Hostage situation - shoot or not?

[apollosmith]

Here's my nightmare situation (and by nightmare, I mean that literally - that's why I'm posting at 1am).

Your wife is being held by gunpoint. Her body is a shield for the bad guys center of mass. You have a clean head shot and can easily hit him in the eye ball, but his gun is pointed at her head.

Do you take the shot? If so, what's the likelihood that he will pull the trigger before or after he's dead?

I don't have a right answer, but I think I'm one to prefer having the outcome in my own hands than in the hands of the bad guy - I'd shoot.

 

[Regolith]

That's a sticky situation, and I'd say it'd depend entirely on your own confidence and training.

If you have trained for and are confident that you can take the shot, do it. If not....then it becomes much more complicated.

Its hard to say what I would do, as I have not trained for such events. I probably wouldn't take the shot because I couldn't be sure I'd hit the BG and not the hostage.

Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered why, in that situations, the hostage just doesn't let their legs fold and fall to the ground, exposing more of the BG, giving the GG's a better shot at taking him out. I know in some situations, if the hostage is small and the BG is fairly strong, that might not be an option, but if the BG isn't holding on to the hostage very tightly, it might work. But the hostage would have to have thought about this ahead of time (which is very rare) and remained calm enough to understand when doing so would provide the greatest chance of not getting shot themselves...

 

[woodybrighton]

good excuse to buy more ammo and then get down the range

 

[FieroCDSP]

It depends on the range and stress level, but at least on the calm, cool range, I can group reasonably well out to 15ft, maybe a touch farther. Given the choice of waiting for the BG to shoot the hostage and taking the shot with a mid to low certainty of hit, I'd probably still take the shot. That's a good time to be up to date with whatever God you believe in.

As for why hostages don't help, mostly dramatics in movies. IRL, fear paralyzes. Also the sheep mentality is deeply engrained. You can't believe anything a nut-job that takes a hostage says, so it's better to fight and die than just die, IMO. Even a small chance of success is better than simply handing your life over.

 

[GRIZ22]

You have a clean head shot and can easily hit him in the eye ball

good excuse to buy more ammo and then get down the range

This is more psychological conditioning question than a markmanship question. It takes a very high level of conditioning to take the shot no matter who the hostage is.

It's one thing to say you'd take the shot if you were a well trained SWAT or Delta operator and the hostage isn't someone you are emotionally involved with. If your wife, husband, or child is the hostage it's a different matter.

I'm not saying don't take the shot but you really need to be able to surpress your emotions in a situation like this.

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

<nonsense deleted>

 

[foghornl]

<nonsense deleted>

My response...close the distance on the BG until the muzzle of my .45 looks like a 40MM Bofors cannon...then speak codeword to Mrs. Foggy, she replies and 2 seconds later buckles knees...

 

[Erik]

"Do you take the shot?"

Only if I were out of options and time. I'd prefer to wait for a the gun to stray off target, if possible, or some other improvement in the circumstance.

 

[Noxx]

A question I bet a lot of us have given some thought to, no thanks of course to Hollywood.

While I consider the situation almost impossibly unlikely to occur, I have to say that if it did go down like that, I'd have to take the shot. If you don't take it the odds are very good that both of you end up dead while the BG drives your car away.

 

[40SW]

Impossible to answer with certainty. Every situation that is so highly ridden with stress is ultimatly very unique with its own subset of variables. The best and the most accurate answer is that you will not know until you are actually in the situation. Anyone who claims otherwise and tries to give you a "prescribed" answer is either showing off or speaking out of the westbound end of a eastbound horse.

 

[oobray]

I can answer with a little experience on two fronts.

1) I know that a well placed shot to the frontal lobe of the brain will immediatly render the BG useless and firearm discharge is really unlikely. (<-- known from many years as a paramedic)

2) I also know from playing a BG while simunitions training with the US Marshals that when you're hit, you do not have an automatic response to shoot the hostage. I was a hostage taker, with a loaded sim gun pointed right at the hostages head. One of the US Marshals shot me in the exposed portion of my arm and it spun me around like a top, and I had no inclination to shoot.

Hope that helps

 

[Riz58]

I have informed my family that there is no way they are leaving in a car with a hostage taker - that will almost guarantee their death according to statistics.

We have worked out a code-word. When they hear me state the code-word - a word that would normally be used in that situation, they immediately go limp and become dead weight.

We have practiced this, and even if the BG is anticipating the drop, there is not much he can do. The instant they start to drop, I shoot. (That is the plan anyway.)

We have practiced using fake "guns", fake knives, and choke holds. The choke holds are the most difficult, but may be the less immediately threatening.

Food for thought.

 

[Phelptwan]

I'd prefer to circle and hope they move the gun from the hostage (like a nice obnoxious room sweep) or point the gun at me instead of the hostage (not that I relish the idea of having a gun pointed at me...but the whole stay back or I'll shoot attitude gives you an opening). I'm also one to believe that this situation has a very small possibility of ever happening.

 

[ilbob]

I think it depends on a lot of variables that are not stated in the OP.

If there is an intent for the BG to take the hostage with him, then your best bet may be to shoot. The chance of a hostage surviving being kidnapped is low enough that it is a good choice.

I don't think you can depend on code words, or the hostage going limp. In this kind of situation, people are not thinking clearly, especially the hostage. The GG may not be thinking all that well either, and might not recall the code word, and be started when the hostage goes limp, leaving both himself and the hostage vulnerable.

If the cops are on the way and will be there shortly, and the BG is not trying to take the hostage away, maybe waiting for the cops is the thing to do.

If the cops are not coming, you almost have to shoot, even if the BG is not immediately planning on kidnapping the hostage.

 

[Obiwan]

Shoot the hostage

 

[Zoogster]

There is a chance that the nerves of the guy will cause his gun to discharge when he is struck even if it is fatal. Then again nothing could happen. Many bodies go into a little siezure having spasms and twitches immediately after being fataly struck in the CNS, others do not. Even if you cut the head off something the body can have little siezures for a time being, so a bullet is definately not a sure thing. Vermin I kill with head shots have immediate spasms all the time. I even had one jump 3 feet in the air and land dead and still.

That said I would take the shot because a guy willing to do that is not going to get any nicer to you or your wife once he is the only one armed, and his demand is likely that you cease to resist and give up your weapon. So your real option is whether you trust this guy as the only one armed, and that he won't just kill you anyways, rape and/or kill your wife, and if any children are present make a favorable choice in thier fate as well, or that you trust your aim more than him.

However I think this is a scenario based on movies. In real life I think the BG is going to point the gun at you and shoot instead of some suspenseful cinematic drama. Then you will be exchanging fire while he uses them as a shield rather than taking a precision shot.

 

[shadowalker]

It greatly depends on the situation, and confidence in the shot. In that situation if an acceptable shot presents itself I'd take it, in any case I will NOT allow anyone in my family to be moved to a secondary location and I'm not giving up my weapon.

If I can safely hold him until the police arrive I'd either wait for them to do so or for a better shot.

When I was younger my mom told all of us if someone tried to take us to create an opportunity to take a shot because she was taking one whether we did or not.

 

[Blackbeard]

All the more reason not to present your gun until it's shootin' time. BG isn't likely to take a shield unless he knows you're armed.

 

[vynx]

IF you are positive or if I was positive I would not miss then I would take the shot.

As to why more hostages don't let themselves fall to the ground - well, I imagine they believe the bad guy will shoot them as they fall.

If they did drop down the chest shot is not a guaranteed one shot stop and the BG may still kill them.

I think the head shot is better IF you can make it (or if you have been married long enough).

 

[QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW]

depending on training of the person involved would determin i think wether to shoot or not.

for myself i cannot say for sure what i would do. if i had a clean shot and not to far of a distance i would shoot his hand, hope he let go of my wife then unload a clip into center mass.

then beat him with my gun...

 

[Stretchman]

<nonsense deleted>

 

[TwitchALot]

Short of confidence in ability, the only reasonable option would be to shoot only if he started to move his weapon toward you. A hostage taker takes a hostage because he believes he can protect himself by doing so, so odds are, if he hasn't shot the hostage yet, he's probably not going to unless you do something. Take the time and be ready- if he tries to point the weapon at you, you MUST take the shot, whether you believe you can or not.

Obviously, if you have confidence in your ability to make that shot, go ahead and take it. But if you don't, what I said above is the point where you MUST shoot, regardless of whether you think you can make it or not. There is no option at that point.

 

[Zak Smith]

Develop superior shooting skills at small targets and on the move.
Your your capabilties and limitations.
Decide to act - a good plan executed immediately is better than a great plan "tomorrow."
Remember OODA. Communcating with a BG often does not help "the fight."
Shoot lots of force on force.

............... Larger version of above photo.

 

[Crunker1337]

I'd take the shot, unless I had real reason to believe he or she would leave the other person alone if I was able to do something else.

 

[sixgunner455]

You can't control what that person chooses to do or not do unless you put a round through his cranium, removing choice from him permanently. That is the only way to ensure that he does not hurt his hostage. There is no other "good outcome" choice here.

I read once of a man who faced this same choice. Two couples out on the town together. Two bad guys attacked them, grabbing the women as hostages to their demands -- sex, money, don't remember what it was. His wife was held by a gunman, gun to her head. The other bad guy held the other woman around the body and held a knife to her. Husband of the woman being held by the gunman had a j-frame .38, as did his buddy. The gunman took one round through the head, the other four through the body.

Guess whose body took the four body shots first? She died a couple of days later. The guy with the knife went down, IIRC, from a couple of hits, and the other woman took a slight cut.

I don't know if I could live with myself. But the gunman left him no choice. None. His training and practice were not up to what was needed when he needed it.

I can make that shot with my 9mm. I know it, I've done it in force-on-force, shoot/no-shoots, and paper target training. I'm not sure I can make it, on demand, with my 642. So I guess my training and practice aren't up to par either, at least with the gun I am more likely to be carrying.

Kind of backwards, really.