Help with 9mm 147gr LC (Molly) with Bullseye Load data

[pdjms1]

Ok I am going to start off by saying I am new to loading handgun ammunition and just got a XL650. I am taking it slow and trying to be cautious but since the powder I ordered is backordered I went down to the local Gander mountain to pick up some primers and powder.

I asked for their reloading expert and a little later a gentlemen approached and I let him know my requirements. IDPA Powerfactor 125k for 9mm 147gr LC Molly coated semi-wad cutter. They didn't have a wide selection of powders so it pretty much came down to tight group and bullseye since Dillon recommends to avoid IMR. He heavily recommended the bullseye so that is what I went with figuring I would find the load data in my handbook or on Alliance website. I know this is a bad idea not being prepared but it was an impulse since my wife and I were eating next door. I didn't really plan this trip.

However, they do not have any load data for 147 on their website. After trying to find other usual load source and against my normal cautious nature I went with a forum post from a individual who seemed to know what they were talking about and had a lot of history (posts). I have now loaded up 50 147gr LC Moly coated rounds with 3gr of Bullseye 1.160 OAL (OAL Var~.4) for testing but am not sure about actually pulling the trigger.

I am embarrassed that I got myself into this situation and would appreciate any information... Am I safe to test this load or should I give my bullet puller some love? If I do need to pull them is it because they are too hot, too lite, should I just abandon bullseye for 147 gr 9mm all together?

Thank you in advance!

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR and welcome to the "fun" world of match shooting.

9mm 147 gr LC (Molly) ... 3.0 gr Bullseye 1.160" OAL

Am I safe to test this load or should I give my bullet puller some love? If I do need to pull them is it because they are too hot, too lite, should I just abandon bullseye for 147 gr 9mm all together?

2004 Alliant load data lists 4.2 gr as max charge at 1010 fps with 147 gr XTP bullet at 1.140" OAL/COL - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

3.0 gr of Bullseye with 147 gr bullet at 1.160" OAL is not a hot load and Bullseye is one powder that "downloads" well below start charge and still produce accuracy. You should be close for minor 125 PF load, but you would need to chrono the load with your pistol as you need 851 fps for 125 PF (and 884 fps for 130 PF many match shooters load to as temperature sensitivity of powder will decrease muzzle velocity in colder winter temperatures - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10117881#post10117881).

Here's my range test with 147 gr lead FP bullet and Bullseye using 1.155"-1.160" OAL with Glock 22/KKM/Lone Wolf barrels along with Titegroup and W231/HP-38 - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=748940

 

[pdjms1]

First off, Thank you for the quick reply and additional information. Want to hear something funny....? It was YOUR post that I used as my guide for this initial load! However, I couldn't find it the second time I went back to confirm my notes which is why I became hesitant.

My chrono gets in Wednesday so I will be heading to the range after work to test these and a couple other published loads. I feel much better having your conformation with the empirical data to back it up. I have heard the horror stories of people who thought something was "close enough" and don't want to be included in that list.

Thanks again for the initial post and responding to this post!

 

[mdi]

Welcome to the wonderful, often confusing/frustrating world of reloading.

Sounds like you don't have a reloading manual. I strongly recommend at least 2 manuals for load data comparison. Load data can be found online, but there's much more to a reloading manual then load data. I prefer to use published reloading manuals for data comparison (I can open them and lay them on my bench) and portability (I often leave my manual open beside my press for load reminders). Plus I always tell newer reloaders to find a load in their manuals before they buy components. I understand your purchase was a spur-of-the moment buy, but I've been known to make a list of components/powders and keep it in my wallet just incase I drop by a "fun supplier"...

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...

 

[pdjms1]

MDI, Thank you for the sound advice. I do have the Lyman 49th and read from cover till about page 82 (all the best practices/safety info) before I touched anything. But I do find the Lyman to be a little lite on the actual load data for 9mm and was also concerned that it was out of a 16.25in barrel... not a pistol. So I imagine my milage will vary greatly for the velocity figures, maybe not. I referenced the Alliance website and didn't find the load data that BDS was able to provide which was a big help. I also prefer published guides and have printed the Western Powders guide already and plan on printing the Alliance guide as soon as I get more ink in for the printer.

I did select a load with all the components based on a friends recommendation of what he likes but all those items were backordered. So in 3 or 4 weeks I will have my "chosen" components shortly but I figured it would be nice to have something for comparison to know if this was the load for me or if I would be able to find a better combo.

For now, I'm pulling every 10th charge and weighing in addition to case gauging every round and OAL for 10% of every batch. I haven't yet, but plan on weighing all the bullseye completed rounds to ensure reasonable homogany in weight for the completed round. Any outliers will be pulled and I will weigh the resulting charge to ensure it was not a + charge or double charge (i do have mixed brass so I imagine that and the lead bullets will have some variation).

I'm doing 50 round batches for test loads. I figure this will allow me to adequately test functionality, STD Dev, accuracy, and recoil impulse. Am I wasting money (should I only load 20 for tests?) or am I being cheap (start with a 100 for a real sample)? If figure if I front load all my testing then I should be able to settle on a recipe buy in bulk and batch it out, "set it and forget it"... at least that is the plan for now... I can see how this can become a sickness. lol

Thanks again!

 

[Schwing]

MDI, Thank you for the sound advice. I do have the Lyman 49th and read from cover till about page 82 (all the best practices/safety info) before I touched anything. But I do find the Lyman to be a little lite on the actual load data for 9mm and was also concerned that it was out of a 16.25in barrel... not a pistol. So I imagine my milage will vary greatly for the velocity figures, maybe not. I referenced the Alliance website and didn't find the load data that BDS was able to provide which was a big help. I also prefer published guides and have printed the Western Powders guide already and plan on printing the Alliance guide as soon as I get more ink in for the printer.

I did select a load with all the components based on a friends recommendation of what he likes but all those items were backordered. So in 3 or 4 weeks I will have my "chosen" components shortly but I figured it would be nice to have something for comparison to know if this was the load for me or if I would be able to find a better combo.

For now, I'm pulling every 10th charge and weighing in addition to case gauging every round and OAL for 10% of every batch. I haven't yet, but plan on weighing all the bullseye completed rounds to ensure reasonable homogany in weight for the completed round. Any outliers will be pulled and I will weigh the resulting charge to ensure it was not a + charge or double charge (i do have mixed brass so I imagine that and the lead bullets will have some variation).

I'm doing 50 round batches for test loads. I figure this will allow me to adequately test functionality, STD Dev, accuracy, and recoil impulse. Am I wasting money (should I only load 20 for tests?) or am I being cheap (start with a 100 for a real sample)? If figure if I front load all my testing then I should be able to settle on a recipe buy in bulk and batch it out, "set it and forget it"... at least that is the plan for now... I can see how this can become a sickness. lol

Thanks again!

You will find that books like the Lyman 49th are far more useful load data than you think. One thing I have learned is that it is ok to use similar load data as long as you start working up your load from the starting charges and working up from there.

What I mean is that it is ok to substitue load data for a 125 grain JSP with say a 125 grain TMJ. The bullet profile and OAL are going to be completely different (Use the plunk test to get your OAL) but, since you are starting at the low end of the data, you are not going to be seeing dangerous pressures.

You can also, more often than not, substitute bullets of similar weights. Many manuals will have data for say a 120 grain bullet but not a 125 (or the other way around). Those variances are not enough to cause issues if you ALWAYS start at the low end of the data.

My rule of thumb is that I feel safe substituting for similar weights as long as the bullet composition is close to the same. For example, a JSP and TMJ are both copper jacketed so substitutions would be acceptable to me. A 125 grain lead cast and a 125 grain plated bullet would also be acceptable to me. However, I would NOT substitute a 125 grain lead cast bullet with a 125 grain JSP.

I also think 50 rounds per test is excessive. I make up between 5-10. Some loaders will do as few as 3.

 

[LiveLife]

When I shot USPSA matches, I used the following guidelines for my match loads (I also barrel chamber checked all the finished rounds so I did not have chambering issues during a match stage - Yeah, call me OCD but not as OCD as my bullseye match shooting mentor who shaved bottom of FMJ so all the bullets weighed the same ) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9892617#post9892617

Match loads:

- Montana Gold/Winchester FMJ/JHP bullets
- Sorted brass / headstamp
- Separately resized and hand primed cases
- Primer pocket checked/cleaned
- CCI/Winchester primers
- Specific powder that metered with less than .1 gr variance
- Tighter finished round dimension QC criteria

Range practice/plinking loads:

- Cheapest plated/lead bullets
- Mixed range brass / headstamp
- Resized and press primed cases in progressive mode
- Primer pocket not checked or cleaned
- Cheapest primers
- Cheapest available powders, even with up to .2+ gr variance like Promo
- Less finished round dimension QC criteria