House approves National ID card

[DRZinn]

Ideally, that police officer doesn't pull anyone over until they have done something dangerous. Then they can see A) that driver is licensed or B) that driver is not licensed AND NOTHING MORE and act accordingly. However, not being licensed in itself should be punishable by nothing more than a (very) small fine.

 

[cracked butt]

Then they can see A) that driver is licensed or B) that driver is not licensed AND NOTHING MORE and act accordingly

How does a patrol officer determine the true identity of someone he pulls over, and whether that person has not lost his right to drive if the person does not have a license? Should the officer A) let the person go with out any confimation of their identity B) require the person to pay the fine on the spot or C) detain the person until they can prove who they are?

A) =anarchy
B) =corruption
C) =?

Also, what if a person is pulled over driving a tanker full of toxic waste without a license and given a small fine for not having a license and let about their merry way? Are you ok with this?

 

[DRZinn]

How does a patrol officer determine the true identity of someone he pulls over, and whether that person has not lost his right to drive if the person does not have a license?

As you should have noticed by now, I never advocated eliminating licenses.

Also, what if a person is pulled over driving a tanker full of toxic waste without a license and given a small fine for not having a license and let about their merry way? Are you ok with this?

Pretty much, as long as he's driving safely.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

I've missed this thread grow since I was working all weekend and boy am I behind. Ok where to begin....

First of all just because the roads are public does not mean that you own them and can do whatever you want on them. Public parks have closing times, public librarys close, etc. Secondly, the licensing procedure in most states if not very difficult and in order to lose your license you need to do some pretty messed up things. So while driving is not a right, it certainly is not that hard to do.

How did I know that was gonna come up? Like I said, not an option if I want to advance anywhere in the world. I've worked fast-food. I didn't like it.

It certainly IS an option, it's just not one that you find all that appealing. There are all kinds of public transportation available from buses, trains, to taxis. You say you don't live in a city, well nothing is stopping you from moving there, you just choose not to. There is nothing forcing you to drive anywhere. As much as you, or even I, would not be able to deal without driving.....it's possible, just not one that you like.

Give up yet Dbl0Kevin?

Excellent posts and points. However, you'll just never concince the conspiracy nuts that there really is no diabolical plot.

Not yet......but it's not looking too good.

 

[DRZinn]

It certainly IS an option, it's just not one that you find all that appealing. There are all kinds of public transportation available from buses, trains, to taxis.

There are very few well-paying jobs that I would be able to get to by public transportation.

You say you don't live in a city, well nothing is stopping you from moving there, you just choose not to.

Get real, will ya? Remember we're talking about someone with very little money. And you expect this person to just move? It costs a lot of money to move even a little bit of household goods without a car. And anyway, even if it's possible it's something the person is being forced to do because he isn't allowed the right of free movement anyway!

Bottome line - since there is no other option than to use a government road, we can only call that a right. And as for driving, maybe you wouldn't call being allowed to get ahead a right, but I would.

 

[cracked butt]

Quote:
Also, what if a person is pulled over driving a tanker full of toxic waste without a license and given a small fine for not having a license and let about their merry way? Are you ok with this?
Pretty much, as long as he's driving safely.

You do realize that there is a whole lot more to hauling hazardous materials than just not driving like a yahoo, right?

By the same token, would you go to an unlicensed surgeon to have a triple bypass done? How about an unlicensed dentist or even stock broker? All of these people have a right to earn a living too.

 

[DRZinn]

You do realize that there is a whole lot more to hauling hazardous materials than just not driving like a yahoo, right?

You do realize that I don't depend on the government to tell me what's involved in driving hazardous materials, don't you?

would you go to an unlicensed surgeon to have a triple bypass done? How about an unlicensed dentist or even stock broker?

Yep. If by unlicensed you mean un(government-issued)licensed. See, if the government kept their hands out there would still be a licensing procedure. You'd go to a "Harvard-Medical-School-approved" heart surgeon, maybe.

See how we don't need the nanny state? Nah, didn't think so.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

W goes to work on public transportation. He doesn't need a DL. I further bet he doesn't stand in line to get his biometric ID implanted like the rest of us will.

 

[DRZinn]

W goes to work on public transportation.

No he doesn't. And what does that have to do with the discussion anway? Geez, you Bush-bashers are getting so bad you throw in a quick jab even when it's completely irrelevant!

 

[FNFiveSeven]

C'mon, we can do better!

Why stop with an ID issued only by the USA... surely higher is better, let's get working on the worldwide ID card. Obviously, the message is that the whole USA is one big happy family (Massachusetts, Wyoming... it's all the same, right), why can't the whole world just bow down to the new mandatory issue UN ID card? Sounds good to me.

When are the morons of this world going to realize that their unending efforts to end terrorism are futile? War on terror ... you might as well declare war on "evil" and "bad intentions." C'mon... terrorism isn't going anywhere, national ID doesn't matter, the overly funded Dept. of homeland security doesn't matter, wake up! Those who trade liberty for personal safety make me sick. :banghead:

 

[roo_ster]

Dbl0Kevin wrote:

Driving clearly IS a privilege and not a right.

What's that noise? I can't tell if it's the sound of sheep bleating or the tick-tick-ticking & murmurring of Winston Smith revising history for the masses to consume after their morning constitutional.

It is as absurd as someone insisting one needed a license to ride a horse or guide a wagon & draft animal along one of the early taxpayer-financed roads in the late 18th & 19th centuries.

Old Dog wrote:

The data on all of us is out there. Of course, the government wants to be able to use some of it. Is that evil?

Yes. Fed.gov deserves to know, once every ten years, that I am a citizen occupying a particular state. That's all.

cracked butt wrote:

By the same token, would you go to an unlicensed surgeon to have a triple bypass done? How about an unlicensed dentist or even stock broker? All of these people have a right to earn a living too.

I was cut on by a doc unlicensed to practice in any state of the union. I received this grand privelidge courtesy of the US Army on federal property (Ft Benning, GA). See, the .gov doesn't have follow the rules it imposes on the rest of us.

 

[cuate]

National ID Card

I doan got to show you no stinkin' papers! My Texas Drivers License, My SS card, and my permit to carry a pistola is sufficient! Would you licka to seea my Glock!

 

[roo_ster]

Double Post

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Mr. Zinn, how about you gimme a break.

Geez, you Bush-bashers are getting so bad you throw in a quick jab even when it's completely irrelevant!

Who do you think is in charge of this national ID thingy. Rosie Odonnell?

 

[Old Dog]

Well, Blackrazor ...

Guess you can count me in as one of the "morons." I've spent almost two years away from my family, away from this country, usually under less than pleasant conditions, working against terrorism.

When are the morons of this world going to realize that their unending efforts to end terrorism are futile?

Your comments now become insulting. I don't for one moment believe my efforts, or the efforts of my friends who were with me, were futile.

Those who trade liberty for personal safety make me sick.

Tell us again how standardizing driver license data nationwide is trading liberty for personal safety?

 

[DRZinn]

Much as I hate to count a hit against me, I'll admit I got so sidetracked from the original subject of the thread that I thought

W goes to work on public transportation. He doesn't need a DL. I further bet he doesn't stand in line to get his biometric ID implanted like the rest of us will.

Was actually a gratuitous off-topic jab at Bush. Sorry.

For the record, I don't mind a Bush-bash if it's justified, and that one was, but I thought it was just thrown in for the h*** of it, so I counterattacked.

 

[cracked butt]

You do realize that I don't depend on the government to tell me what's involved in driving hazardous materials, don't you?

Then its obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

Mr. Zinn, Thanks, yer a good feller.

 

[brian roberts]

Id...

i wonder what they will do about state-citizens(non-US citizens, just Americans, natural-born citizens ) who have no ss#, therefor no gov't-approved ID, & can't take same??? it'll be interesting....

 

[DRZinn]

Then its obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Explain yourself. Why must the state be the arbiter of the proper way to do thing?

 

[cracked butt]

So you wouldn't mind a migrant worker who is getting $3 an hour parking a tanker full of a poisonous and explosive gas in front of your home while he walks down to the end of the street to buy a pack of smokes because government regulation is just plain silly?

 

[DRZinn]

That depends. Is the stuff gonna blow up just sitting there?

 

[cracked butt]

That depends. Is the stuff gonna blow up just sitting there?

Who's guarding the truck from those who might be able to utilize the potential destructiveness of the load by tampering or stealing the truck?
Whats to keep the untrained unregulated driver from walking back to the truck with a lit cigarette in his mouth, and pitching it under the truck to the curb before hopping in?

 

[Bruce H]

Boy what a non event to have a hissy over. Us holders of Comercial Drivers Licenses have been under this set of rules since their inseption. None of us are the worse for wear. This isn't so much about liberty and freedom is who is here that isn't supposed to be. It almost looks like some that are here illegally post here. Art is right, times change and there is nothing more constant.

 

[DRZinn]

Try to understand this:

LIFE IS DANGEROUS. I DON'T NEED THE GOVERNMENT TO MINIMIZE THAT DANGER.

Clear enough?