Opinion: Don't Fall into the .45GAP

[WoofersInc]

Why is there always so much negativity towards certain ammo, guns, etc...
Calling something stupid or saying that there is no reason for it, just because "YOU" don't like it or have it doesn't make sense to me.
You have to remember, the more variations and the more choices people have, the better chance of someone finding a gun, caliber, etc that fits them.
Progress takes innovation. Would all of you prefer that people didn't take chances and try new ideas. We would still be shooting black powder guns if there weren't those risks and chances taken with guns and calibers. Not that some wouldn't mind that

 

[XDKingslayer]

Why is there always so much negativity towards certain ammo, guns, etc...

Because people fear what they don't understand and I'll bet my rediculous salary that not a single person here that has crapped on it know the first damn thing about the round.

Plus you screwing around with the ACP and the codgers around here just can't handle that.

It's a great round. It's ballistics are on par with ACP.

Everything is getting smaller. In every other walk of life, when something gets smaller and retains or surpasses the performance of it's predecessor, it's lauded as an accomplishment.

Unless that walk of life is the gun world which is chock full of people afraid of things they don't understand, unwilling to accept change, and will chastise everything they refuse to accept for one reason or another.

I could go on for days of examples. The .45 GAP, the Taurus PT-1911, the list goes on.

 

[mpmarty]

The 45 GAP was stillborn because it has absolutely no advantage over the 45 acp. If anything, it is a retrograde move from an accepted standard. Take a 45 acp case and shorten it a little bit, not too much now or it will never feed. Now since you have reduced the available powder space, you must raise pressure to achieve at +P pressures that which the 45acp achieves at standard pressures. Oops, we made the pressure higher so now we must give this new cartridge a thicker web which again reduces the available powder space and raises pressures again. Better make that brass REALLY thick just in front of the extractor groove as we don't want those ***holes on THR talking about smiles on our fired wonder brass. Gee whiz, the new wonder cartridge 45GAP (Glocks Alleged Perfection?) hasn't caught on like it should have, lets just make the standard 45acp pistols a tad smaller in the grip and see who wins. I can tell you who wins, Springfield, Taurus, Para Ordinance et al. Who loses? Anyone stuck with a 45 GAP:banghead:

 

[Rinspeed]

Why is there always so much negativity towards certain ammo, guns, etc...
Calling something stupid or saying that there is no reason for it, just because "YOU" don't like it or have it doesn't make sense to me.

It's called having an opinion. I think it's a stupid round that Gaston thought up to stroke his own ego nothing more. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I don't have to agree with it. If you want to make fun of me because I think it's a stupid round that's fine too. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go load some .357 Sig rounds.

 

[Ruger Redhawk]

I never have seen the point in the 45 GAP. With all the 45 ACP brass floating around that's one reason.There's not that much difference between the two cartridges. I personally can't see changing something that's worked well for almost a century.I don't see the GAP being around long.It came in and will slowly disappear.

 

[DougDubya]

I'm the same way to the .40 S&W that many here are toward the .45GAP.

It's aesthetics.

Sure, there are some advantages over the 10mm and the .45 ACP.

But, there's love for the older cartridges. MUCH more for the .45 ACP than for the 10mm, but there's love.

 

[RyanM]

My main reason for seeing no purpose to the .45 GAP is capacity.

G17 - 17+1
G22 - 15+1
G37 - 10+1

G19 - 15+1
G23 - 13+1
G38 - 8+1

G26 - 10+1
G27 - 9+1
G39 - 6+1

Given that the G19/23/32/38 series guns have about the same grip length/height as a 1911 with 7-rounders (about a 1/8" difference), you gain only a single round, compared to a much slimmer single stack gun. What's the point?

I like my G23, because it fits 14 rounds in the same size package. But only 9 (of basically the same power as .40) in a grip that wide and square? You'd have to be on drugs to pick something like that.

 

[Moonclip]

I think .45GAP will become like .41mag and 10mm if it's lucky.

It will become like .41action express and 9mm Federal if unlucky.

 

[Geronimo45]

The .45 GAP has a shorter OAL. This, I suppose, is good for those with smaller hands. But what's more, it makes manufacturing easier. When you put .45 ACP in a 9mm platform, the barrel's got to move forwards due to the .45's greater length. With the GAP, you just widen the magwell (if that), and no movement of parts is required. Put in your .45 barrel, springs, extractor, and you're good to go (in theory). It's a cartridge for manufacturers - so that they can branch out into other calibers easier, with less R&D involved.

 

[Ash]

"Because people fear what they don't understand and I'll bet my rediculous salary that not a single person here that has crapped on it know the first damn thing about the round."

Eh, well, the reason for its adoption was still-born. As you know the Springfield XD in .45ACP has virtually the same grip as the 45GAP Glocks. The design of the pistol, with its cavernous gap behind the magazine and the plastic-coated magazines is why the grip was too long, not the ACP's length. 45GAP therefore offers nothing that the ACP cannot do, and at the same pressures, do better. The 45GAP performs just fine, but in the end, its best performance is merely to duplicate ACP performance. The promised reduction in slide girth and weight on the Glocks never materialized and, interestingly enough, was glossed over pretty quickly.

And no matter how you slice that pie, the width of the grip cannot change, only the depth. In the end, the round failed to live up to its promise and of the almost orgasmic pronouncements of its biggest supporters.

It is, however, a competent, if very redundant, round and any GAP pistol is likely to be a good self-defense arm.

Ash

 

[XDKingslayer]

The 45GAP performs just fine, but in the end, its best performance is merely to duplicate ACP performance.

The GAP duplicates .45ACP +p performance.

Geronimo seems to understand it better than anyone though...And the only reason the GAP is more widely produced and chambered in more offerings is simply because of the exact same attitude shown by the gun world that is show here.

I think it's a wonderful round for what it was made for. It accomplished exactly that. It's a brilliant redesign of an old and out dated caliber.

 

[Ash]

Feelings hurt, eh? Don't worry too much if folks don't agree with you. It will stand or fall, though fall seems most likely. I fully understand the design and purpose, but discard the justification (as, you have noted, have many people). It seems like you agree with me, that the GAP merely duplicates the ACP.

Ash

 

[jimbob86]

To quote Col. Cooper.....

Glock has 're-invented the wheel', so to speak, and it isn't a very good rendition of the 'wheel' either.

...."What is it FOR? Why, to SELL, of course!"

And folks bought it, not because it is BETTER, but because it was NEW......

Marketing Plan: Show them something new. Show them something shiny. Anually. They will buy it, because it has never been different.

Forgive me for not having the latest, newest, bestest superduper bullet pooper, with all the latest, newest, bestest thinggummies and doodads on it. I'll stick with what I have.

 

[neviander]

It seems like more of a marketing move on Glock's part. If you've got your OWN cartridge, then you get all the credit. It seems there are several cartridges (rifle and pistol) out there that provide negligible differences, but claim to hold "superior" attributes. Different spin on an old yarn.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Marketing Plan: Show them something new. Show them something shiny. Anually. They will buy it, because it has never been different.

Doesn't say much for how we, the "mass consumers", are percieved by the firearms manufacturers, does it?

Shiny 'bobbles' and pretty 'trinkets' for the magpies! Sheesh!

 

[yhtomit]

"I could go on for days of examples. The .45 GAP, the Taurus PT-1911, the list goes on."

I have never fired a gun in .45GAP, but am not interested in owning one (unless its popularity soars, in which case I might reconsider!), mostly because of the network effects (how many companies make guns in the caliber?) and partly a) because I am a fan of other cartridges, each of which eats at my shekels and b) I like that .45ACP is a low-pressure round, for my faltering first steps into the world of reloading

So I don't hate the .45GAP, by any means, but I've seen no reason to think that it's for me

As to comments (years old, and repeated about all kinds of ammo) that it's "the answer to a question that no one asked," well, not really. The question that's been asked many times is "How can ammo be made similar or identical in certain traits, but which is in some way more pleasing in others?"

But where do you find all the negative opinions about the PT-1911? Most of what I've read has made me crave one, forthwith

Cheers,

timothy

 

[kgpcr]

If you cant hold a real .45 get a .40 or a 9mm. the GAP is a joke and will be dead soon

 

[neviander]

Yes, but not all purchasers of firearms are dutiful enough to post on THR, let alone have enough common sense to see through a marketing ploy.

 

[Wes Janson]

The GAP duplicates .45ACP +p performance.

Geronimo seems to understand it better than anyone though...And the only reason the GAP is more widely produced and chambered in more offerings is simply because of the exact same attitude shown by the gun world that is show here.

I think it's a wonderful round for what it was made for. It accomplished exactly that. It's a brilliant redesign of an old and out dated caliber.

There are precisely three relevant differences between GAP and ACP. GAP is shorter. GAP runs at higher pressures. And GAP is pricier. The key question implicitly asked by the entire industry is, does the first factor outweigh the second two? And the overwhelming answer has been "No."

Fact is, if your hands don't fit a 21 (and mine don't), you have an awful lot of other options that provide the same ballistics at a lower price, both in dollars and chamber pressures. The GAP only has one thing going for it, and as soon as you negate that size benefit it becomes utterly worthless.

 

[novaDAK]

The GAP duplicates .45ACP +p performance.

The GAP does not duplicate .45ACP +P performance. The GAP runs at pressures equal to the ACP +P, but duplicates standard pressure ACP.

.45ACP +P surpasses GAP performance.

 

[TestPilot]

The 45 GAP was stillborn because it has absolutely no advantage over the 45 acp. ...

It has amlost exactly the same ballistics and comes in a smaller package. How is that no advantage?

...If anything, it is a retrograde move from an accepted standard. Take a 45 acp case and shorten it a little bit, not too much now or it will never feed. Now since you have reduced the available powder space, you must raise pressure to achieve at +P pressures that which the 45acp achieves at standard pressures. Oops, we made the pressure higher so now we must give this new cartridge a thicker web which again reduces the available powder space and raises pressures again. Better make that brass REALLY thick just in front of the extractor groove as we don't want those ***holes on THR talking about smiles on our fired wonder brass. ...

Why is pressure so much of a problem? Even with raised pressure, it still operates under a lot less pressure than 40S&W or even a 9mm for that matter.

As you know the Springfield XD in .45ACP has virtually the same grip as the 45GAP Glocks. The design of the pistol, with its cavernous gap behind the magazine and the plastic-coated magazines is why the grip was too long, not the ACP's length. 45GAP therefore offers nothing that the ACP cannot do, and at the same pressures, do better. The 45GAP performs just fine, but in the end, its best performance is merely to duplicate ACP performance.

This is a problem with Glock's 45GAP pistol design, not 45GAP the ammo itself.

 

[Warren]

Maybe, just maybe the .45 GAP is exactly what someone is looking for in a cartridge.

This round in X-platform is what will get them over to our side. Nothing else will do. Will you haters badmouth it then? Someone comes to you looking for advice, they have heard of this GAP and want to know more for it seems perfect for them, what do you do?

Answer...

"It's stoopid!"

"Nobody asked that question!"

Or will you help them out?

The more calibers X the more platforms = a better chance of someone finding what they need.

It opens up the discipline to those that might have stayed away. .45 GAP, 327 Fed, 357 SIG, 41 Mag, 10MM etc are all valuable contributions to the hobby/sport/cause. They help us. Yet some folk would rather piss and moan instead of being happy that there is so much variety.

And remember all rounds, outside of military or police work are niche choices. Even the venerable .45 ACP and 9MM are niche choices when it comes to what INDIVIDUALS choose to use for their recreation or defensive needs.

No round is truly dead as long as there is one person for whom it is the best choice.

 

[Feanaro]

.45GAP suffers from the same problem all incremental improvements face if they aren't backwards compatible: why bother?

"It's smaller, sure. That's nice. Anything else? Wait, I gotta buy another gun to take advantage of that? And the ammunition is even more expensive than regular .45ACP? Oi vey."

 

[XDKingslayer]

And the ammunition is even more expensive than regular .45ACP?

If the ammo is more expensive than ACP then your dealer is bending you over a barrel. I have yet to pay more for GAP than ACP.

 

[XDKingslayer]

Feelings hurt, eh?

No, but I'm honestly getting sick and tired of people crapping on things they know nothing about. This place is the worst for it next to GlockTalk.

How can anyone form an opinion on something they know nothing about and expect to be taken seriously.

If it was such a bad round, why are so many law enforcement agencies going to it instead of ACP? Why did the Pa State Police move to GAP and not ACP. Why did the agency here go to GAP instead of ACP?