense rifle? Help me decide.

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Maybe some Taliban cells exist in other cities or towns, but not near us.

So far none are reported near the outer edges of the Memphis suburbs, and we hope that they don't bus rioters out here when the next urban insurrection takes place.
 
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What possible scenario would you need a rifle for defending your home? Not for the distance shots as much as for the power above and beyond the level of a pistol. Rifle cartridges can penetrate more obstacles. If what a pistol round fails to defeat is cover, then a rifle turns it into useless concealment. If intruders are attempting to beat down your solid core door in your last ditch room, it's going to be a lot easier to shoot thru it with a rifle round than waste your time waiting for them to succeed to use a pistol round or even worse, shotgun pellets.

Shooting someone through the door is some of the worst advice I've seen. You need to identify your target before taking your shot. Through the door you have less chance to ID your target and less chance to actually hit what you're aiming at.

Reading comprehension seems to be at an all time low on the forums. In the specific example at hand, the intruders are very well identified and obviously not some random passersby who blundered into your house, walked down the hallway, and left you wondering why you have a gun and frightened family behind your closed door.

Worst advice I hear on the internet is to choose low penetration ammo just because it "might" cause someone inadvertent injury. Basically, the proponents would prefer you not be armed with deadly force in handling an intruder.

If someone is beating down my bedroom door having chased me into it, they should expect defensive retrograde fire and then rounds thru the door. They already expressed total disregard for my Constitutional rights by forced entry, display of a lethal threat, and therefore they have NO rights to ANY consideration in the type of ammunition I choose. It will be commercially available 110 gn solid open tip hunting ammo in 6.8SPC.

That is designed to penetrate. So is military ammo. It isn't designed to suddenly fragment and completely lose it's energy. In fact, the whole subject of low penetration ammo is really bogus. What the liability and legal whiners would have you focus on is whether a stray round would possibly strike your neighbors. Considering the assailants aren't using it, the chances are just as likely they would hit you first by shooting thru the door where you couldn't.

Not smart.

Being Infantry and having used firing stakes in my foxhole, I understand lanes of fire and how to assess where to shoot and why. I consider it better advice to shoot, shoot early, and shoot thru whatever is in the way. Will that likely get you into a court of law? Nope. The fictitious subject of home defense doesn't statistically happen to the common homeowner unless 1) they steal drugs or money from their dealer and go into business for themselves, where they can be easily found; 2) harbor a significant other who explicitly describes their former companion as violent and aggressive; 3) vote for liberals who pass anti gun laws in Connecticut. :evil:

The first two are tops on the list of home invasion, but the way things are going, we may see a rise in incidents on the second.

Point being, if you have already chosen to fire your gun in defense of your life, I'm not second guessing that the intruders beating down my bedroom door need further identification.

Shoot thru the door.

In that regard, I see no problem with shooting thru the wall as they seek more cover, to dispense with the silly notion a stick framed home with sheet rock offers any. Further, I will shoot thru the furniture, the roof if necessary (I live in an A-frame,) even my cars if it will get me a hit on whoever is sheltering on the other side of it. I may even skip rounds under it, or down the concrete sidewalls of my basement, same as I was taught in Urban Warfare in the Infantry School and subsequent deployment training in an MP unit.

Come after me and mine, you will get rounds thru whatever is in the way. I'll take crap about the new sofa after the smoke clears. It's under warranty anyway. :rolleyes:

And yes, the VP did say it: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/28/biden-advises-shooting-shotgun-through-door

But, that isn't a defense in court, is it? You make your own choice. Maybe a shotgun won't be enough, the perps got away. So much for low penetration ammo. He didn't hit anything.

In most reports where intruders are hit, the surviving perpetrators are incarcerated, and the homeowner is praised by local law enforcement. That seems to be the majority situation in the three million uses of a gun in self defense nationally. But, you never know. Live in a state or locality where stupidity is the law of the land, and things might be different. You might get sued for using lethal ammunition even tho the perps were similarly armed.

What are the odds of that? If they are that high, do you need to move, or, just give up? People in Connecticut are doing little of the first, and not much of the latter.

Since I can't count on internet advice to defend me in my home, nor any money toward my defense, I will just take the advice of professionals who trained me for 22 years. They paid me to listen, and gave me lot of practice.

I will shoot thru the door, and deal with the replacement costs later.
 
There seems to be a vast amount of worrying about what would, or could happen in court, seems to me? Get to court first to worry!

The first and major obstacle, in a self defense gun fight ... Survive!

Nothing must be in front of that aim, simple, first win! Second say nothing.
 
Maybe some Taliban cells exist in other cities or towns, but not near us.

So far none are reported near the outer edges of the Memphis suburbs, and we hope that they don't bus rioters out here when the next urban insurrection takes place.
If you find yourself facing armed threats in a structure...would it matter if they identified themselves with a group called "Taliban," or "MS-13," or just "desperate druggie?"

How would the distinction change the nature of the risk and the ideal preparation for it?
 
couldbeanyone said
Keep in mind that I have shot over 10,000 38 special rounds this last year and practice double taps out to 20 yards regularly and shoot out to 55 yards as well with a revolver.

The long gun replaced the bow and arrow and the pistol replaced the sword.
Sounds to me like you are good enough with the sword but if you can afford the lever what the heck. You might get a second shot at the perps rear end on the way to the neighbors house.
What 357 lever gun were ya looking at anyways? I may have missed that. I love em.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
Where are you that all of these bad guys want to fire at your house from cover?

Smack dab in the middle of the Hillbilly Nation. I've listed 3 groups that might consider attacking me including one that actually did fire on my cousin's house on the farm we co-own. I have a gang of drug dealers that live maybe 200 yards up the hill from where my house is. I don't currently live there because of a work situation but I will be going back. They don't like me because I took on the role of neighborhood watch which keeps their customers from their prime source of revenue. That and they don't like it that I shoot in my yard. They have threatened me countless times. One of them sneaked in behind my house and fired a shotgun 3 times not more than 20 yards from my back door. They leave dead deer laying at the foot of the hill my house is on. They have put illegal items in my mailbox. Then they decided I didn't need a mailbox and they started tearing it down every time I put one up. The one idiot who shot behind my house threatened to kill me at least 20 times when I caught his sorry rear before he could get away that day.

The third possible shooter is a guy who became a full blown juice junkie. He has some property away from his main farm that can be accessed by going through my farm. He had a buyer for that piece of property who wanted to develop cheap fishing camp sites which really meant a place to come and get as drunk as you possibly can and then drive through the yard of our old house to get out. That's is we would have lost the lawsuit he filed against us wanting access to his property even though he has access to that property but that road goes through his yard. He didn't want that any more than I did. He threatened to not only kill me and my cousin but everyone in my family as well. He confessed to killing one person to my cousin and told him where the body was too. After the flare up the old well where the body was stashed suddenly had a bunch of digging around it and it was on my cousin's property. In other words he moved that body. I know that he cut the throat of another guy. I also know he's the best shooter I've ever seen and I've seen some good ones. But we won the lawsuit and the guy got really sick and lost his farm because of lawyer bills for the manslaughter charge against him that came about as a result of his gf of many years falling out of his Gator and hitting her head on a rock and dying from it. The state charged him because he was drunk out of his mind out driving that thing around. She was too but he owned the Gator and he was driving. That's why he needed the money. And from what I hear he couldn't sell that one piece of property to the developer because of the route the camp site owners would have to take to get to those camp sites.

The thing is some group of con men sold off a whole bunch of very small camp sites around a lake at the end of the road my throat cutting friend lives on. They are exactly the type that would be buying up the other camp sites but the original site was supposed to be developed into this big fishing lake, swimming pool, lodge etc. resort. They sold the lots then ran with the money they got and never spent a dime on the resort.

That's where the ATV'ers come from BTW. It's the same crowd that has been poaching on our land for 25 years. We average about 5 illegal tree stands a year on the farm. Those people have little respect for the law. They thought they were getting something for nothing because you have a large group of drunks and druggies that wanted cheap access to paradise only the only paradise around was my farm. It's like HUD housing without the houses. It's like the projects in the cities without any police anywhere in sight. They won't go into that place. I'd name it but I'd bet some people on this board would recognize where it is and it would just be a big hassle.

I did live in the capital of the Hillbilly Heroin epidemic. People have been killed all around me over that stuff. The whole pill mill idea got started right in the town I lived in before I moved to the country. That doctor got 15 years in prison and a lot of people got a death sentence including some friends and family of mine.

In short it's just about as bad as the crap you see on tv where they portray hillbillies as violent idiots. The only difference is they aren't idiots. One of the biggest organized crime outfits has it's HQ not more than 12 miles from my house. They provided the bulk of cocaine to the east coast during the 1980's. I'm talking tons of it. A motorcycle gang has it's national HQ about 12 miles the other direction. They are a violent bunch too.

I haven't come close to listing all the threats that could come about. We could talk about getting shot by accidentally getting too close to a money crop. That cut throat neighbor threatened to kill my brothers because their dogs treed a coon too close to his patch.

The county where my house is has the 10th highest violent crime rate in the country. Think about that. We're talking places like Detroit and DC. But that list is a few years old. I don't know if it's still true or not. But I know it's still a violent place. And I know how to protect my family. Just to put it plainly they know better than to come to my house because they know I'm heavily armed, I work from home so I'm almost always there, and they know I practice shooting a lot. I don't cause trouble so for the most part they ignore me. But sometimes you have to get involved.
 
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Being Infantry and having used firing stakes in my foxhole, I understand lanes of fire and how to assess where to shoot and why. I consider it better advice to shoot, shoot early, and shoot thru whatever is in the way. Will that likely get you into a court of law? Nope.

THAT's not smart advice IMO.

If you need to shoot through whatever is in the way, there is a good chance you don't know what you're shooting at. AND shooting early can definately get you into a court of law.
 
I think the salient points have been made, hashed over, and restated. This one is getting a little heated and heading into subject matter more appropriate for ST&T.
 
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