againstthagrane
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why are hk's commonly referred to as the overpriced tactical pistol when sig's cost just as much and in some cases more?
HK vs. Sig :evil:
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Smaug
Member
Because HKs are plastic, and people think all plastic pistols should cost the same as a Glock. I like the soft recoil on HKs, as well as the nice trigger and low weight. Sig has a lot of those same nice things, but they're heavier.
CountGlockula
Member
Mercedes Bens vs. VW
Lexus vs. Toyota
Cadillac vs. Ford
Porsche vs. Audi
It falls into consumer economics.
Lexus vs. Toyota
Cadillac vs. Ford
Porsche vs. Audi
It falls into consumer economics.
Black Majik
Member
It's kind of funny, I find it ironic how the USP is usually always compared against SIG P-series. One's polymer, the other aluminum alloy frame.
But, I can see the justification to HKs price (I'm probably the only one), but a simple field strip will make it evident. The USP is simply a much more complex firearm than a standard Glock pistol. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other, that is subjective. However, look at the sights (metal vs. plastic), the recoil spring setup (metal vs plastic), and the interals. Overall a Glock pistol is a very simplistic design. It's cheap to buy, cheap to repair, and there are vast amounts of parts for it.
I personally believe the increased price for an HK over a Glock is justified.
But, I can see the justification to HKs price (I'm probably the only one), but a simple field strip will make it evident. The USP is simply a much more complex firearm than a standard Glock pistol. I'm not going to say that one is better than the other, that is subjective. However, look at the sights (metal vs. plastic), the recoil spring setup (metal vs plastic), and the interals. Overall a Glock pistol is a very simplistic design. It's cheap to buy, cheap to repair, and there are vast amounts of parts for it.
I personally believe the increased price for an HK over a Glock is justified.
I'll tell you why and after my experience this week with a nose in the air HK owner looking down at my GLOCK and CZ (typical HK owner attitude), I'll be brutally honest.
What are HKs really better at that warrants their absurd high cost?
Are HKs reliable? Sure but they are not the most reliable.
Are HKs dependable? Sure but they are not the most dependable.
Accurate? Same answer as the previous two.
Customer service perhaps? OMG!
Best looking? Found one category HK maybe can win.
Bottome line is there are too many good quality pistols out there for hundreds of dollars less that will do anything a HK pistol can and often do it better. That is why HK is seen as overpriced.
What are HKs really better at that warrants their absurd high cost?
Are HKs reliable? Sure but they are not the most reliable.
Are HKs dependable? Sure but they are not the most dependable.
Accurate? Same answer as the previous two.
Customer service perhaps? OMG!
Best looking? Found one category HK maybe can win.
Bottome line is there are too many good quality pistols out there for hundreds of dollars less that will do anything a HK pistol can and often do it better. That is why HK is seen as overpriced.
j1979
Member
Im switching from a G22 to a HK P30. Im quite anxtious to see the difference, or lack there of as far as the quality of parts and workmanship between the two.
Mike U.
Member
FWIW,
I had an interesting experience at the range with a Glock owner who told me his Glock was the best pistol on the market and I should trade in my USP for a Glock. Out of the clear blue sky no less! I was minding my own biz loading mags and this guy just looks down his nose and spouts off this tripe. Well, we traded pistols for awhile and it became immediately apparent this guy had never fired a USP before in his life. He was surprised at how little recoil he was feeling with my 230 gr. +P rounds and the inherent accuracy of the pistol. As he looked longingly at my USP he stated he still prefers his Glock.
To each his own I suppose. I'll be buying a Glock 20 in the future so I have no qualms about who made the gun as long as it fits my wants/needs.
Edited to add:
What originally brought me to the USP 45 was how it felt in my hand.
I'd tried every .45 ACP platform I could get my fingers around. The tried and true 1911 always felt "off" to me and I had one helluva tough time qualifying with it when I was in the USMC.
My dad had a chrome bodied w/pearl handles 1911 and he could literally shoot a dragonfly out of the air at 15 yards with it. I remember the first time he showed us this feat. "Watch that dragonfly boys!" BOOM! Nothing left but wings floating down to the ground. AMAZING...
Me? I could barely keep rounds on paper with it. That all changed when I got hold of the USP. It just feels right in my mangled right hand and I believe I could easily qual with it if I were still in the Corps.
Nothing wrong with a SIG. It's a very fine company that makes fine weapons. Can't go wrong with either an HK or a Sig. Buy the one that feels "right" in your hand.
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benderx4
Member
First off, I admit to being a HUGE HK fan. I was in the military for 24 years and have been a gun fan since I got my first Ruger 10/22. I have handled and shot a wide variety of weapons. Bought and sold a bunch, traded even more, and rented a couple dozen.
Well all was said and done, I was in love with the HK line of weapons. Nothing against the rest, these particular guns worked for me in terms of ergonomics, felt recoil, accuracy, reliability, grip feel, control placements, sight radius, etc.
Case in point: If you ever have the opportunity, take apart a HK P7 (no plastic here), and look at the internals. Talk about being over-engineered, the Germans outdid themselves with this amazing 9mm. Truly a work of art. No doubt, the likes of even John Browning would admire and respect the brilliance that went into the design of that weapon.
Take one apart and see for yourself!
As far as cost is concerned, you're kidding, right? Think about how many gentlemen on this fine forum have bought 1911s from Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, etc for anywhere between $1000 and $4000 PER GUN! Great guns for sure, but fairly large and heavy to hold 8 rounds of 45 acp.
My HK Mark 23 SOCOM cost me $1600 LNIB, holds 12+1 of 45acp, is slightly larger but lighter than a loaded 1911, and is guaranteed out to 30,000 rounds!! No break in period, no tweaking the trigger, feed ramp, ejector port, sights, etc. It just works - EVERY TIME! Is the trigger as good as the guns I mentioned? No, but pretty darn close.
In any case, that's my story and why I'm such an HK nut. Do I still love the trigger and feel of an old SW Model 65? Sure - nothing beats it! But for day in, and day out use, I love my HKs.
BTW, on a side note, other than my Mark 23 and P7M13, my Sig 229 Platinum Elite cost more than any of my other HKs. (And worth every dime!)
Well all was said and done, I was in love with the HK line of weapons. Nothing against the rest, these particular guns worked for me in terms of ergonomics, felt recoil, accuracy, reliability, grip feel, control placements, sight radius, etc.
Case in point: If you ever have the opportunity, take apart a HK P7 (no plastic here), and look at the internals. Talk about being over-engineered, the Germans outdid themselves with this amazing 9mm. Truly a work of art. No doubt, the likes of even John Browning would admire and respect the brilliance that went into the design of that weapon.
Take one apart and see for yourself!
As far as cost is concerned, you're kidding, right? Think about how many gentlemen on this fine forum have bought 1911s from Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson, etc for anywhere between $1000 and $4000 PER GUN! Great guns for sure, but fairly large and heavy to hold 8 rounds of 45 acp.
My HK Mark 23 SOCOM cost me $1600 LNIB, holds 12+1 of 45acp, is slightly larger but lighter than a loaded 1911, and is guaranteed out to 30,000 rounds!! No break in period, no tweaking the trigger, feed ramp, ejector port, sights, etc. It just works - EVERY TIME! Is the trigger as good as the guns I mentioned? No, but pretty darn close.
In any case, that's my story and why I'm such an HK nut. Do I still love the trigger and feel of an old SW Model 65? Sure - nothing beats it! But for day in, and day out use, I love my HKs.
BTW, on a side note, other than my Mark 23 and P7M13, my Sig 229 Platinum Elite cost more than any of my other HKs. (And worth every dime!)
I'm becoming a fan of HK too, but do you really think the HK Mk23 Socom is only "slightly larger" than a loaded 1911? Even without the suppressor it is bigger in every dimension...especially in width.
View this post on the hkpro forum.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86662&page=3
Here is a review of it.
http://www.dwsuk.co.uk/New_site/Other/mk23.htm
hkenvy91
Member
i currently own 2 hk's one compact and one tac, both in 45 and i love mine cause of fit /feel. the only auto's i will ever own!
The beauty of CHOICES !
I have owned an HK USP45 for many years. I have been very happy with the pistol, and it shoots better than I can make it shoot. I take it out and shoot it a lot, and in a variety of conditions and situations, and it has never been anything less than 100% reliable.
I would expect the same of the Sig P22x series pistols. It would be my second choice after the HK. When I was looking for a pistol, HK, Sig, Glock and Baretta were all on my list of guns to look at.
I personally have nothing against Glocks. I just never liked the grip feel and grip angle. Although the price was better than the HK. I was willing to shell out the extra $$$ for a pistol that felt comfortable and natural in my hand. The Sig lost out on magazine capacity (I wanted a .45), although I liked the way the P220 shot.
The great thing about the handgun market is that there are many, many choices. There probably isn't one gun that makes everyone happy. So everyone get to find what works best for them and spend their money accordingly.
I have owned an HK USP45 for many years. I have been very happy with the pistol, and it shoots better than I can make it shoot. I take it out and shoot it a lot, and in a variety of conditions and situations, and it has never been anything less than 100% reliable.
I would expect the same of the Sig P22x series pistols. It would be my second choice after the HK. When I was looking for a pistol, HK, Sig, Glock and Baretta were all on my list of guns to look at.
I personally have nothing against Glocks. I just never liked the grip feel and grip angle. Although the price was better than the HK. I was willing to shell out the extra $$$ for a pistol that felt comfortable and natural in my hand. The Sig lost out on magazine capacity (I wanted a .45), although I liked the way the P220 shot.
The great thing about the handgun market is that there are many, many choices. There probably isn't one gun that makes everyone happy. So everyone get to find what works best for them and spend their money accordingly.
Thernlund
Member
I like 'em both. I own both.
If forced to choose, I'd take the Sig. But it's a narrow margin.
Fortunately I don't have to choose.
-T.
If forced to choose, I'd take the Sig. But it's a narrow margin.
Fortunately I don't have to choose.
-T.
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HK for rifles, Sig for handguns in my personal universe.
As far as 'overpriced' some of it's a matter of accessories: factory (or OEM manufactured) magazines for the Sig are generally substantially cheaper.
These days with Sig's prices though I'm not sure how it works on a gun for gun basis - my last new Sig purchase was 3-4 years ago when the Navys appeared. At the time I was staggered by the cost, now I'm staggered at how much the equivalents now cost.
I shoot the 226 far better than the USP - trigger agrees with me, doesn't have the funky magazine release, and doesn't have a center of gravity shift like I hated on my USP 45.
Don't get me wrong, if I *had* to use a modern hi-cap .45 handgun, I'd buy another USP 45 in a heartbeat - it's the best tool in my hand for that job. But day to day it's my Sigs all the way.
As far as 'overpriced' some of it's a matter of accessories: factory (or OEM manufactured) magazines for the Sig are generally substantially cheaper.
These days with Sig's prices though I'm not sure how it works on a gun for gun basis - my last new Sig purchase was 3-4 years ago when the Navys appeared. At the time I was staggered by the cost, now I'm staggered at how much the equivalents now cost.
I shoot the 226 far better than the USP - trigger agrees with me, doesn't have the funky magazine release, and doesn't have a center of gravity shift like I hated on my USP 45.
Don't get me wrong, if I *had* to use a modern hi-cap .45 handgun, I'd buy another USP 45 in a heartbeat - it's the best tool in my hand for that job. But day to day it's my Sigs all the way.
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