Do I need a defense rifle? Help me decide.

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couldbeanyone

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I have been thinking about getting a 357 magnum levergun, but am having trouble coming up with a realistic self defense scenario that is going to really benefit from the use of a rifle. When am I going to have to make that long of a shot?
Maybe my imagination is weak, help me out, give me the ways you envision a rifle helping you in a self defense scenario or time of civil unrest.
 
It's a helluva lot easier to hit things accurately and quickly at 20+ yards with a rifle than with a handgun. Handguns are best suited for daily carry, or very close quarters like in the hallways and stairs of a house.
 
From time to time Gunsite runs classes on defensive home defense with a levergun. Ed Head claims the levergun is a very effective HD weapon, better than a handgun.

My first line HD gun is a short barrel shotgun but if I didn't have one my Marlin in .357 Magnum would be a good choice. Remember, you have 10+1 rounds of .357 Magnum on tap with little to no felt recoil to deal with.
 
I know that a rifle is more powerful and potentially more accurate and easier to hit with. But what is the scenario in which I am going to make this longer shot and am actually going to have the rifle with me?
Keep in mind that I have shot over 10,000 38 special rounds this last year and practice double taps out to 20 yards regularly and shoot out to 55 yards as well with a revolver. Almost all of this practice is in IDPA type scenarios. I'm really not sure I can run, and get hits with a levergun faster at 25 yards.
clearcut, you you could be right about that gun.:rolleyes:
 
Need to be careful about taking long shots at bad guys with either a handgun OR rifle. "Imminent threat". But if you have a hallway in your house that's 50 yards long, you can probably afford armed security.
 
It's easier to aim and shoot with a stock than without (unless you have a LOT of practice with handguns and very little experience with long guns). You also have more energy going into the bullet than you would out of a pistol round, which translates into greater expansion and possibly greater penetration (depending on a number of factors). Using a 16" levergun instead of a 4" revolver can make a difference of 400-700 FPS.

Remember, just because it works better than a handgun at 100 yards, doesn't mean it works worse at 10 yards. Your handgun will do the job, sure, but even at short distances the long gun is better.

Personally, when I think of the perfect HD weapon, I think of a "modern musket"; something like an AR-15, AK, or similar box-fed semi-automatic rifle using an intermediate cartridge. This has numerous advantages over both handguns and leverguns. However, if your choice is between a levergun and a handgun, I'd rather have the levergun.
 
Long guns points better. It depends on where you are, what your house, yard or building is like and what ranges you need to protect. A rifle makes a better club too.
 
Do you want one?
Can you afford one?
If you answered yes to both, I'd be hard pressed to make an argument against.

Those are the easy questions to answer IMO......picking/building the rifle is where I found it gets complicated...lots of options out there.

A pistol is used to fight your way to a rifle, so the saying goes. You most likely won't find yourself in that situation, but if you don't have a rifle, how will you fight your way to it? Lol
 
In the days of hi power cartridges, I think people seriously underestimate the effectiveness of pistol caliber carbines.

Now, I would never argue that a 16" .357 lever gun is going have near the stopping power, or fire rate of an AR15 but there are other considerations such as the DB level of each weapon etc.

One huge selling factor for me is that I own .38 and .357 revolvers as well as lever actions. It is really nice to have interchangeable ammo for all of them. It is also dirt cheap to reload .357 or .38. The longer barrel, in my experience, tends to add an additional 200-400fps to whatever round you are using vs the revolver which adds pretty significant damage to the target. For ranges less than 100 Yards, they make great hunting rifles and, frankly, they are just a lot of fun to shoot.

In a defensive situation, both have a proven track record of stopping bad guys
 
d2wing, I live in a nice neighborhood, in Oklahoma, in a 2600 square foot house. It is about 100 ft to my neighbors house.
silicosys4, I can afford one, I think I might want one, but is there a need for one?
 
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d2wing, I live in a nice neighborhood, in Oklahoma, in a 2600 square foot house. It is about 100 ft to my neighbors house.
silicosys4, I can afford one, I think I might want one, but is there a need for one?
I don't get this, you ask a question, we supply answers and then it seems like you are arguing with us about our answers. If you want to argue with someone argue with yourself because that's who you are in conflict with.

As for long shots, who says a rifle is only good for long shots?

A levergun in .357 Magnum is a very good HD gun and will not over penetrate with the correct ammo any more than with a handgun with the same ammo.
 
ArchAngelCD, I'm not arguing with anyone, and if your perception is that I am, I apologize.
Your replies have pretty much told me what I already knew. That the levergun is more powerful and is easier to shoot accurately.
You are right, I am in conflict with myself. It seems like a good idea, but I ask myself, why. If I am in the house, I can't see myself grabbing a levergun, would grab the 12 gauge or a revolver in that close of quarters. That leaves defending against the outdoors. But for the life of me, I can't come up with a good scenario that it would be needed for.
What I need is a reason, like the zombies are in the yard and you need to take them out a little farther out, only something realistic. Or, your out and about and you actually have a rifle behind your seat, and you are actually still near your car and...
If someone could just give me something that I could say, yeah that could happen, and yeah that rifle would be way better than a 12 gauge or a revolver for that, then i could justify the purchase to myself way easier. The last thing I need is another gun without a real purpose.
 
Actually a rifle/carbine is valuable not for the long shots you can make, but because it is stable and easier to make hits at close range under stressful conditions. My carbine class instructor (15 years SWAT) said the only time he would chose a handgun over a carbine was if he had to enter an extremely tight area (crawlspace or attic). A carbine has low recoil, hits harder, packs up to 30 rounds, and can engage targets from 0 to 400 yards. :D
 
It's not like you can just rate each weapon so many stars out of 5 and say "this is THE BEST for HD!" The shotgun has more power than the levergun. It is also more expensive to practice with, has greater recoil, and less capacity. Would I prefer a shotgun over a levergun? Personally, yes. My HD weapons are shotguns. But that's not to say that a levergun is intrinsically worse.

Any advantage the shotgun has over a revolver the levergun has too (with the exception of multiple projectiles). If you would choose a shotgun over a handgun, then you should choose a levergun over a handgun as well.

You are right, though. If you have a shotgun, then a levergun is more of a lateral move, or maybe even a step down. However, the title of this thread is "do I need a defense rifle." And using just "rifle", there are many that are (IMHO) a step up from a shotgun. But, the shotgun still has some advantages there. And yes, I am referring to all of these as HD weapons with the intended range of about 10 feet.

One huge selling factor for me is that I own .38 and .357 revolvers as well as lever actions. It is really nice to have interchangeable ammo for all of them. It is also dirt cheap to reload .357 or .38. The longer barrel, in my experience, tends to add an additional 200-400fps to whatever round you are using vs the revolver which adds pretty significant damage to the target. For ranges less than 100 Yards, they make great hunting rifles and, frankly, they are just a lot of fun to shoot.

Counterpoint: if you only have guns for one or two calibers, then if those rounds get scarce for whatever reason, you're going to have a hard time finding ammo. Granted, revolver cartridges are easier to reload for (because they're easier to collect the casings) and you probably have a stockpile. But the more calibers you have available, the greater your chance of finding ammo during a panic buy craze.
 
More potential accuracy is always a good thing ... but I dont think you can count on being able to use that accuracy to its potential unless you are well trained.

More penetration can very easily become a bad thing in even a semi-rural environment.

There are pros and cons to all defensive platforms. Personally, I keep centerfire rifle loaded and handy but 99% of the time when something goes bump in the night I reach for a pistol. The rifle is more of a 'just in case' thing - I've only ever fired it at coyotes and varmints that were messing around my property.

No, you probably dont NEED a defence rifle. But it sure cant hurt to have the option availible to you. It would benefit you to have those extra tools. You just need to properly weigh the consequences of using it.
 
I would rather have a defensive shotgun, unless I was defending a castle from hoards advancing across the plain.
 
I own a bunch of ARs, shotguns, and handguns. I depend on either my daily carry G26 or my suppressed G17 for h.d.

On-the-other-hand, if I hear reports that homes are being invaded by droves of doves, gaggles of geese, or coveys of quail, I'll probably put one of my shotguns in the house. :cool:

If this country degrades much further and civil unrest occurs, then I'd have to think that I'd be better served with one of my ARs and a bunch of mags and ammo.
 
The lever gun is nice - for what it does. It would be preferable to get it in a rifle caliber, because the performance would be better suited. Pistol cartridge carbines simply don't have the range and power, deliberately limiting your reach. You'd do just as well inside a home with a pistol in the same cartridge.

What the lever action doesn't do is be as safe handling it around the home. It's particularly noted hunting if you need to unload it traversing a field obstacle or casing it at the end of the day - you have to jack every round thru the chamber to clear it, nicking up every cartridge and closing the bolt on a chambered round repeatedly. That can and will increase the danger of a negligent discharge.

The box fed semi auto rifle allows you to drop the magazine and retract the bolt, done.

Loading is easier, too. Hold back the bolt with the button, insert mag, push button, put on safe. Locked and loaded. With the lever you are still pushing one cartridge in at a time.

Need to reload, the lever has to be cycled. If you are down to one arm, you are toast. Same for a pump. With a self loading rifle, you just need to pull the trigger - same as a pistol or revolver. Funny how rifles that do that get demonized, but having to hand eject and cycle a handgun round by round is ok?

Think about that.

All the monkey motion is one of the reasons that consumers quit buying lever actions and Winchester went out of business. Nice period piece, I have one, but I'll likely never use it hunting again. I take the AR.

What possible scenario would you need a rifle for defending your home? Not for the distance shots as much as for the power above and beyond the level of a pistol. Rifle cartridges can penetrate more obstacles. If what a pistol round fails to defeat is cover, then a rifle turns it into useless concealment. If intruders are attempting to beat down your solid core door in your last ditch room, it's going to be a lot easier to shoot thru it with a rifle round than waste your time waiting for them to succeed to use a pistol round or even worse, shotgun pellets.

Ironically, the latest trend in discussions seems to be a focus on low penetration ammo, which is distinctly the opposite of military requirements and the emphasis in male dysfunction drugs.

Must be a metro thing. :evil:

Even the Vice President gets that. "Shoot thru the door!"

Which is another strike against a pistol cartridge in a rifle. No point in limiting your response when the intruder surely won't. If someone is worried about where rifle rounds might go, they need to map out their shoot/no shoot arcs and learn them for the specific domicile. Adopting a blanket response isn't the best approach. You need to know exactly where you CAN shoot thru to take away the intruder's advantage.

It's why most of the discussions about it on the net are rather fruitless.

Anyway, the new traditional firearm for Americans isn't the lever action. It's the AR15 - over 20 million troops have trained on it over the last 45 years. It's the Garand of the day, we just can't buy them used from our government. We pay retail.

Levers were pretty hot against muzzle loaders in the day, but I suspect one man armed with an AR against a team of lever gun users could hold his own. In a disparity of force situation, don't sell yourself out.
 
A rifle lets allows for more precise shot placement. This gives you an edge over the shotgun or handgun if the badguy grabs a family member, for example

The rifle give you greater retention than a handgun if someone were to try to wrest it away from you.

A 357 lever action has lower recoil and faster shot to shot recovery time than a shotgun. It will be lighter and handier

Don't get wrapped around the axle trying to fit any self defense weapon into an unlikely scenario, such as needing to take long range shots. It's a waste of time. Instead, focus on the ups & downs of each according to your actual situation
 
No there isn't a need. You've done fine without it for your whole life. That said, lever actions are fun. I recommend one anyway.
 
For many a defensive rifle is an answer in search for a problem. Not a need...but then again if we only had what we need everybody would drive those goofy vw rabbit trucks and the only guns would be 20ga shotguns. That world sucks. Buy what you want. Sometimes the reasoning just needs to be that you want it.
 
I don't think it is very likely you will ever need the range of a rifle unless you live on a huge ranch near the Mexican border or something like that. Personally, I can't even think of a whole lot of scenarios where I would be firing a gun outdoors on my property in defense in a neighborhood setting. If you're taking 100 yd shots, that's gonna be pretty tough to explain.

I think a lever .357 doesn't make much sense for likely defensive scenarios. I have a 1894C, and I think for most users, it would actually end up offering slower follow-up shots compared to a handgun in likely HD scenarious such as home invasion. Also, the "more power" thing is a double-edge sword. Sure a nice 125gr .357 load can get up around 2000 fps offering a lot more KE than it would from a handgun at 1400 fps, but the bullet is not going to behave at all like it is meant to at that velocity. It has been optimized for handgun velocities. You could go to 158s or a more controlled expansion round I suppose like an SP instead of an HP, but you're getting into more odds of overpenetration through walls and so forth which is important in a neighborhood setting.

I think an AR-15 does make sense though for the same reasons it has slowly replaced MP5s as the go-to CQB gun: it is significantly more potent, and it actually has less chance of overpenetration in a house. The semi-automatic AR-15 can also deliver follow-up shots at least as fast as a handgun.
 
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