help with revolver grip; blast pierced my thumb

[westernrover]

I'm trying to develop a two-handed revolver grip. I have size L hands, not XL, shooting a mid-size revolver. I shot all last year one-handed, so I'm trying to add the second hand now. If I do the parallel thumb thing like one would do with an autoloader, my support-hand thumb can get in front of the cylinder and I don't want to try that. So the other options I know is to wrap it around the back, or to stick it up on the side of the frame.

I've been sticking it up on the side of the frame for about a month now. I don't want it to be on the cylinder release, so I keep it pressed against the left side of the rear sight above the release. I was shooting that way today and the edge of my thumb caught some blast from the area where the pin hits the primer. It pierced a pin hole in my thumb and streaked it black. I inspected the primer carefully and did not see it was pierced, although I know that can happen. I think some gas must have just blown out the pocket or maybe there was a ricochet off the recoil shield from the forcing cone area. Either way, I don't want to stick my thumb there anymore. I started wrapping it around the back.

I've read that wrapping around the back is a less preferred method. Is there another solution?

 

[Sistema1927]

I am guessing that you have a slight cylinder alignment problem, and that you got a little bit of shaved lead. Not sure that a change in grip would help that, since the next time the trajectory of the fragment might be different. I suggest having the gun checked.

 

[westernrover]

I really hope not. I'm very much trying to get past equipment issues. This is my 4th S&W in a year and the first three had issues and were returned. But I did notice what seemed like a lot of copper fouling all over the barrel face today. Normally I just see a little orange on the edge of the forcing cone but today the whole face was orange after only 100 rounds. Maybe it was the bullets? The gap is 0.008" which is as good as I've ever found one. I bought this revolver in a store. Another counter-bought S&W I bought was also 0.008" but it had other issues. When I ordered one on the internet, it came 0.013" and I sent it back. The lockup on this one is a little loose and it has some end shake too, but I think they'd be "in spec." I don't know how to get one that doesn't spit.

So I think I worked out that if I push my strong hand thumb down hard instead of sticking it forward, I can put my support hand thumb over it and under the cylinder release and right behind the cylinder lug.

 

[beag_nut]

I also have large hands. I simply hold the revolver normally with my "shooting" hand, and then use the other's palm to support the shooting hand. I do not grip the revolver with the support hand, but I grip the shooting hand instead.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It sounds like you are trying to hold a revolver like a semi-auto, you can nit. If you have your thumb forward by the front of the cylinder gap you will hurt yourself.

Try this link:

 

[ATLDave]

OP, are you sure the injury/incident was from something coming from the action of the gun? I know the knuckle of my left/weak hand thumb gets cut by sharp cylinder released on S&Ws if I'm shooting something with anything beyond moderate 38 special power levels. I have to get cylinder latches and grind down/round off the lower edge and corners to avoid getting a cut thumb. Any chance you got nipped by the latch?

 

[AZAndy]

I put my left thumb over the back of my right hand regardless of the size of the revolver. That's usually only recommended for smaller frames, but I find that it works okay for everything from I-frame to N-frame.

 

[Tilos]

You might want to check the barrel/cylinder alignment/timing.
You can do this by cocking the hammer and looking thru the barrel at the cylinder throat for alignment.
Another way is use a wooden dowel that is a snug fit in the barrel.
Do it with every cylinder chamber, as the problem may only one chamber.
And understand all this stuff is done after verifying the gun is EMPTY

 

[westernrover]

I checked the timing last night. It looks as close to perfect as anything I've seen before. The lockup works correctly too. There is a couple thousandths of end shake but the big gap is eight thou. Headspace is in spec: 0.015" over my case's rims which are 0.52" so 0.067" headspace. There's a little play in the lockup but the cylinder turns just barely enough to feel it. I measured the bullets. They're .357" exactly.

I took it out again today and got hit twice. The first time I had my support thumb up on the side of the rear sight and it got hit again. It's training me to keep it on cylinder lug. A couple shots later, something hit my left ear. It stung like crazy, but no blood. I wear safety glasses with every shot.

I also had a light strike. I've been having trouble with this. I would say two or three out of 100. The pin makes a small dimple and no fire. If I roll the cylinder back and re-strike it fires. It's not unseated primers. It's not a loosened strain screw (it's full factory length and full tight.) I think parts in the action might be dragging. I noticed some of the color case hardening on the trigger is worn shiny.

The good news is it shoots straight and I'm getting better at shooting it. I shot a 5-inch six-shot group standing at 50 yards today in double-action with magnums. It puts magnums through the same hole at 10 yards. I shoot this gun better than my other three S&W and my Ruger. I also have the best holster for it of all my guns. But I don't want to shoot it anymore.

I want to go to school (Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, MAG40 or something), but I can't sign up if my junk isn't working. I'm afraid to send it to S&W because I can't see what is wrong with it. I've returned revolvers to them 6 times last year. In all cases I could see what was wrong, but they failed to fix it 2 out of 6 times. One of them they fixed on the second trip back. If I can't see what the problem is, I figure I have a slim chance of them fixing it. 50/50 at best, and I'm out my gun all the time they have it and don't know if I'll need another for classes or not. I could just buy another one, but this is my third ~$900 revolver from S&W and I'm trying to afford classes, and another revolver doesn't make that any easier. Besides it I only have two revolvers that are working: a J frame and a single-action -- I'd take them as backups for class, but not a primary gun.

 

[1KPerDay]

I put my left thumb over the back of my right hand regardless of the size of the revolver. That's usually only recommended for smaller frames, but I find that it works okay for everything from I-frame to N-frame.

same here

 

[drband]

I am guessing that you have a slight cylinder alignment problem, and that you got a little bit of shaved lead. Not sure that a change in grip would help that, since the next time the trajectory of the fragment might be different. I suggest having the gun checked.

OP: It still sounds like a cylinder alignment issue if you are getting hit by fragments. Period.
That, and the light strike issue seem to be saying send it to S&W. Send it with a full description, tell them what factory ammo you were shooting when it happened (even multiple brands, magnum, and regular ammo). Unfortunately, this is not an easy thing to diagnose. Could even be one chamber that is "off" in alignment in some way.

Thought... have you marked chambers to see if it spits only on certain chambers? That might be helpful. It could be some kind of machining issue with the cylinder. (If it spits on all cylinders, then S&W needs to know that, too.). The light strikes could be as simple as needing a longer firing pin... again, S&W can check and fix that for sure.

Having a new gun with major issues is frustrating beyond belief, but the manufacturer should be the one to make it right. (By any chance did you purchase through Davidson's Gun Genie? I believe they have a warranty replacement policy--or am I dreaming that?)

 

[alfsauve]

Tried the left thumb on top of right thumb that JM shows. Doesn't work for me. In fact my thumb kept getting hit by either the cyclinder shield or the release. Tried the left thumb on top of right hand, that Michael Bane used for the boomers. That's sort of doable but I will only use that for boomers.

I think there's wide variation in structure and size of our hands and one hold doesn't work for everybody.

I'll try to get a picture this afternoon, but I have my left thumb right below the cylinder. Thumbs parallel. I've never had a problem with the cylinder gap, from J-from through X. It makes for one consistent hold, semi-auto, revolver single shot.

film at 11

 

[Old Stumpy]

This might be a little awkward, but how about this test:

1) Make up a small prepared strip of a couple of layers of masking tape, ready to use.
2) Load the revolver and cock it, and then apply the strip of tape to cover and block the suspected area at the rear of the cylinder with your off hand, while taking care to point the revolver down range at all times.
3) Fire the revolver with the two hand hold that is most likely to cause a fragment strike to your thumb or hand and see what happens.
4) Remove the strip and examine it, and then repeat the test for all 6 chambers.
5) If the tape picks up a strike, or is blown off, then you have a gas leak there somehow.
6) If there is no mark, but you are still getting strikes to your thumb, then it must be coming from the forcing cone area of the cylinder.

Of course, the revolver would need to be oil-free in this area for the tape to stick, and all 6 chambers would need to be loaded so that no fragments from the forcing cone area could sneak back through an empty chamber which is right next to the forcing cone.
And, having several of the prepared strips handy might be wise in case one won't stick again, or you drop it during the test.

 

[Obturation]

I checked the timing last night. It looks as close to perfect as anything I've seen before. The lockup works correctly too. There is a couple thousandths of end shake but the big gap is eight thou. Headspace is in spec: 0.015" over my case's rims which are 0.52" so 0.067" headspace. There's a little play in the lockup but the cylinder turns just barely enough to feel it. I measured the bullets. They're .357" exactly.

I took it out again today and got hit twice. The first time I had my support thumb up on the side of the rear sight and it got hit again. It's training me to keep it on cylinder lug. A couple shots later, something hit my left ear. It stung like crazy, but no blood. I wear safety glasses with every shot.

I also had a light strike. I've been having trouble with this. I would say two or three out of 100. The pin makes a small dimple and no fire. If I roll the cylinder back and re-strike it fires. It's not unseated primers. It's not a loosened strain screw (it's full factory length and full tight.) I think parts in the action might be dragging. I noticed some of the color case hardening on the trigger is worn shiny.

The good news is it shoots straight and I'm getting better at shooting it. I shot a 5-inch six-shot group standing at 50 yards today in double-action with magnums. It puts magnums through the same hole at 10 yards. I shoot this gun better than my other three S&W and my Ruger. I also have the best holster for it of all my guns. But I don't want to shoot it anymore.

I want to go to school (Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, MAG40 or something), but I can't sign up if my junk isn't working. I'm afraid to send it to S&W because I can't see what is wrong with it. I've returned revolvers to them 6 times last year. In all cases I could see what was wrong, but they failed to fix it 2 out of 6 times. One of them they fixed on the second trip back. If I can't see what the problem is, I figure I have a slim chance of them fixing it. 50/50 at best, and I'm out my gun all the time they have it and don't know if I'll need another for classes or not. I could just buy another one, but this is my third ~$900 revolver from S&W and I'm trying to afford classes, and another revolver doesn't make that any easier. Besides it I only have two revolvers that are working: a J frame and a single-action -- I'd take them as backups for class, but not a primary gun.

I had so many issues with modern s&w i flat gave up.

 

[alfsauve]

My technique and I've never burned my thumb including J, K, L, N and X frames. YMMV !!!

 

[old lady new shooter]

I put my left thumb over the back of my right hand regardless of the size of the revolver. That's usually only recommended for smaller frames, but I find that it works okay for everything from I-frame to N-frame.

This is exactly what I do also.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I put my left thumb over the back of my right hand regardless of the size of the revolver. That's usually only recommended for smaller frames, but I find that it works okay for everything from I-frame to N-frame.

Yup. Me too

 

[Tallball]

Yeah, I hold mine pretty much like that, too, and I have XXL hands. I am 6'6" and my FiL is 6'8". We both hold our revolvers about like that (thumbs forward) and neither of us get burned. It must be a problem with the gun.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I use quite a different grip. I would call it a crush grip with overlocked thumbs.

First pic is one handed. Note my thumb over my middle finger.

Second two showing support hand. Note my support hand thumb over my gun hand thumb.

Honestly, I have no idea if this is “correct” or not. It lets recoil be absorbed by both hands equally and works great for hard kicking magnums like the .454 Casull.

It may not be the recommended way but it works for this non competition shooter and I don’t get burned either.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Here with a K Frame.

 

[Cump]

I've returned revolvers to them 6 times last year. In all cases I could see what was wrong, but they failed to fix it 2 out of 6 times. One of them they fixed on the second trip back. If I can't see what the problem is, I figure I have a slim chance of them fixing it. 50/50 at best, and I'm out my gun all the time they have it and don't know if I'll need another for classes or not. I could just buy another one, but this is my third ~$900 revolver from S&W and I'm trying to afford classes, and another revolver doesn't make that any easier. Besides it I only have two revolvers that are working: a J frame and a single-action -- I'd take them as backups for class, but not a primary gun.

That's some really bad luck!

 

[9mmepiphany]

Here with a K Frame.

Is there a reason that you are gripping with the web of your hand so far below the shoulder of the frame?

Usually the lower you grip on the frame the higher muzzle flip will be due to the increased leverage over the pivot point

 

[earlthegoat2]

Is there a reason that you are gripping with the web of your hand so far below the shoulder of the frame?

Usually the lower you grip on the frame the higher muzzle flip will be due to the increased leverage over the pivot point

I was fussing with the phone and more focusing on how my two hands meshed together rather than how the were positioned on the revolver. Would have been better if I had someone to take the photos for me.

Still though, thank you for the observation. I often find myself at the range noticing myself doing this on any revolver with that style Hogue grip. That is why I really like wooden combat style grips and Tyler grip adapters.

 

[WheelGunMan]

earlthegoat2 certainly demonstrates the proper grip technique for a revolver. The overlapping thumb from the support hand also helps in locking the revolver firmly into the web of the primary hand. Great pictures showing proper grip.

 

[the Black Spot]

I'm with earlthegoat2. I can rapid fire my CA bulldog 45 colt at 8 yds and keep five inside a paper plate with that grip(not real good shooting but isnt bad for defensive shooting)