Hoodie at a Pawn Shop

[Double Naught Spy]

I wear hoodies in cool weather and hoodie t-shirts in warm weather...anything to help keep the sun off me regardless of the time of year and to stay warm in the winter.

 

[rondog]

I wear hoodies too, and I'm a 59 y.o. white guy with a gray beard. I just like to be warm when it's chilly, my old bones and hide don't like the cold. The pockets keep my arthritic hands warm too. But I always pull off the hood when I enter someplace too.

And yeah, there's usually an Officers Model 1911 underneath too.....

 

[jamesinalaska]

"Oh, BTW, been 10 years since I went to a dentist. They x-ray'ed my whole set of teeth (I have 'em all) and guess what? Not one cavity! My wife had appt. at same time and she had 4 of 'em!"



Yes, Yes, Yes. You've mentioned that several times. Congratulations.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I wear hoodies during cool/cold weather and around these parts everyone wears them. They don't look overtly "gangster" at all unless the wearer has some obnoxious oversized one with thug style writing on it and especially if it's pulled up over the head indoors!

 

[BigBL87]

I think its funny that so many of you see a hoodie as "thug" apparel. Its a standard item here. My grandma wears one. She is not "gangsta".

Its not the clothing choice that was suspicious, it was him covering his face.

I don't see it as a thug thing either, I own plenty of them although I will say I don't wear them much anymore. I prefer a button up shirt plus a Carhartt jacket over a hoodie these days, just fits my "look" better.

That being said, there are certain ways that a hoodie can be worn that will make me suspicious/more alert.

 

[rcmodel]

Cooldill
Same here.

A hooded sweatshirt, or hooded coat has been my standard garb here in Kansas winters since I was a little boy 70 years ago.

I don't buy winter clothing without hoods.

But I don't wear them in summer heat, or even 'hood up' inside stores and restaurants.

Ever wonder why BGs were sometimes called hoods for 100's of years?

BECAUSE THEY COVER THIER HEADS WITH HOODS SO NOBODY CAN RECOGNIZE THEM!!

There is a huge difference between winter comfort, and summer inside store gang-banging & robbery!!!

I can tell a Kansas farmer with a hood, from a 'hood' two blocks away!!!

One I watch carefully, the other I don't.

No matter what color they are.

rc

 

[coloradokevin]

Wearing a hoodie isn't weird. Wearing sunglasses isn't strange. Wearing both of these (hood up and sunglasses on) when walking into a store is definitely weird, especially when it's warm out, or dark outside. Profiling behavior is the difference between recognizing this potential threat and missing it entirely.

People often talk about profiling in a negative context, mostly because they associate it with the idea of picking someone out based solely on their race.

In reality, anyone who has any degree of situational awareness is profiling every single day (even if subconsciously). You profile people based on their age, their gender, their location, their clothing, their behavior (a big one), their attitude, mannerisms, and so on. You profile people on how they react to a minor stimulus, and you profile them based on their posture. You can profile their car, and you can profile them based on behavior relative to the normal behavior you might see in the neighborhood you're currently in.

In this case the OP did a great job of immediately keying in on a potential threat. I'd have keyed on that behavior, too.

You can even make a gun owning example out of profiling, to see how different a situation might seem based on circumstances:

1) a male in his mid-20's is seen wearing a holstered Glock as he walks along the fence line of a farm on a county road out in the sticks. He's wearing jeans, work boots, a flannel shirt, and a cowboy hat. He looks like he might be doing farm work.

2) a male in his mid-20's is seen outside of a liquor store just before closing, and well after midnight. The person is wearing clothing consistent with that of gang members in the area. He looks nervous, and keeps looking around for cameras. He also seems intent on not being seen by other customers. He has a Glock sticking out of his waistband, not in a holster.

Obviously most of us would see situation #1 as "normal" and #2 as "not normal". That's the profiling angle… a hoodie and sunglasses isn't strange attire, until you wear your hood up and keep your sunglasses on as you walk into a pawn shop on a warm summer night!

 

[1911 guy]

Bingo!

Profiling, properly applied, has nothing to do with race or gender. It has everything to do with recognizing what is normal and what is not. Unfortunately, some have used it both as an excuse for their bigotry and on the flip side cried wolf as a crutch for their malfeasance.

Two guys wearing thaubs, speaking arabic and carrying lots of electronic equipment? In Idaho, that's out of the ordinary. In Detroit, we'd probably all assume they were repair techs.

It's all about context.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I wear hoodies three out of four seasons here in Michigan, and even during the summer months have one stashed in the car because the weather is just so random.

The article of clothing itself has never been an issue. The fashion of some folks is what initially pings my radar, sagging pants, bulky or oversized clothes, etc. But it's their demeanor and reaction to confrontation that puts me on alert status, or not. Like the OP, it's not so much that the guy was wearing a hoodie and sun glasses, but that he refused to remove them once asked by the staff. His course of action as described would have alerted me to the possibility that he was either going to, or planning a later date, to rob the place.

If he was conspicuous enough to draw the attention of the staff, he'll be remembered if the place does get robbed. Hopefully the staff made a notation about the incident for future reference.

 

[jcwit]

I shop at pawn shops regularly, but I do know for a fact that those who pawn items usually aren't the higher class of folks out there.

 

[TimSr]

I think its funny that so many of you see a hoodie as "thug" apparel. Its a standard item here. My grandma wears one. She is not "gangsta".

Its not the clothing choice that was suspicious, it was him covering his face.

Not everyone who wears a hoodie is gangsta, but evrybody who is gansta wears a hoodie.

It's not the garment, but rather how and under what circumstnces it is being worn. When a person appears to be concealing their identity, especially indoors in a place of business, I am suspicious.

Many in Ohio wear ski masks in the winter, but years ago my college buddy learned that if you enter a convenience store at night with it still on, the clerk may push the silent alarm button.

 

[wojownik]

I found it a bit strange that a young man was walking the lot of the local Walmart last night with a hoodie pulled up over his head in 90 degree weather..as a retired police officer, he became a immediate blip on my personal radar ..on another level the term hoodie started as a gang term and I find it offensive that the NRA and other pro-gun organizations use the criminal based term when selling their hooded sweatshirts.

The wearing of hoodies last year became so prevalent in my area - regardless of affluence, race, gender - that the radar gets a bit crowded by blips. But it has receded a bit (even before the 90F weather hit). The relevant "blips" come with a bit more context - the sunglasses in the OP's example, the refusal to take off the hood when asked. Body language says a lot.

But the mere wearing of a hoodie is at best a tiny blip, unless the wearer has other markers (acting furtive or suspiciously, other concealing clothing (sunglasses, gloves).

BTW, I'm not so sure the term "hoodie" is a gang term. First I heard it was in the 1980s, suburban NY and Boston. Never heard it downtown back then. The word went mainstream in the 1990s.

If you're really a word geek, or have Irish relatives, "hoodie" is another name for the hooded crow. Perhaps that's the link - Irish --> Boston/NY --> hooded sweatshirt. Maybe just a coincidence.

So, I find it offensive that people think this is a criminal based term when its was a suburban mom-ism, or ornithological reference. j/k

 

[Blue Thunder]

Also along with the Hoodies and Sunglasses are the really stupidly placed surveillance cameras that get really good shots of the tops of the hoodies and caps on the perps. Sooner or later the security folks will get up to current with cameras at face height on the door pillars where you enter/exit the store. A few banks in my area have installed but none of the Stop and Robs......Yes I go to condition yellow when I see someone with a hoodie and sunglasses in 85 degree weather and yes I profile people I meet, along with the old saying of "Be Polite, Be Professional, but have a plan to kill everyone I meet".

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I shop at pawn shops regularly, but I do know for a fact that those who pawn items usually aren't the higher class of folks out there.

LOL, we owned pawn shops for 25 years. I can tell you for a fact that many of those who pawn items are higher quality people than many of the "higher class" folks out there.

Less fortunate people finance through pawn shops like wealthy (higher class) people do through banks. There is trash at all levels of society and good people at all levels. Class has nothing to do with the quality of the person.

 

[jcwit]

LOL, we owned pawn shops for 25 years. I can tell you for a fact that many of those who pawn items are higher quality people than many of the "higher class" folks out there.

Less fortunate people finance through pawn shops like wealthy (higher class) people do through banks. There is trash at all levels of society and good people at all levels. Class has nothing to do with the quality of the person.

Not true here where I live, and that's a fact!

 

[LemmyCaution]

I shop at pawn shops regularly, but I do know for a fact that those who pawn items usually aren't the higher class of folks out there.

The 'higher class' of folks out there typically feel exactly that way about people who have the temerity to carry weapons for their own defense. Really, it's so very déclassé. Doesn't one simply contract a private security contractor for such things?

I mean, read a David Frum op-ed on gun control sometime.

We don't do ourselves a great service by disparaging others who are closer to our social station than those to whom we unfairly compare them.

 

[jcwit]

We don't do ourselves a great service by disparaging others who are closer to our social station than those to whom we unfairly compare them.

When the bumpers are broken, and the cars are a hunk of rust with obviously in need of repair, this is what the parking lot is full of.

The folks are dressed in rags, and they smell, and not with perfume either.

They are talking in some language that is a cross of English and who knows what?

And it's clearly obvious they are on welfare & snap.

And you're telling me it's my problem for looking down on them????????????
Think again!

 

[LemmyCaution]

And you're telling me it's my problem for looking down on them????????????

If I were in the business of telling you what your problem is, the above would not be it.

Let's drop this, as we're pretty far off-topic, and your reading comprehension skills aren't up for any sort of useful debate on this particular digression.

 

[oneounceload]

Around here the young 'uns wear wool watch caps all summer. All. Freaking. Summer. There's a guy that I work with that wears one on the line in the kitchen where it's 100 F plus all the time.

What keeps you warm in winter keeps you cool in summer - the insulation properties work both ways. A friend of mine used to pick cotton when he was a youngster. To this day he will wear an insulated vest when shooting out here in the hot FL sun.

As to the hoodie - sounds like he was "checking things out", and not in a good way.

 

[jcwit]

Be specific as to just what my problem is regarding reading comprehension skills.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

While I own and wear hoodies I am cautious about folks wearing them with dark sunglasses from April through Oct here in Texas. I also take off my hood off before going into places of business. You were right in your observations and actions Deaf.

 

[mgmorden]

What keeps you warm in winter keeps you cool in summer - the insulation properties work both ways. A friend of mine used to pick cotton when he was a youngster. To this day he will wear an insulated vest when shooting out here in the hot FL sun.

The human body is (on average) 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless the outside temperature is in excess of that you don't WANT insulation - you're not trying to keep heat out - you need to be able to dissipate your own body heat.

That's why you sweat when you're hot - liquid is a good CONDUCTOR of heat, and conduction, not insulation, is what you need when you're hot.

As to the hoodie - unsure. A lot of people wear them with no ill intent, and I tend to err on the side of MOST people not being up to anything nefarious. If the weather was "nice" (ie, weather in the 70's) I wouldn't be too alarmed. If it was 90+ outside then it does seem awfully odd.

I tend to wear a ball cap pretty much everywhere (except work). If I go to a pawn shop I generally leave it on even though the sign outside says no hats or sunglasses. I've never had anywhere ask that I remove the hat.

 

[Drail]

My bank also has a sign asking me to remove my hat and sunglasses. I just ignore the sign and the protests of any clerks who try to enforce it. They gave it up after a while. The sign is still there though.

 

[shiftyer1]

I've worked in pawnshops almost 15 years, robbed once, my wife was robbed once also.....I prefer to see your face when you enter my store..........and for petes sake, PLEASE pay attention to how you carry your firearm into the store when your pawning it!!!!!

As for the quality of the customers, I can't really make that judgement. I can tell you that I have customers that live in boxes and I have customers that are pretty well off. Some of the ones in boxes have better credit with me than the ones driving Mercedes......

Some times you just need an extra couple bucks quick.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The human body is (on average) 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless the outside temperature is in excess of that you don't WANT insulation - you're not trying to keep heat out - you need to be able to dissipate your own body heat.

That's why you sweat when you're hot - liquid is a good CONDUCTOR of heat, and conduction, not insulation, is what you need when you're hot.

Insulation has many purposes, one of which can be protection from the radiant heat of the sun. You still get to sweat and the sweat still evaporates and you are still cooled whilst being shaded from the sun.