Here is one we speak about often, 2 dead carrying with empty chamber

[Elkins45]

Watching that video just makes me sad, especially for the son. Watching the dad on the floor trying to rack the slide will certainly give you a sense of how desparate he must have felt in that last moment.

A round in the chamber might have saved at least one of them.

 

[Snyper]

I'm afraid I don't see the logic. Can you help with that?

When the "higher- ups" make their decree, logic isn't needed.

 

[sarge83]

My Dad will not carry one in the chamber and I have told him and told him. He doesn't like that I do but I walk with a cane and I have told him I am already at a disadvantage with one hand being occupied I won't have time to draw, drop my cane, then try and chamber a round, that is one second too long in a gun fight, so I carry in a holster, chambered ready to go. He likes to carry his Glock 19, but I have told him if you won't carry chambered stick your .38 snub nose in your pocket holster at least you are ready to go right off the bat. My late father-in-law shot, and carried about every handgun ever made at one time or another but would not carry his 1911 chambered.

 

[bassjam]

I've had several discussions with a buddy of mine who refuses to carry hot. He claims he always has enough situational awareness to be prepared to rack the slide before anything bad happens, and he just doesn't believe that he could ever be surprised. His reasoning is that he doesn't feel safe carrying a loaded gun with his young daughter around, but obviously not doing so can be more dangerous to both he and his daughter.

 

[jdc1244]

The resolution to this issue, of course, is to carry a hammer-fired pistol with a decocker.

Problem solved

 

[Sarge7402]

I'm afraid I don't see the logic. Can you help with that?

If there's no rond under the hammer or firing pin it's almost impossible to have an accidental discharge.

 

[Sarge7402]

Holy cowski...I've been with state corrections for 15 years and one thing I have always been on staff, on and off duty - keep your firearms hot! One up the spout is required per policy. I cannot imagine your policy will surivie the first wrongful death lawsuit. Sorry, amigo. They need to amend that policy ASAP.

Armored you are preaching to the choir. Did almost 17 years as a peace officer and all that time and with all of our surronding agencies all weapons were hot all the time

 

[salt&battery]

First no union, we're a right to work state. Second about 5 years ago we transitioned from .38 revolvers to glock 40's. with a 38 it was a NBFD as you carry no round under the hammer the other five chambers loaded pull the trigger and revolver goes boom.

They're mostly worried about AD's, had a couple bad ones including one where his/her partner was shot while doing a number 2 in a porta jon.

and I bet many more people shot by AD's then not having a chambered round. a revolver solves the problem

 

[salt&battery]

I like 'Active Self Protection' videos, but I think there is a contradiction here. They also preach about "don't draw on a drawn gun" (even mentioned it in this video)! Especially when there are "multiple armed robbers" as noted by the narrator. The look of the video is that the robber wasn't intent on shooting anyone, and didn't do so until his life was threatened. To me that is the lesson here. When you pull a weapon on someone they are likely to fight for THEIR life. There seems to be a mind set that the criminal will cower at the sight of the hero's gun when presented and that just isn't always the case. I realize the OP was going for the chambered vs unchambered debate, but "self explanatory" assumes that all would have ended well for the victims had he been able to fire shot(s) immediately. Lots of other things could have gone wrong, missed shot(s), safety on, malfunction, or success against the first robber only to be killed by the second, etc. Point being when you engage it doesn't all go your way, especially when you are at a huge disadvantage in both numbers and preparedness. Argue chambered/unchambered all you want, it isn't the only factor or the biggest factor in my opinion.

I say you are right if he had one in the chamber he would have never got both of them being he looked clumsy real nervous and maybe missed anyway. him and his son would have been shot either way

 

[salt&battery]

Having lived through an incident 2 times when guns were pointed at me and put to my head, I swore I would never again let someone decide when I die. I would always take the shot if I had the oppertunity. Carrying empty is giving the bad guy the say so as to when you meet your maker. I want to be able to decide that on my own. If I go I 'm taking a few with me. Even if someone has a gun pointed at you, there is a good chance that you will get the oppertunity to respond, if they knew you had a gun you would already be dead. That type of criminal would never stick up an armed person, "they have told me this" on several occasions, thus you have a split second, as in the video to react. no one says you are going to live if you comply.

how did you live thru two times having a gun pointed at your head?

 

[herrwalther]

Unfortunately our agency's policy is that all of our weapons will be round free in the chambers until we need to draw and use them. Yeah we have over 5000 sworn officers. We're a department of corrections

Be thankful you have firearms. On our corrections staff we have a Taser X2 and pepper spray. No baton or firearms.

 

[armoredman]

Not IN the unit...inside the wire is still radio, Phantom and TASER.

 

[Sarge7402]

Be thankful you have firearms. On our corrections staff we have a Taser X2 and pepper spray. No baton or firearms.

I hope that's not while transporting them? If it is it gives suck a whole new meaning

 

[herrwalther]

I hope that's not while transporting them? If it is it gives suck a whole new meaning

Transports are usually done by local PD. If we do it, there are 2 officers. At least one of them must be qualified and armed. We are forming a response team to deal with large disturbances who go through weapons training. But it is a pilot program so nobody is really sure of rules about weapons just yet.

 

[Hokkmike]

exactly, I feel If I am not comfortable with a loaded weapon I should not carry one ,

A gun with bullets in the magazine IS loaded.

 

[JO JO]

A gun with bullets in the magazine IS loaded.

Yes and no ever hear the term lock and load ? Load means hot live round chambered ,

 

[Theohazard]

I'm afraid I don't see the logic [of carrying a revolver without a round under the hammer]. Can you help with that?

If there's no rond under the hammer or firing pin it's almost impossible to have an accidental discharge.

Whether a revolver is carried with a round under the hammer or not doesn't make any difference in safety; a modern revolver won't discharge no matter how hard the hammer is struck. But, in both carry methods, the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled since the cylinder rotates during the trigger pull.

Carrying a modern revolver without a round under the hammer is absolutely pointless and does nothing besides giving you one less round in your gun.

 

[george burns]

how did you live thru two times having a gun pointed at your head?

My mouth is a deadly weapon, one guy said I never heard anyone talk as much with a gun to the back of his head, I told him I would sing him a medely of irish folk songs if he took it away from my head, this was in 1974, when 2 guys robbed a liquor store, that I happened to be parked down the block from waiting for a close friend to come out of his dads house on 47th street in Manhatten. They walked up on me, and next thing I knew I had a 1911 pointed at my head, and one jumped in the front one in the rear "on the floor" with the gun to my head and said, drive. The other one is much longer.

 

[HOWARD J]

If you are afraid to carry with a round in the chamber-you may be afraid to shoot the bad guy---what do you say

 

[salt&battery]

If you are afraid to carry with a round in the chamber-you may be afraid to shoot the bad guy---what do you say

it is much better to shoot a bad guy then yourself

 

[HOWARD J]

it is much better to shoot a bad guy then yourself

GOOD LUCK--BETTER LATE THAN NEVER DON'T WORK TOO GOOD ON EMPTY CHAMBER

 

[salt&battery]

GOOD LUCK--BETTER LATE THAN NEVER DON'T WORK TOO GOOD ON EMPTY CHAMBER

revolvers work fine. S&W makes one with 8 shots for those who need to hold off human wave attacks

 

[Hokkmike]

Listen, it is a good video with an obvious lesson. But it is one scenario that played out in a certain way. The odds of an AD or ND still far outweigh the possibility of ever needing to use your weapon for SD. In the event of an actual confrontation a situation must be thought through. In no circumstance should you draw against guns already pointed at you. Stealth and timing remain your allies. It is no doubt better not to need the step of racking your slide but all things considered it is still much more efficacious to have a weapon in condition 3 than not. I am sure that there are people here who would even decry having the safety engaged on their CCW. It is all a matter of personal comfort and safety. Bottom line - whatever allows you to carry everyday and all the time is optimal. With training and experience, as your level of competence and trust in your weapon grows, you can elevate your condition of readiness. Until then, no one is less of a man or a shooter because he opts for safety first. I know many good and experience shooters who prefer to rack their slide as they bring their gun to bear. This video not withstanding, and thanks for it OP, it is still better to have a weapon available than not to carry because you don't meet somebody else's standard of preparedness.

 

[salt&battery]

Listen, it is a good video with an obvious lesson. But it is one scenario that played out in a certain way. The odds of an AD or ND still far outweigh the possibility of ever needing to use your weapon for SD. In the event of an actual confrontation a situation must be thought through. In no circumstance should you draw against guns already pointed at you. Stealth and timing remain your allies. It is no doubt better not to need the step of racking your slide but all things considered it is still much more efficacious to have a weapon in condition 3 than not. I am sure that there are people here who would even decry having the safety engaged on their CCW. It is all a matter of personal comfort and safety. Bottom line - whatever allows you to carry everyday and all the time is optimal. With training and experience, as your level of competence and trust in your weapon grows, you can elevate your condition of readiness. Until then, no one is less of a man or a shooter because he opts for safety first. I know many good and experience shooters who prefer to rack their slide as they bring their gun to bear. This video not withstanding, and thanks for it OP, it is still better to have a weapon available than not to carry because you don't meet somebody else's standard of preparedness.

very good post. well said. that is what I say that there are way more AD or ND then people shot while trying to rack the slide. AD'S and ND'S give anti gun people a lot of fuel. if that guy had one in the chamber being he looked very clumsy and nervous which you can understand he might have got one shot off maybe missed and got shot anyway. there is a good chance had he not drew his gun he would still be alive

 

[Kleanbore]

In no circumstance should you draw against guns already pointed at you.

The victim did not have gun pointed at him when he drew, and only someone at the scene is qualified to judge from body language and from words spoken whether trying to shoot while the robber's attention was directed elsewhere might be the best course of action. Discussed here often.

It is no doubt better not to need the step of racking your slide....

That's probably the understatement of the year.

but all things considered it is still much more efficacious to have a weapon in condition 3 than not.

What does that mean?

I know many good and experience shooters who prefer to rack their slide as they bring their gun to bear.

How many of them have participated in realistic FoF training, or in a Tueller-scenario drill?

What "shooters" do is not important here. The subject is one of how best for defenders to carry.

QUOTE="salt&battery, post: 10528771, member: 242760"]if that guy had one in the chamber being he looked very clumsy and nervous which you can understand he might have got one shot off maybe missed and got shot anyway.[/QUOTE]Nothing is certain.

there is a good chance had he not drew his gun he would still be alive

That's always the unknown. But he was there, and it was he who had to decide, knowing what he knew at the time.




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