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Former Sheriff Deputy Advising Carrying on Empty Chamber

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by johnandersonoutdoors, May 6, 2013.

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  1. johnandersonoutdoors

    johnandersonoutdoors Member

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    Hey everyone,

    I was talking with a coworker this morning who is fairly new to owning guns. He visited fam and friends last weekend back in Ohio.

    One of his friends is a former sheriff deputy. Of course they spent some time talking about guns and such. My coworker got his conceal permit and is planning on a .380 I think. Well I guess the two of them were talking about carrying concealed and his buddy (former sheriff deputy) says that he was taught in police academy to carry on empty chamber and load a round as you draw.

    I feel like his is joking with my friend because that sounds so ridiculous. Is that taught in any police academies?

    Personally I carried with empty chamber for a little while on my M&P9 but have changed that practice. I can't imagine law enforcement doing it.

    I guess it is personal choice and some law enforcement do it? Apparently the former sheriff deputy mentioned the benefit that if someone grabs his gun it won't fire because it the chamber is empty. That could definitely save your life in a situation where your gun is taken from you but I never thought for a second LEO would carry empty.
     
  2. steveno

    steveno Member

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    I can't believe that something like that would be taught at an police academy to officers. how a private citizen decides to carry a ccw I guess that is up to the citizen however I don't think that would be very wise.
     
  3. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    Without getting into the "Condition 3" carry debate... the possibility that the former deputy's academy taught C3 carry would not surprise me in and by itself.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  4. ChaoSS

    ChaoSS Member

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    Keep in mind that there are a lot of firearms instructors that don't know what they are talking about. You hear these stories all the time, heard one the other day that the military uses the .223 round because those rounds are configured to hit bones and follow the bone and do maximum tissue damage....


    It's entirely possible that some small police academy somewhere teaches this, because their firearms instructor heard this at some point and it made sense to him. So now he just teaches it.
     
  5. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    What ?????

    I was an LEO and a firearms instr and NEVER would I have told ANYONE including a cizilian to carry an EMPTY GUN.

    Try loading [ use dummy rounds of course ] a pistol under any stress with ONE HAND.

    Your most likely to only have ONE hand as the other is opening a door,fighting off an assault,or damaged.

    It can be done,IF you train every week and that mean every week and all year every year.

    That advise is for someone who is afraid of guns,and THEY should not carry one = simple.
     
  6. john wall

    john wall Member

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    [​IMG]

    Have performed and taken LEO training in a number of states, never saw or heard of this crap.

    "Deputy" is an idiot. Period. I bet money HE did not carry EC. Only idiots and beginners do this.
     
  7. Greg528iT

    Greg528iT Member

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  8. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Hopefully, it was a mis-communication. Hopefully.

    Otherwise, it's a sign of a severe lack of training. :uhoh:
     
  9. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    That beginner will probably figure it out eventually. Personal CCW techniqes continually evolve, and individuals' comfort levels may change from when they first start carrying. Along with that evolution will most likely be a change in the weapon condition status.

    As far as someone actually instructing to do that, that person could be a total idiot, or could be someone who is taking into consideration the 'lowest common denominator' when giving someone some general advice.

    Certainly, carrying on an empty chamber is better than not having one on you at all, but you sure do limit your options when the weapon must 'be readied' prior to use.
     
  10. nathan

    nathan Member

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    I do carry condition 3 at times but i cc k the hammer with empty chamber so when its time to rack the slide, it is easier.
     
  11. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    I highly doubt that any modern police academy teaches such a method.
    .
    .
    ..
    .
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  12. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    "Former Sheriff Deputy"
    maybe for a reason
     
  13. RBid

    RBid Member

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    I have the empty chamber carry conversation at least once each week. It's generally someone getting ready to secure their CHL, and shopping for a carry weapon. Frequently, the subject comes up as someone looking at pocket .380s says something to the effect of, "I guess it doesn't matter if this LCP/P3AT/etc doesn't have a safety. You shouldn't have a round in the chamber, anyway."

    The best answer I've found is to point out that 0-5 foot engagements are common, and to pull a flashlight out of my pocket. I stand at five feet, and say, "pretend this is a knife. How do you feel about your chances of clearing your cover garment, drawing, committing both hands to rack the slide, getting on target, and getting enough rounds on me to stop you, before I stab you? Keep in mind that committing both hands to racking means that you have no hands to hold me off."

    That usually settles that, but some guys still opt to tell me how it is. When that happens, I advise that they seek training, and give them a list of places to find it.
     
  14. 481

    481 Member

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    Perhaps the former LEO dispensing this poor advice was trained to carry a single round in his shirt pocket? :evil:
     
  15. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I went through my academy in 71, any such talk would have been scoffed at.
     
  16. Zeke/PA

    Zeke/PA Member

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    In the past, I have advised folks to purchase for home defence/CCW , a revolver rather than an auto for this reason.
    With someone who is not a shooter, an auto might be difficult to get into quick action considering De-cockers, safeties etc.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  17. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Just the thought of trying to rack the slide of a pistol to chamber a round prior to some sort of armed encounter seems to be a really bad idea, both in theory and in actual use. I can only imagine the possible number of things that could go wrong in that scenario. For me Condition One has been and always will be the way I carry my CCW.
     
  18. returningfire

    returningfire Member

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    What good is an empty handgun? If there isn't one in the chute then it may as well be empty in a panic situation. Maybe in a cowboy gun that doesn't have a transfer bar it would be a good idea to have the hammer resting on an empty cylinder. But for a self defense weapon I can't think of a good reason to carry it without having one in the tube.
     
  19. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    It sure looks cool when Tommy Lee Jones chambers a round while chasing Harrison Ford in "The Fugitive."
     
  20. bolthead

    bolthead Member

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    Idk. I think carrying on empty chamber is a good stage to start on for beginners. And class instructors probably assume that most people in class are beginners. After all self-inflicted gunshot wounds make one feel pretty stupid, not to mention they do nothing to resolve the situation when one had to draw a gun in the first place.
     
  21. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    I'm not aware of any major law enforcement agency, any major school or any major instructor recommending carrying a gun with an empty chamber.
     
  22. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Personally, any semi-auto that has a manual safety, I'll carry with one in the chamber. Pistols like Glocks, I don't trust 'em and don't own any. Anything that has a striker that cocks upon chambering and I have no way to lock that striker, makes me nervous. A 1911 cocked and locked makes me happy. A DA revolver makes me happy. A DA semi-auto with a thumb safety and a hammer makes me happy. I prefer handguns with controls on them.

    Just my feelings and opinion.
     
  23. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    rondog,

    what about DA/SA striker-fired auto with decocker?
     
  24. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    The only time I would ever promote carry on an empty chamber would be an older revolver that doesn't have a transfer bar safety. And it has been awhile since I have seen those.

    I used to carry on an empty chamber when I was new to it and very green around the gills about carrying concealed. It was on a DA/SA semi-auto and had an irrational fear that it would discharge in the holster, even on DA. So I did a little testing that really built my confidence. With an empty firearm of course I holstered it in all my holsters from various angles and even introduced some obstructions into the holster to see if the trigger was ever pulled enough to discharge the pistol. Never happened on DA.
     
  25. itsa pain

    itsa pain member

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    I think it is much better to carry an auto pistol with no round in the chamber being a lot of people are first time users and some guns have a lot of buttons and switches. if a grown man cannot rack a slide under pressure he would probably miss anyway if he had one up the spout and would need a grenade launcher. a revolver is much better for most people unless you are proven under fire with your weapon
     
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