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Helper stole a gun, need advice

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by klover, Jul 4, 2013.

?

What is my correct moral action?

Poll closed Aug 3, 2013.
  1. Discuss it and give her a chance to return it

    71 vote(s)
    31.8%
  2. Go to the police immediately

    151 vote(s)
    67.7%
  3. Get her university and parents involved

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Pretend you are not on to her, and try to teach some moral compass.

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
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  1. alfon99

    alfon99 Member

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    Don't give her a chance to return it, It's dangerous. Maybe it was not for her, maybe it was for a boyfriend. If you don't tell the police, bad things may happen.
     
  2. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I haven't seen any evidence so far that establishes probable cause to arrest your student employee for theft.

    But if she did take it, that's automatically felony theft in my state. Bad juju. And yeah, I did dumb stuff at 21, but that doesn't mean I don't have to be responsible for my own stupidity.

    Still, unless you're leaving something out, I remain unconvinced that your student is your thief. It's a possibility, but only that.

    Search everywhere again, then if it doesn't turn up, report it as missing (NOT stolen) to the police. Then I might have a word with the girl and mention what you did and what the penalty is for stealing a firearm.
     
  3. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    se fla i love claymores 01/sot
    if nothing else,file a missing/misplaced gun report.cover your butt.
     
  4. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Member

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    Almost the most important thing to consider here is to trust your instinct. You will usually be right. Report the theft, fire her, and you will never regret it.
    I had a nanny that we suspected was selling prescription narcotics from my driveway. Zero proof, and we needed her, but I had one ounce of suspicion and that was enough. She was done that day; I didn't give her a chance to explain nor a second chance. A lot of angst went into the thought process, but the hard right beats the easier wrong.
     
  5. chrt396

    chrt396 Member

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    I agree with this statement! I can hear the conversation...Just the mere mention that the police will have to be called MAY push her to give it up.

    "Susan..ya know that gun I showed you just the other day? Somehow...soon after, I noticed the gun missing! I hate the fact that I have to call the poilce, cuz' it's going to screw up SOMEONE'S life. I'll have to give them your name since you were the last one that handled it! You WILL be questioned. By the way Susan..did you see anyone else near the gun or do you know where it may be? At least if it shows up..I won't have to call the police department, because if I do, then the person having posession of it would be charged with a felony! Geez..I hate for that to happen!"

    Off the cuff..that is probably what I'd say!
     
  6. gym

    gym member

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    You are putting you own freedoms in jeopardy by not reporting a crime. Once you have knowledge that a crime involving a firearm occurred, you are required by law, "and common sense", to report it, "the theft of a firearm". By not doing so, you put yourself and family at financial and legal risk. If someone is shot or that gun is used in a holdup, you can be implicated in the crime for not reporting it as soon as you realized it was missing.
    Even if it is returned you don't know if it was used to shoot someone while it was gone.
    It is your obligation and responsibility to report it as soon as you knew it was missing. Otherwise should something happen it's going to end up in your lap. People sue everyone if they are given the opportunity to sue. If you knew that she may have taken it, and it was used you are going to be liable for damages, forget what people tell you about if not being a big deal, it could end up costing you everything you own, if she gave that gun to some guy who used it to rob or kill someone.
    It's like someone taking your car, and you sitting there hoping they return it, meanwhile they use it to commit a robbery or run someone over with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  7. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    Now that she knows you are on to her and that you have a busy schedule she is busy planting drugs and kiddie porn in your house while you are away!!

    All because you waited to phone the police. ;)
     
  8. tubeshooter

    tubeshooter Member

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    I'm glad you called the police to at least notify them. As stated, whatever goes on to happen with that gun is your responsibility, especially if you know there's a high probability it is stolen and you fail to speak up.

    DO NOT cut any breaks for this individual because she is young and female. Do not treat her any different than you would one of us on the board.

    Don't send her parents any URLs or any other such nonsense.

    Don't mix up how you feel about "woman kind" with this situation and let it cloud how you handle it. Wrong time for that.


    Don't play games with this. This is very serious. Hope it all works out favorably and nobody goes on to get robbed, hurt or worse with the gun.
     
  9. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Far too little detail in the OP. Assuming it's actually stolen and assuming she stole it are pretty big leaps, and would require a much clearer sequence of events. Did she have a key? Who else did? Did it just vanish after the range session? If so it could simply have wound up in the wrong bag, and isn't a criminal matter at all but a result of your own failure to monitor your arms.

    How did she have access then? There's a big information gap. You hire someone, she is interested in shooting, you show her your firearms, and then a while later you notice one missing--right? That doesn't add up to "she must have stolen one" unless for some bizarre reason you also gave her keys to the gun storage.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  10. Meta

    Meta Member

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    I would audio record any further interaction you have with her. Second, I would confront her and let her know that you have hidden surveillance video throughout your home and that you are prepared to go to the police with this if she does not come clean. I'm betting that she will own up to it and return the gun. Then, so she doesn't make the same "mistake" again, call the cops and report the incident for prosecution. I have no patience for thievery, especially involving firearms. If you just call the cops on her you will likely never get your gun back and she will likely not face charges for lack of proof.
     
  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Whatever happened to just asking "remember that XXX I showed you last month? Have you seen that around?"

    Careful! That may not be legal.
     
  12. klover

    klover Member

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    The access

    was always limited to me being there except for very brief instances away (minutes).
    She never was able to enter without me.

    What hurts was the promise of some time to do what I need has changed to a much bigger time commitment to help secure from this situation.

    I've been calling the PD, but their responsiveness is very lack luster around here.

    She did an excellent job on some very rigorous jobs, and I am shaken that she might make an attempt to enter while I am away now that she knows my situation.

    The 100% sure is because it was visible to me on a daily basis for the past few weeks. I am too busy to have misplaced it, and tend to leave things alone except what needs to get me out the door and on to my work. Only food and laundry get attention until domestic help arrives.

    I'll accept this as a loss, and she will not be allowed back. My weakness was simply being overworked. I SO needed a good helper.

    Just the same, I would still hate to see her get a Felony.
     
  13. jsab9191

    jsab9191 Member

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    Trust your first instinct , you are the only one here who knows her, and if you want to give her a break give her a break. I haven't read all the post related to this topic.
     
  14. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I've been way too forgiving with people in my life, mostly because I had no choice(long stories). But someone steals a gun from me and I know or suspect who, they're going to jail. I don't care if I have to drag a cop in by the ear, or go over them to the ATF, nobody's going to steal a gun from me and skip away.
     
  15. Meta

    Meta Member

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    The recording is not to use against her if she admits she stole the pistol, it's to protect YOU from false allegations if she feels the need to attack you with a claim of rape, threatening. In most states a recording can be used legally. Even "two party" recording states have these provisions in many cases to allow people to protect themselves in circumstances like this.
     
  16. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    She is 21 not 12......
     
  17. tubeshooter

    tubeshooter Member

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    I'm sorry if this comes across the wrong way... but based on what you are saying above you don't appear to "get it" and the board is pretty much wasting it's collective time advising you.

    You're just seeking some validation on taking it easy with her on this, is all.

    If you seriously believe she stole a firearm from you, then WHY do you hate to see her get a felony so bad??


    Oh yeah... next time - forget about the "halfway hidden in plain sight" security plan. Especially if you are going to be hiring help and letting semi-random people into your home. Good luck.
     
  18. klover

    klover Member

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    Ever meet people whom seem so sharp

    you are in awe of them? I try to give those types every chance. I was always grateful when folks helped me through school.


    Being sleep deprived for the past 10 weeks didn't help anything, but the forum
    has never been a waste of my time.
    I have learned a great deal here, and respect everyone's input.

    Yes sir, more steel boxes are coming until I get a chance to cash out and go travel for a while.
     
  19. tubeshooter

    tubeshooter Member

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    I'm really sorry that this happened to you, sir. You seem sincere and well-intentioned.

    Just the same, being in awe of someone so sharp doesn't justify or excuse somebody possibly getting killed with one of your guns. No matter how you want to slice and dice it.

    It is woefully irresponsible - to be as charitable about it as I can be. But at least you have notified the authorities. Hopefully nothing bad happens and they don't come back to your door asking you a bunch of questions (or worse) down the road.


    I've received and appreciated help in my younger days, too. I never expected anybody to cut me any slack on something of that gravity, though.


    Hope it all works out. That's all I have on this; actually I want to apologize for speaking in the context of the whole board, which is out of line on my part. I have also gained a lot from The High Road, and the vast majority of us are here to share and learn. I respect that tremendously.


    Good day, sir.
     
  20. chitoryu12

    chitoryu12 Member

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    A firearm is not something you just "accept as a loss." That's a weapon that could easily be out on the streets and soon finding itself connected to the murder of an innocent person.

    I don't know all the evidence that this girl stole it, or even if there IS evidence beyond circumstantial stuff. But this is something that really needs to be thoroughly investigated, not brushed aside.
     
  21. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    Depending on how certain you are it was her, and providing you have some form of evidence, like video that shows her taking it, you may not have very much luck in recovering it, or having her charged with the crime.

    But all else aside, I would definitely get it reported to LE ASAP. Until you've reported it as stolen it is your firearm out there, and it could put you in a legally questionable situation, or worse if left unreported. If you were dealing with something else that doesn't represent the degree of concern a firearm does, maybe some first offender considerations would be in order, maybe. But from a personal perspective, I don't give thieves a break. Years of working in loss prevention has made it easy for me to address theft with very little consideration for the thief.

    GS
     
  22. fanchisimo

    fanchisimo Member

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    I'm all for second chances and helping people out, but as this is a firearm and can have very harmful repercussions, I would probably go to the police to CYA. If you truly believe she is redeemable, then do what someone said and report it lost or stolen, but don't give her information to police.
     
  23. Schwing

    Schwing Member

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    I would, minimally report the gun stolen. 21 sure is young but it is too old to skirt accountability. It is great to want to give her the benefit of the doubt but the police are going to ask if you have suspicions about possible takers when you report. it. From what I am reading here, it is far from certain that she did take it anyway so who is to say a REAL bad guy doesn't have i? When possible, make her aware that you have contacted the police regarding the missing gun. At no point in that conversation do you need to even insinuate that you suspect her. Something along the lines of "Ya know that gun I was showing you the other day? Someone stole the thing and I had to file a police report." If she has half a brain, the gun can find its way back home without her going to jail and you are on the safe side of legal.
     
  24. frankenstein406

    frankenstein406 Member

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    You better have some good safes or report the gun stolen. I would be worried of a robbery next.
     
  25. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    This. Our OP sounds like a very sweet man. I would love to have you as a neighbor, my friend. Unfortunately, your comments suggest a trusting and naive demeanor that lends oneself to being played. I think she is playing you, good buddy. This is no longer about how you feel toward her, it's about securing that weapon. You have no way to know how she is storing/using/selling/gifting that weapon. That places others at risk, and you will be at least partially liable.
     
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