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Home defense carbine: 9mm v. 223

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Balrog, Jul 29, 2013.

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  1. Balrog

    Balrog Member

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    Ok so for home defense only, inside the house, short ranges, which would be the better choice? a 9mm carbine such as the Beretta CX4 or just stick with the trusty old Colt 6920?
    Assume both are equipped the same with, with a red dot, light, and 30 round mags.

    The 223 prob gets the nod for effectiveness? but would the low recoil/low flash of 9mm make up for the difference?
     
  2. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Just my opinion but I would rather use a pistol caliber with a HP bullet than a high speed 223 inside the house.
     
  3. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    People seem to really get hung up on the tool. As somebody who has worked for a major metro PD any gun will get you home so to speak.

    You want terminal effectiveness get a 12 bore with 00 buck or slug.
    You want to fend off a clan of ninja then 30 round mags in an AR are great.

    At the end of the day a 6 shot .38 will most likely do you just fine assuming you know how to use it.

    So for your specifics probably the AR since lighter weight .223 tends to disintegrate going through drywall faster then 9mm. Course its louder and has more flash and the chances of having ANY long arm near by are much less then a pistol but whatryagonnado? You pick the tool and learn it and you will be fine.

    Hell don't rub another man's rhubarb, don't deal drugs, don't operate an illicit enterprise and don't flaunt your wealth and the chances of needing said arm is pretty nill.

    LowspeedHighDrag opinion so take for what it is worth.

    Take care, shoot safe.
     
  4. jbj

    jbj Member

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    All tests show that 223/5.56 has far less penetration on sheetrock than most common handgun rounds (55 gr vs 125-230grain).

    That said, and as much as I like long guns for defense, think about being on the phone with the PD while hoisting a rifle.
     
  5. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    Yeah I would also recommend the 9mm with hollow points it won't over penetrate as bad
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I would disagree.

    A high-velocity, relatively light weight (50 - 60 grain) .223 bullet is less likely to over-penetrate and kill a neighbor in the next house or apartment then a larger pistol bullet at much lower velocity.

    That's why SWAT teams have almost universally switched from 9mm sub-guns to .223 carbines for urban use.

    Much Less chance of over-penetration.
    And a MUCH greater chance of a one-shot stop then with a handgun caliber sub-gun.

    rc
     
  7. cslinger

    cslinger Member

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    Varmint grain weight .223 penetrate far less then most .9mm in almost all tests. That being said...itsa tad bit noisier with a bit of flash in low light. :D

    Everything is all about weighing pros and cons.
     
  8. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    We've had at least two large threads about this in the last week or so.

    Yes, software is better than hardware, and yes, any gun is better than none.

    BUT if you have the money for a Beretta carbine, you have the funds for a .223. The .223 is a much more decisive stopper while offering less penetration in structure. People who assume 9x19mm will penetrate less just don't understand bullet terminal ballistics, and should not advertise their lack of understanding.

    John
     
  9. tlr683

    tlr683 Member

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    Its the sound of you racking a round into your pump 12 gauge that screams home defense. And nothing beats a 12 gauge with a staggered buck shot and slug combination. Mossberg 500 20" barrel 8 round capacity.
     
  10. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Um.....NO. If racking a shotgun is so effective, why load it at all?

    There is no good reason to stagger loads. If you think you MUST have both kinds of ammo handy, use a sidesaddle with the other, and practice rapid loading from it. Or ger a KelTec KSG with twin magazines. When you shoot, you need to KNOW which load is up next. Pick the one that is most effective and stick to it.

    Listen to RC. It may sound counterintuitive, but good defensive 5.56 loads are far less likely to go through multiple barriers than pistol rounds.
     
  11. tlr683

    tlr683 Member

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    Look I love 223 round, it stops coyotes with no problem . But for home defence I vote against it. I work with military vets, and they have all told me stories about shooting people with the 556 or 9mm and they keep charging . So they would pick up ak's for the stopping power. But besides that im in California so I can't legally have 30rd mags. And to me for protecting my wife and son 8rds of 12ga. Is more fire power then 10rds of 223. Plus at 2 or 3am Im a little groggy eyed. But that's just me.
     
  12. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    The Colt 6920 is a much better choice for HD than any pistol caliber carbine for reasons already covered.

    The AR is 5.56 is also a better choice than a shotgun. However, tlr683 pulled me up short with his situation in California. The advantages of the AR outweigh those of the shotgun enough that I still want to choose the AR. But, being limited to a 10 round mag and a bullet button does negate a couple key features of the AR- superior capacity and rapid mag changes. In this case, the shotgun is easier to top off. Makes a guy want to build a featureless rifle and refurbish all those tired and worn preban mags
     
  13. Torian

    Torian Member

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    Entirely dependent on the TYPE of .223 / 5.56 ammo. M855 would absolutely over-penetrate...since many of us like this type of ammo...it is worth mentioning. If you are referring to something like PRVI 75 grain BTHP, then yes, I would agree with you.
     
  14. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    The number one factor in the effectiveness of any firearm is shot placement - so being able to put shots where you want them is the first priority. For some people, the flash and blast of .223 can be disconcerting even though the recoil is minimal. My first recommendation is to get some trigger time with both and see if you shoot one dramatically better.

    If you shoot both about the same, then I think the AR is the more effective tool for the reasons already stated.
     
  15. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    i have a old dcm m-1 carbine in very good condition that has been dead nuts reliable and sets in a corner ready for any invaders. eastbank.
     

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  16. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Taking muzzle flash and sound into account in my small house, I would never want to fire a 5.56 inside. Some will say to just pop on some hearing protection but I don't want to have to worry about that in a think fast situation.

    I chose a pistol because I believe something you can operate single handed is of supreme importance in a defensive situation.
     
  17. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    In order, I'd want a 12ga loaded with #1 Buck, a 9mm carbine, a rifle in 5.56

    My own reasoning for the 9mm carbine over the 5.56 is that IMO, generally speaking, an errant 9mm is going to go about 100 to 150 meters before it falls to Earth and the 5.56 can hypothetically go a lot longer distance...

    Just my thought.
     
  18. ejfalvo

    ejfalvo Member

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    I have a Beretta Storm in 45ACP to complement my Sig P220s. Shoots great, accurate. Only downside is it only holds 8 rounds, which, hopefully would be more than I need.
     
  19. avs11054

    avs11054 Member

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    6920 hands down. Better stopping power and less chance of over penetration if you are using ammo made for HD. And I wouldn't use a shotgun for the sole reason that joe biden says I should use a shot gun.
     
  20. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

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    This may be the worst possible thing in terms of the 4th rule: know your target and what's behind it. What's gonna be behind your target is going to be a wall. Now if it's concrete, fine. If it is just about anything else? Massive overpenetration and dead neighbors. And all that nonesense about the sound of the pump gun is just movie business. In a stressful situation, nobody is going to hear that.

    .223 with a 55gr hollowpoint or something frangible. I had some "Varmint Grenades" that somebody gave me along with a gun I bought.

    I am confining my comments to the OPs question "...carbine". Thus no comments from me about handguns.
     
  21. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    The silencer should already be mounted on the muzzle.
     
  22. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Was that an offer to buy me one? :p
     
  23. gotigers

    gotigers Member

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    Buckshot is great for effectiveness, but over penetrates which is bad for friendlies in the other room and can be difficult to move in close quarters.

    9mm is great for close quarters, but penetrates more walls than .223/5.56

    .223/5.56 with the right ammo has less wall penetration than either buckshot or 9mm, but a 16" rifle can be difficult to use in close quarters.

    All 3 are good HD weapons. Just choose one that fits your needs and train with it.

    My choice is a 10.5" 5.56 SBR with can. My stamp should be in any day for my SBR. Can coming end of year.

    Currently, i keep a 9mm with hi capacity mags close by and a 12ga moss 500 for more serious issues in the next room. My current 16" AR is ready, but more for SHTF.
     
  24. M1key

    M1key Member

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    If you are NOT concerned about shooting your neighbors (I am not), then a 9mm carbine will work fine. My Ruger PC9 loaded with Federal 115+P+ clocks over 1600 fps out of the carbine and is still much quieter than any pistol or 223 rifle.

    M
     
  25. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    I'd rather have a 5.56 than a 9x19. The 5.56 has lower risk of over penetration when using appropriate ammo. It also offers superior terminal ballistics. The 9x19 may have some advantage in less blast but I'd say its mostly theoretical. Suppressor a can also d a lot for that. Either one is likely to be adequate if the user is. However, I do think there is a reason that subguns are falling by the way side and M4 type weapons are.
     
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